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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    I really think blizzard should add zhevra hoofs to their shop. People would buy them.
    Why are you so stuck on this one thing? lol. Its like 99% of your posts on this topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    The community changed massively since classic.

    Today i expect people to sell dungeonruns as like Onyxia prequest runs.

    For only 500g.

    In the old days people did not sell runs.
    Um you never played vanilla then. I ran a guild through all of Vanilla. We sold MC / BWL runs like it was going out of style lol.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    Um you never played vanilla then. I ran a guild through all of Vanilla. We sold MC / BWL runs like it was going out of style lol.
    I played Vanilla. And no, there was not nowadays epidemic amount of sale runs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonkaden View Post
    Why are you so stuck on this one thing? lol. Its like 99% of your posts on this topic.
    I think the complete hype about classic is ridiculous. I mean.. people have forgotten all the downsides of classic with their nostalgic view on what it was.

    Reminds me to the launch of SWTOR, Wildstar and other failed MMORPGs. When people talked about "the big wow killers", which just killed themself. Classic is the same hype. And will have the same result. A lot of people who will create a char. A lot of people who quit after 2 weeks after they discovered how pathetic classic was.

  3. #183
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    The only problem that I have with classic is that you have to pay the full sub for it. There's zero new content ever coming out for it, and for how dated everything is, it could probably run on a smart fridge, let alone I'm sure that they're older servers they already own will be able to handle the game. So why not either let it be "free" with full subscription (like it currently is) but, allow those of us that only want to play classic to be able to play at half sub cost.
    Eh, it might set a bad precedent, or there may be more work being done than we can see? Not to mention that if this works out, they're strongly considering TBC and Wrath servers, which I would consider "new content" from the standard Classic.

  4. #184
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    I mean I haven't heard anyone say the game was bad then, I've heard a lot of people say it had a lot of issues. I played when it was released and I came from FFXI which in comparison to that WoW was way less of a grind than that. I mean WoW you could solo play anytime you wanted to unless doing a dungeon or raid. But compared to the quality of life changes retail haas gotten it's a lot more player friendly now. Personally I think a lot of you are going to be disappointed. The wait times to find a group as a DPS was dreadful and then you have to walk out there. Nothing like being in IF and having to trek out to SM hoping the Horde aren't annihilating SS so you only have to walk the rest of the way on foot and then sneak by Undercity. I haven't bothered looking at what they have changed from the original except I know there is a X realm for PVP which I would be ok with that if I ever played to play classic.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamercus View Post
    I am in the beta. I was in a potato guild during classic and I am a middling mythic raider now (top US 100-500 depending on what guild, probably top 100 next tier).

    Classic raiding is just really straightforward and simple compared to the last several expansions. Most classes have a 1-3 button rotation or priority list. The encounters are generally simpler than most BFA trash pulls in dungeons. BiS lists and eventually sims generate characters that have over 3-5x+ the output of your average vanilla potato. It will be interesting to do the raids with a 20 man group or less but with a full 40 man that is optimized most encounters will just flop over very quickly without the need to farm resistance gear and the like, partly due to 1.12 being different and partly due to people just being much better at playing the game and optimizing.

    Whereas something like Garr in vanilla required a bunch of potatoes painstakingly picking banish targets and doing assignments for 15 minutes an opitmized group will just mongo it to death on the first pull. The trash on Magmadar is more likely to cause issues in a PUG than Magmadar itself because the trash does something novel that you have to know about ahead of time. Some dudes like Golemagg do practically nothing. Things like Ragnaros that potato guilds used fire protection potions on and fire resistance gear can just be managed with better healing, CD usage, and raid positioning.

    There are certain encounters that are just novel and a little weird like Razergore in BWL that people need special instructions for but anything that is just dependent on output will be steamrolled.

