One classic nay sayer admits they were wrong after playing beta

[Loveliest]

pretty much this. All this hate from retail players have 1 single root. It is fear. Fear of retail stop being Blizzard focus if Classic will be sucessfull in long run. Fear of Blizard changing their instant gratification casino into actual mmorpg.

Why would they be afraid of Classic being successful? Not sure if you're implying they'd change retail to be like Classic?
I'm actually curious to see how Classic will do. I'm not interested in it, because it's still an old game and old concept, but I'm very much interested in seeing it as an experiment.
If asked, I'd guess there will be some sort of playerbase but it'll be pretty small - mostly because, generally speaking, old things don't attract new people and old people don't have spare time for old things. But would this be called "hate"? I'd actually want to see Classic prosper, it could only mean good things for WoW franchise.

[voidillusion]

Why would they be afraid of Classic being successful? Not sure if you're implying they'd change retail to be like Classic?
I'm actually curious to see how Classic will do. I'm not interested in it, because it's still an old game and old concept, but I'm very much interested in seeing it as an experiment.
If asked, I'd guess there will be some sort of playerbase but it'll be pretty small - mostly because, generally speaking, old things don't attract new people and old people don't have spare time for old things. But would this be called "hate"? I'd actually want to see Classic prosper, it could only mean good things for WoW franchise.

It's curious you mentioned that. One of the things i noticed on Ion's recent interview about classic was when he mentioned that if the project was sucessfull lessons might be taken to implement on retail, maybe not his exact words, but the interview is on MMO's main page if you want to check it out. They are surely watching how it all unfolds.

[Loveliest]

Um you never played vanilla then. I ran a guild through all of Vanilla. We sold MC / BWL runs like it was going out of style lol.

Come on... yeah, people sold runs and people bought runs. But if somebody found out you bought your run, you were pointed and laughed at. It was shameful. Even in Wrath, we used to check armory and if you had only one kill of each it meant you bought your run and we laughed about you.
This was the case up to the end of MoP. After they introduced the heirloom weapons in Siege, people started selling left and right. Because the heirloom weapons were limited, people wanted them on all their chars to get them all and so on, bought runs were very efficient. After that, it became the norm - everybody and their mother sold something openly, even stupid things like no medal challenge mode run for that one item you got at the start of Warlords. Also adding the mount to heroic difficulty made buying runs more of a 'thing' than it was.
Today, buying a run is normal, accepted and seen as a play style. This wasn't the case a few expansions ago.

[Soikona]

For years I have read people (who probably pretend to have played vanilla) on this forum saying vanilla was bad and people think it was great because of nostalgia. Now classic beta is open we can finally have a fair comparison and it's funny to see how the nay sayers admit they were wrong after playing beta.

I thought classic would be shit as I have already played during vanilla, I was right. Do you think one YouTube video is some sort of “win”?

[Rendark]

You couldn't pay me to go back and play classic. I played it when it was new and while it was good then and i had a lot of fun, times change.

[Soluna]

Obviously lol? Thats still 2-2.5 years of awesome content that will stay pretty hyped due to how they are releasing content in stages. Cool thing is the good WoW didnt end at vanilla, they could re-release TBC and wrath which in my eyes are just as good as classic all things considered (classic was better in some, tbc/wrath better in others).

Trying to reason with classic fans is like talking with brick walls.

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Come on... yeah, people sold runs and people bought runs. But if somebody found out you bought your run, you were pointed and laughed at. It was shameful. Even in Wrath, we used to check armory and if you had only one kill of each it meant you bought your run and we laughed about you.
This was the case up to the end of MoP. After they introduced the heirloom weapons in Siege, people started selling left and right. Because the heirloom weapons were limited, people wanted them on all their chars to get them all and so on, bought runs were very efficient. After that, it became the norm - everybody and their mother sold something openly, even stupid things like no medal challenge mode run for that one item you got at the start of Warlords. Also adding the mount to heroic difficulty made buying runs more of a 'thing' than it was.
Today, buying a run is normal, accepted and seen as a play style. This wasn't the case a few expansions ago.

Idk about you, but everyone in my WoW social circles from mop up until today still laughs at people who buy boosts.

[Chonar]

I'm probably fairly late to the party with this, but I am tickled by the title change of this thread.