    I don't think raiding classic will be analogous to raiding mythic in retail because progressing through the raid will be like "progressing" in heroic in a mythic guild: full clear on night 1 or by night 2 at the latest. People don't want to believe it but when the beta cap raises most of the content until AQ40 will be largely puggable, and even that is puggable with the right instructions.
    Well here is the surprising thing: I did raid in Vanilla, up to AQ40 actually, but i still never completed Scholomance...the same is actually with Dire Maul, where i never saw 3-4 of the bosses. I simply got past dungeoning without clearing them all, having my nights be filled with ZG, MC and BWL. Doing dungeons did not really make sense after i got some gear here and there, atleast back then.

    But to get on topic: Talking about Vanilla raiding and comparing it to mythic is just a dumb idea. The complexity of mythic raiding is simply not in Vanilla raids. What i am more interested in, is if we will see people be split in the progression, if we will see large parts of the playerbase do ZG and MC when new raids hit out. Will we see raids being cleared quickly or be actual progression in all aspects? Will there be created a community, that can take new players through the different raids or will most of the guilds be mostly progressing on the newest raid only, with a bit of farming for a few players.

    This again returns us to how interesting Classic is as an experiment, because i truly believe that it can go in all kinds of directions. It can crash and burn, it can get a leg and survive on a small playerbase, it can get something close to retail, it can beat retail in playtime and it might even take over as the dominant game overall. Its all very interesting and its gonna be fun to observe.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  6. #186
    We won't really know until classic has been out for a while and the 'newness' of it for lack of a better word fades. Time will be the judge of classic for how many people it draws in to play it consistently.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    I think the complete hype about classic is ridiculous. I mean.. people have forgotten all the downsides of classic with their nostalgic view on what it was.

    Reminds me to the launch of SWTOR, Wildstar and other failed MMORPGs. When people talked about "the big wow killers", which just killed themself. Classic is the same hype. And will have the same result. A lot of people who will create a char. A lot of people who quit after 2 weeks after they discovered how pathetic classic was.
    Why are you still talking about nostalgia. The beta has been out for days and virtually everyone who has played it has come to realise why the classic (i.e. pre-cata) formula was so much more immersive for an MMO, even those who were skeptical before. It's not even a debate any more, you might as well just accept you were wrong now. This is not some abstract idea, it's real and people are playing it and enjoying it and it's created more interest in WoW than most recent expansion releases.

    Do people honestly think all the hype generated from levelling 0-30 is suddenly going to disappear at end game?

    Why do you continually list the inconveniences and lack of quality of life features as a negative when people are literally screaming at you that this is what they prefer and the reasons for why.

    The saying "There are none so blind as those who will not see" could hardly be more appropriate.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by deviant010 View Post
    For years I have read people (who probably pretend to have played vanilla) on this forum saying vanilla was bad and people think it was great because of nostalgia. Now classic beta is open we can finally have a fair comparison and it's funny to see how the nay sayers admit they were wrong after playing beta.

    You've been reading for years. Yet your account was made this year? You post what is essentially troll bait?

    Hmm

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    After reading through this thread, it fucking baffles me that people are trying to invalidate a guys opinion because they don't agree with the opinion being stated.
    "Hey guys, I had preconcieved notions about this game but after everything I've experienced thus far, after playing it for 12 hours every day, I really really like it for these stated reasons."
    "REEEEEEEE HE'S CLEARLY FUCKING WRONG, YOU CAN'T LIKE THIS GAME, HE'S DOING IT FOR MONEY, IT'S A PUBLICITY STUNT, HE'S ACTUALLY TROLLING!"


    Like what the fuck, let someone enjoy what they enjoy.
    If you don't agree with it then that's fucking fine, but don't try to invalidate someones feelings just because you're a piece of shit.
    Except that they have barely been playing it for very long in comparison to the actual length of the game, half the content isn't even in (capped at 30), and they are making sweeping assumptions rather than actually giving it a lengthy test of the actual game itself.