[Loveliest]

It's curious you mentioned that. One of the things i noticed on Ion's recent interview about classic was when he mentioned that if the project was sucessfull lessons might be taken to implement on retail, maybe not his exact words, but the interview is on MMO's main page if you want to check it out. They are surely watching how it all unfolds.

Yeah, but I wonder what they could change.
Are people who attracted by Classic attracted to it because it's an exact replica (more or less) of Vanilla? Would the same people be interested in retail with some changes? And how many should there be? Would retail people like retail more with Classic changes? Or are these just two separate player bases who'll never see eye to eye.

For example, I've seen Cata make dungeons harder. People wanted TBC-like dungeons so we got some harder ones, aggro was a bit harder to keep compared to the end of Wrath, you needed interrupts, you needed CC, CC made mobs pull, you actually had mechanics that would wipe you if not done properly. I loved them, but I've seen half my guild quit WoW after a few weeks because they took hours to finish them.
This is why, somehow, I don't really think Blizz can "go back". Even if they say so.

[WowClassic]

I thought classic would be shit as I have already played during vanilla, I was right. Do you think one YouTube video is some sort of “win”?

Oh really, let's see a screenshot of your Classic character in game?

And no it's not just one video, many people who were sceptical have admitted they were wrong to dismiss it and have been enjoying the game. For example Preach (high end raider on retail) has been making content for Classic when he said he had little interest in the past. He also admitted he was wrong on a podcast.

Keep burying your heads in the sand, it just makes you look utterly foolish.

[voidillusion]

Yeah, but I wonder what they could change.
Are people who attracted by Classic attracted to it because it's an exact replica (more or less) of Vanilla? Would the same people be interested in retail with some changes? And how many should there be? Would retail people like retail more with Classic changes? Or are these just two separate player bases who'll never see eye to eye.

For example, I've seen Cata make dungeons harder. People wanted TBC-like dungeons so we got some harder ones, aggro was a bit harder to keep compared to the end of Wrath, you needed interrupts, you needed CC, CC made mobs pull, you actually had mechanics that would wipe you if not done properly. I loved them, but I've seen half my guild quit WoW after a few weeks because they took hours to finish them.
This is why, somehow, I don't really think Blizz can "go back". Even if they say so.

I agree with that. Retail is a beast with it's own will atm, some ppl clearly play it for the short sessions. For example, i really think one thing that has room to improve largely on retail is the leveling experience, and they had some significant changes in the right direction imo recently, even so we're talking about 120 levels. It's a delicate subject.

[WowClassic]

For example, I've seen Cata make dungeons harder. People wanted TBC-like dungeons so we got some harder ones, aggro was a bit harder to keep compared to the end of Wrath, you needed interrupts, you needed CC, CC made mobs pull, you actually had mechanics that would wipe you if not done properly. I loved them, but I've seen half my guild quit WoW after a few weeks because they took hours to finish them.
This is why, somehow, I don't really think Blizz can "go back". Even if they say so.

Cata dungeons weren't harder, they just took longer

Kappa

[Soikona]

Oh really, let's see a screenshot of your Classic character in game?

And no it's not just one video, many people who were sceptical have admitted they were wrong to dismiss it and have been enjoying the game. For example Preach (high end raider on retail) has been making content for Classic when he said he had little interest in the past. He also admitted he was wrong on a podcast.

Keep burying your heads in the sand, it just makes you look utterly foolish.

I don’t follow youtubers, I form my own opinion on my own. I don’t need to be told what to think or need my opinion to be validated by some man child online. I loved vanilla at the time, I have grown away from it, and I think it has aged badly. Am I a nay sayers because I believe it won’t be as successful as you think it is?

Keep your head in the clouds, it just makes you look utterly foolish.

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Cata dungeons weren't harder, they just took longer

Kappa

Horribly off topic, but people still say kappa non ironically?

[WowClassic]

You aren't stating facts though, you are talking about hype, and you are using a LOT of hyperbole in justfiying what you consider *facts*.
You literally have no proof anything you are saying will come to fruition, beyond a belief it will, but are claiming it is an absolute certainty.
.

Nice job Einstein, yes of course no one knows with absolute certainty what will happen in the future since no one has a crystal ball. Nevertheless anyone with a functioning brain can see that that there is a substantial market for the kind of experiences that the classic WoW formula offered, to doubt it is to suggest that the business heads at ActiBlizz just took a wild gamble on whether it would be worthwhile for them to invest in. The initial hype and love for Classic has only confirmed what most people already knew, that modern WoW has become something so different that a 15 year old game, warts and all, still has the ability to captivate people in a way the current offering cannot.