    Or do you think it is acceptable to give sweeping reviews on games that are only half unlocked, and have barely been played in comparison to the life span of the game? Said person may well change their mind again in a week. That is why you normally have to give it time with these things. Imagine if game reviewers did the same, made full reviews based on basically a demo of games. It is a very similar principle.

    Honestly, in many ways, I agree with you. People are too quick to jump on their horses to defend/attack anyways, and it is just someones opinion. BUT, and here is the kicker, many of these Youtube Streamers and such, aren't just random peeps. They have followers who are quick to listen to whatever they say, and take it as gospel truth without verifying or checking the veracity of claims on their own. So arguing they are just sharing an opinion is rather weak. Think of it as some bewn from Fox News or whatever ranting about whatever bullshit they want, then going "Oh, just my opinion!" when hate critique comes in. If you are in the public eye, you are accountable. End of story.

    If said streamers had any journalistic integrity (which many of them really, really don't...), they would hold off to give an actual fair and unbiased review, but many just want to be *first* to get views/likes.

    Honestly, I do agree with you, but when you realise the masses are just fucking mongs who listen to half of these clowns like they are Jesus reborn, you have to hold some accountability to the people involved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post

    Do people honestly think all the hype generated from levelling 0-30 is suddenly going to disappear at end game?
    With fairness, the Beta is what, less than a week old? It is new to many. You are yourself just making sweeping assumptions based on personal opinion with no objectivity whatsoever.

    Answer is simple. No one knows. No one. The game might maintain and be the greatest thing ever, it might fail horribly within a month.



    Honestly? Rift Prime had the most positive beginning ever. Lots of players, major hype, the server was packed and streamers everywhere. A couple of months later, it was dead. Sure, it was due to absolute stupidity by the Devs, but point remains. Early hype is just that. Hype.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    The only problem that I have with classic is that you have to pay the full sub for it. There's zero new content ever coming out for it, and for how dated everything is, it could probably run on a smart fridge, let alone I'm sure that they're older servers they already own will be able to handle the game. So why not either let it be "free" with full subscription (like it currently is) but, allow those of us that only want to play classic to be able to play at half sub cost.
    I could see them offering a discounted 'Classic Only' option once the initial hype train dies down. Right now the idea seems to be enticing retail players to give it a shot as an added bonus/to keep them subscribed during content lulls (nothing to do in Nazjatar, Billy? Why not go level up your hunter in Classic until something new drops?).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    I get what you are saying but IMHO, they sacrificed too much for "better flow and single player-like experience". If you like it, more power to you, but if I want play good game, with great flow, great quests, I play Witcher 3 for example. But if I want play great MMORPG, currently, there is very limited selection on market and honestly, Classic seems to be hitting all important marks for me.

    So thankfully, players can now choose, what they want to play.
    i disagree. i dont see classic as being a better MMORPG experience. its just a very grindy game

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    flows so good it plays itself.
    not even remotely true but whatever you seem like one of those classic crazy people who hate on live. Probably think classic is harder too when its just a grind, nothing hard about it.

  12. #192
    Legendary! MasterHamster's Avatar
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    I just find it interesting to see people reflect on why it can be more fun to actually be in danger from time to time,
    than to be stuck in godmode like you are on live/retail. Things I've been saying for a long, long time.

    People don't complain about things getting easier and yet at a certain point it just stops being immersive. You stop caring about gear upgrades, potions, other classes buffs etc, because they don't matter if you can pull entire mob camps and AoE it down with ease.

    Classic leveling is immersive while retail's is coma-inducing. Which is a funny contrast considering just how slow and repetitive classic leveling is.
    And yet somehow people are more immersed in Classic than ARPG WoW: Cosmetics of Mountcraft.


    Naysayers should try a decent private realm if they haven't got beta and give it a dozen hours or so, maybe they'll see why.
    BFA is a better "game" (judged in a vacuum) but a shitty MMORPG in comparison.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    The biggest challenge of WoW is designing for the many different audiences that play the game.
    Yeah, you're trying to satisfy players who doesn't even enjoy playing RPGs, and thus you're alienating those who do.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Answer is simple. No one knows. No one. The game might maintain and be the greatest thing ever, it might fail horribly within a month.

    Honestly? Rift Prime had the most positive beginning ever. Lots of players, major hype, the server was packed and streamers everywhere. A couple of months later, it was dead. Sure, it was due to absolute stupidity by the Devs, but point remains. Early hype is just that. Hype.
    I'm just asking what is more likely. The love-fest there has been for 0-30 is not suddenly going to disappear at 60, that notion is just ridiculous.

    Comparisons to other games that flopped is such a reach, we are talking about the game that all other MMOs tried to emulate for years to come. It's an objectively good game that is tried and tested. It will be successful, there is no question about that, the only thing we "don't know" is whether it will be wildly successful and overtake retail or just maintain a healthy player base.

    What you fail to understand is that the success or failure of this game never did ride on whether there would be enough interest, it always depended on whether Blizzard could create a faithful replication.
    Last edited by WowClassic; 2019-05-20 at 08:50 PM.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    The baffling part to me isn't that guys like venruki finally came around, its that they didn't remember this in the first place lol. Ive been playing non stop since mid 06 and its so blatantly obvious to me that the game has become a worse mmo over the years i have to wonder how people who have been playing as long as i have dont think the same thing.

    Sure not everything is perfect and in an ideal world the best WoW would take small parts from each expansion, but thinking that the game that started it all and pulled in nearly 8 million players in under 2 years was all nostalgia is kinda wonky logic.
    This the problem with post like this one right here. It was not the game that made the game what it was back then. It was the 8 million people that created a wonderful community that made the game what it was. The content also back then was more about the journey through that content and the endgame was more of an after thought. Classic WoW was great from the standpoint of the Communities, realms, guilds, and players who chose to play the game. The games slow pace was rewarded by becoming friends with complete strangers that eventually became part of a community that made this game what it was. Problem is, unless those 8 million or 8 million people like them with the same level of mentality and play style do not come to the current Classical version then it will be nothing like what WoW was really like back then. It was not the game itself that made WoW a great game. It was the Community itself that was created in the early days of this game that made the game into what it was. There is no way that Community will ever exist again, because people today have a far different mindset than the people that originally played this game. Many also have lived through the refinements over the course of time that made the game far more tolerable to want to play.

    The Quality of life improvements for one over time have been great. Though I will admit that Blizzard went way to far in trying to keep people playing this game for all the wrong reasons. They literally pinned a community against itself the more and more refinements they made to the game itself. Giving people more stuff has literally been the death of this game. Not having to really work for much of anything has created a community of entitlement across the board. In trying to make a closer community, Blizzard over time found away to divide that community more and more from itself. What made WoW pre-cata was the Community that was able to thrive within the game. That is what got me started playing this game. If it were not for the Community that was in place when I first joined, I would not have never started playing in the first place.

    Cata or I like to say, post Icecrown Citadel WoW was nothing like what I remember when I first started playing WoW. From that point the people I started playing the game with started to leave because of the changes either to the game that was or their own lives or both at the same time that made walking away from the game easier and easier before Cata ever was released. The two longstanding guild I had joined from the start of my playing days of WoW literally died as a result of the changes Blizzard had made to that point or the changes that were coming in post Cata that many people just could not live with and chose to leave the game or more on to something else altogether. The Community at that point no matter which realm turned to absolute crap. The worst of the worst type of mindset of a players took over and made the Community literally crap over night. It was not the inexperienced players who made the game go in the tank. It was those that had zero tolerance for those very casual types of players that made the Community what it became post Cata.