[WowClassic]

And now with the ad hominem, but now you have changed tact again? Now we *don't* know with absolute certainty? You seemed pretty sure a couple of posts ago.

You are making assumption after assumption, based on no evidence whatsoever beyodn "But private servers!" that were capped at 500k people, and were getting for free. Of course Acti-Blizz did market research to see if it is valid, but that is literally not what you were claiming. You are claiming there are millions who wish to play this type, based upon utterly biased and non-representative data , and somehow thinking it is relevant.

Seriously, you have presented nothing but your own opinion, and trying to pass it off as fact. You are nothing but the classic bottom feeder type, who doesn't want a discussion, but just wants to spout their perspective over everyone else, and anyone who possibly pours the slightest amount of doubt upon it, you attack. It will be hilarious when the game caps at about 450k stable subs, and that is it, probably a lot less, far cry form the "Millions" you claim.

Go back to whatever main account you are hiding from here on, you contribute nothing beyond hyperbole, bullshit, and personal opinion you are trying to claim as fact.

As I said, I signed up because I saw people trashing Venruki and trying to invalidate his opinion, one of the nicest and chillest guys in the community. To be that ignorant and petty just shows what embittered, resentful losers you people are. And yes half a million extra subs would surely be considered a financial success by Blizzard, especially given no new content had to be created. That is why I said the only question is whether it will be a success or a wild success. On the plus side you are all making Classic even more likely to be successful, because the desire to have a community without such obnoxious and self-absorbed people grows by the day. Enjoy your world quests and war fronts mate.

[Icechaosss]

"Classic naysayers were wrong" No, we dont know that yet because the damn game isn't out yet. This thread is as useless as the ones claiming Classic will die right off the bat. Give the game time to breathe before making judgements.

Wrong forum to provide common sense sir.

MMO-C is the echo chamber where everything is absolute and everyone else is wrong.

Real talk, I'm excited for Classic and I'm gonna play the hell out of it. But I sure as hell don't think it's going to magically make WoW this amazing success it once was.

[MardestyGSOG]

Is it that hard to fathom that there is a rather large crowd of people who prefers a slower and more immersive community oriented mmo?

[La]

It's funny when I watch everything he says and I'm just raising my eyebrows at the majority, but not all, of his points for why it's so great. Try it and figure out your own opinions or feelings, rather than having to have other people tell you how you should feel about it.

I mean, I could give you five reasons right now for why I'm skeptical of someone like this giving their opinion in general and accepting as 100% truth.

[KaPe]

Is it that hard to fathom that there is a rather large crowd of people who prefers a slower and more immersive community oriented mmo?

That depends. Is your definition of "rather large crowd" = tens of millions? That's what some people seriously claim and at that point it just becomes silly. Yes, all of vanilla subscribers were waiting 15 years for that moment and they didn't find another hobby in all that time. Plus they all quit for the exact same reason and want the exact same thing in their ideal game.

Of course there will be a "rather large crowd of people" enjoying Classic. But the hype is getting ridiculous... and footage from random streamer five days after beta starts doesn't count as proof of anything, so threads like these are largely meaningless. Like I said before, people were calling WoD "best expansion ever" within first week of its' release. Initial reactions can be highly rose colored and misleading.

Plus there's the part where streaming Classic right now can bring in some serious money. That tends to affect the validity of opinions somewhat.

[lummiuster]

Im a big fan of Vanilla since it came out. I totally understand that it is not for everyone. I don't see how someone who likes BfA would like Vanilla. One is super easy, quick rewards, quick gear, LFG tool, you're a hero, balance. The other one is exactly the opposite. Different taste, I like it harder and I like unbalance.

[WowClassic]

It's funny when I watch everything he says and I'm just raising my eyebrows at the majority, but not all, of his points for why it's so great. Try it and figure out your own opinions or feelings, rather than having to have other people tell you how you should feel about it.

I mean, I could give you five reasons right now for why I'm skeptical of someone like this giving their opinion in general and accepting as 100% truth.

Oh look, the mind-reading skeptical hero here is rolling their eye brows and sneering at the guy who has played the game intensely for several days while at the same time saying people need to play the game before having an opinion. Your lack of self-awareness is offensive.