    This the problem when people go down memory lane in this game or even in life itself. What was, is never going to be again, because that would require a player base that took a game and made it into what it was. Blizzard just helped to bring it altogether with the content they created. Even the designers and developers were of a different mindset at the beginning of this journey through WoW. They made it better over the passage of time, though whoever choose to go over the top did not see what it was that truly made this game what it was. They saw dollar signs the more and more people chose to join the community. Eventually those dollar signs were the absolute death of a community that made the game what it was, not all the crap that got dumped into the game as a means of continuing to dangle a carrot in front of the faces of people that would continue to play despite all the changes to both the game and the community itself.

    I miss the old part of this game a lot, but I know it was not the content that made me play back then. It was the community of people that made me want to play and continue to want to play even when I had little time to actually play the game. Those friendships from all over the country, as well as in some instance around the world were great, the people I got to play game along with from young to old and everywhere in between were just absolute priceless in every way. The guilds and realms I played on, along with all those people I befriended over time made for a wonderful experience to enjoy on a nightly basis.

    Those 8 million people you mentioned are why WoW was the game it was and it had nothing to do with the content that made those people into a community of people that would literally take this game to levels it would later achieve. People around the world made WoW the game of choice, somewhere along the way the people at Blizzard or at least some of them lost the vision that was right in front of them that made WoW into the success it was. When Blizzard chose to piss that all away, that player based started to wain over time to what it eventually became. Blizzard literally killed the community that it helped to establish with its game and content.
    Last edited by Apexis; 2019-05-20 at 08:52 PM.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    I'm just asking what is more likely.

    Comparisons to other games that flopped is such a reach, we are talking about the game that all other MMOs tried to emulate for a decade and more. It's an objectively good game that is tried and tested. It will be successful, there is no question about that, the only thing we "don't know" is whether it will be wildly successful and overtake retail or just maintain a healthy player base.

    What you fail to understand is that the success or failure of this game never did ride on whether there would be enough interest, it always depended on whether Blizzard could create a faithful replication.
    Nice assumption there. Do you like talking for others and assuming you know their inner thought processes IRL as well?

    You;re not asking which is more likely, you have made a decision that somehow Classic WoW will be an all-conquering beast, and people need to understand this! It will be a success, no doubt about it, but whether that is replicated long-term, no one knows. Absolutely no one. To claim or assume otherwise is just asinine.
    The mention of Rift was because you were talking solely about hype in one section, and hype ends as quickly as it begins with one bad move.

    Just wait, see, and make your own opinion. Telling everyone else they have to acknowledge and respect yours, then making assumptions to their ability to make their own just makes you look a bit of an arsehole tbh.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Nice assumption there. Do you like talking for others and assuming you know their inner thought processes IRL as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Just wait, see, and make your own opinion. Telling everyone else they have to acknowledge and respect yours, then making assumptions to their ability to make their own just makes you look a bit of an arsehole tbh.
    Sorry, but facts don't care about your feelings.

    We knew there would be enough interest given that there was a MILLION people playing on a private server run by amateurs. When you add the weight of Blizzard behind it and official servers, faithfully replicated, it's simply inevitable that there will be enough interest to make it worthwhile. The only thing that could cause it to fail was Blizzard. The interest and the love for the game was never in question for anyone paying attention.

    And yes it will be replicated, you are simply daft to doubt it. This is a game that millions of people fell in love with. The only question is whether it will be successful or "retail blown out of the water" successful.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusblood View Post
    Classic WoW is named Classic for a reason. It's old. Some may like, some may not.

    I personally enjoy the quality of retail game overall. I enjoy better graphics, achievements, Transmog, the new classes, etc.

    I don't want Classic to fail. Anything WoW-related I prefer does exceptionally well. I preferred it never came to fruition.

    Why?

    It's purely nostalgia. People don't necessarily want what Classic WoW was in terms of functionality and gameplay (some do), they want the sense of community back.

    Well, as someone who successfully ran a community oriented PvE guild for over 3 years, we brought back that classic community in our own way. We did it ourselves. Players are currently fully capable of doing it they just choose not to. Making Blizzard implement classic servers in the manner at which it was done is not good overall for the game. The pro-classic crowd was incessantly abrasive towards anybody that disagreed with it. So that is why I will not play classic. I saw the vitriol they had towards other people, yet they claimed they wanted community back. Those are the last people I want to play WoW with.

    Also, I think that the game is best suited at retail, because changes could be made that can reinvigorate the hardcores and bring on newer players. I have a young son that i would like to play WoW with, he certainly won't have the patience for Classic (neither do I) when there are games like Fortnite and PUBG that can easily detract his attention away from a game like WoW.
    Again, it’s not nostalgia when hundreds of thousands have been playing and enjoying vanilla for years, like literally right now.

  18. #198
    There was a reason WoW was the best mmo on the market for as long as it was. SWG, EQ, EQ2, Ultima online, and camelot got stomped out by WoW, while all those games had their good points and systems, wow still came out on top.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    There was a reason WoW was the best mmo on the market for as long as it was. SWG, EQ, EQ2, Ultima online, and camelot got stomped out by WoW, while all those games had their good points and systems, wow still came out on top.
    BECAUSE WoW Was THE casual MMO game for its time, and many people bought it because of WARCRAFT 3 and ofc Diablo 2 success, which brought people to play it, besides the years of WoW gameplay trailers and news on magazines and the internet about the development, Including Beta players who spread the word about the game.


    Also, EA killed Ultima very before WoW when UO2 Project Died, EQ2 was a bad comedy trying to ride on wow formula before it died and EQ was ruined by Furor and Tigole's gang, SWG DIED on the moment that Brack became the lead designer and started to Fuck with the game with the JEDI and Copy WoW, there's even an video talking about it.


    So no, WoW came out on the top During an Period where MMO's reached stagnation due to general Dev incompetence, and the Hype built over it which helped thrice, along with the Gaming system being easier compared to MMo's of that time.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    I just find it interesting to see people reflect on why it can be more fun to actually be in danger from time to time,
    than to be stuck in godmode like you are on live/retail. Things I've been saying for a long, long time.

    People don't complain about things getting easier and yet at a certain point it just stops being immersive. You stop caring about gear upgrades, potions, other classes buffs etc, because they don't matter if you can pull entire mob camps and AoE it down with ease.

    Classic leveling is immersive while retail's is coma-inducing. Which is a funny contrast considering just how slow and repetitive classic leveling is.
    And yet somehow people are more immersed in Classic than ARPG WoW: Cosmetics of Mountcraft.


    Naysayers should try a decent private realm if they haven't got beta and give it a dozen hours or so, maybe they'll see why.
    BFA is a better "game" (judged in a vacuum) but a shitty MMORPG in comparison.
    Oh, please don't speak for me. I like hard and dangerous games, I've played my Dark Souls (Vanilla ain't got shit on a SL1 run where one misstep means you're dead against random enemies), my XCOM on Impossible where RNG alone that kill 20 hours of progress, my Dragon Age: Origins with difficulty mods so ridiculous I had to extract every ounce of cheese out of the (insanely cheesy) ruleset to survive. I can handle that shit.

    Vanilla leveling is nowhere near that level of danger and challenge. It just takes a long-ass time because you don't have a choice and don't have options. At best you can maybe be a Warrior who survives pulling 4 mobs because you pop Retaliation or something (is that even in 1.12? I can't remember) Then you have to eat. Then pull 1-2 mobs. Then eat again, ad nauseum. WoW's questing is terrible and has literally always been terrible when stacked against things like single-player RPGs, that's why I personally want it over and done so I can get to the parts this game does well and are actually unique, IE group PvE.

    You can like Classic leveling if you so desire, and I'm happy you get to experience it. But fuck me this sort of condescending bullshit is probably my least favorite aspect of the Classic fanbase.

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