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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I will give Sowell credit though. He serves as an excellent case study of internalised racism.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, I do. On account of not being the sort of dipshit that gives supply side economics any weight.

    Your move.
    Should've just called him a poo poo face, it would have been less transparent.

  2. #262
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breslin View Post
    Should've just called him a poo poo face, it would have been less transparent.
    His problem isn't his face. His problem, like so many libertarians, is that he's an idiot. Anyway, don't let me interrupt you in the process of repeating that Southern Strategy talking point about welfare causing poverty as a pretext to cut social programs.

    For the rest of you, this is an excellent demonstration of why "guilt" is such a large part of Western culture. Because the process of iteration means that the philosophies used to justify past atrocities carry cultural baggage into present ones - namely, the relationship between the entire idea of Supply Side Economics and the need for certain people to advance an economic agenda that would enable them to keep blacks as an underclass.

    History is a pack of tricks that the dead play upon the living.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    His problem isn't his face. His problem, like so many libertarians, is that he's an idiot. Anyway, don't let me interrupt you in the process of repeating that Southern Strategy talking point about welfare causing poverty as a pretext to cut social programs.

    For the rest of you, this is an excellent demonstration of why "guilt" is such a large part of Western culture. Because the process of iteration means that the philosophies used to justify past atrocities carry cultural baggage into present ones - namely, the relationship between the entire idea of Supply Side Economics and the need for certain people to advance an economic agenda that would enable them to keep blacks as an underclass.

    History is a pack of tricks that the dead play upon the living.
    I think what you mean is that he has a different viewpoint than you, and since you have been raised to believe in your own infallibility that in spite of his massive amount of academic degrees and years of research that you in fact must be right and he must be evil. What you have is called a god complex, not sure if there is a solution but best of luck.

  4. #264
    Guilt is a part of any culture. It's something people feel. In most Asian cultures, dedication to the happy life of elders is something to feel guilty over while we often leave them to die in some shit places.

    Guilt manifest in many different ways. It's not always bad, not always good. It's a potentially constructive feeling anyone can have.

  5. #265
    Legendary! Collegeguy's Avatar
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    What's worse is when people feel like they are owed an apology for something they never experienced.

  6. #266
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    The hint is in the title? "culture"

    Also: "especially when the grand majority of people alive had nothing to do with them" - so what would you suggest? Because of that, brush it off and do the same shit again.

    I don't feel guilt, but how about a responsibility not do to what my fathers and grandfathers did? Or call it something else if the word "guilt" worries you so much

    Oh yeah..and this: "Why do people feel proud of their country?" That is also usually attached to achievements - present or past that they had no involvement in. Stop to cherry pick.

    If you you can be proud of the good things that made your country, take also the bad stuff.

  7. #267
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Right the real racist party isn't the party calling nazis and white nationalist fine good people... its the democrats... for.... "reasons" meanwhile black church, mosque, and synagogue shootings would like to speak to you.

    "republicans may have bigots among them but at least it isn't 100%"

    tell me what specifically is racist about democrats?
    Apparently we hate white people or some such.
    "Another turtle made it to the water!" - Turtle-hating psychopath

  8. #268
    Over 9000! Orby's Avatar
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    Every country in history has been guilty of horrible crimes against humanity. I don't feel guilty about it because I wasnt even born then, but what I do try to do is be better by learning from it. It;s how we all evolve.
    "Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat—that's the key" - Geralt of Rivia

  9. #269
    The Unstoppable Force Theodarzna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    This is something that always struck me as a bit off but why does guilt seem to play such a large role in the history of the west? From Canada with its Indian schools to Americans with slavery, and Europe with the holocaust.

    Why is it that these issues seem to press so heavily on the mind of so many especially when the grand majority of people alive had nothing to do with them? Looking around the world this sort of culture seems to really only exist in the west what makes it stick around so long?
    Christianity; to a great deal, American's live in the long shadow of a culture of guilt over original sin and even atheists largely haven't learned to live without that orientation of thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    i think I have my posse filled out now. Mars is Theo, Jupiter is Vanyali, Linadra is Venus, and Heather is Mercury. Dragon can be Pluto.
    сила лунной призмы составляет

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Why do you think single parenthood became a big thing in Black America? Can you think of anything (people, policies, whatever) that could have contributing to an uprise in single-parent homes between the 60s and now?
    I'm wondering what your idea would be, since the only significant change in the 60s is more civil rights and welfare. There's also the element of tribal 'togetherness' when black americans were singled out and that would theoretically lead to a banding together and a greater sense of community. You can also point to the black migration to the industrialized, urbanized north, where education was more important to get a job. Unemployment and crime levels might coincide with the latter period of this, leading to subsequent generations that degenerated in family structure. You could also point to black american culture as being distinct and not having enough of an emphasis on education or discipline; the contrast is quite stark with some asian groups that have immigrated.
    Last edited by Raybourne; 2019-05-22 at 10:32 PM.

  11. #271
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    I'm wondering what your idea would be, since the only significant change in the 60s is more civil rights and welfare. There's also the element of tribal 'togetherness' when black americans were singled out and that would theoretically lead to a banding together and a greater sense of community. You can also point to the black migration to the industrialized, urbanized north, where education was more important to get a job. Unemployment and crime levels might coincide with the latter period of this, leading to subsequent generations that degenerated in family structure.
    In the 70s black America saw a little bit of economic upswing as did the rest of the country. That upswing wasn't enough to undo 100 years of post Civil War socioeconomic disparity and wasn't enough to weather the store of the 80s.

    I'm not going to go into great detail but Reagan's economic policies created an environment where the rich got richer and the poor got poorer. He also cut or restricted a number of socioeconomic programs. Programs that poor people relied on. Black at the beginning of the 80s had more spending power than 10 years prior but still had a sizable 'poor' population.

    That's not all though. During this time period, we also have the crack epidemic. We established that poor/working class black people were moving to the cities. We'll so was crack. In a tough economy, crack provided a means to put food on the table. I a tough economy without social programs, crack was a coping mechanism. In a tough economy, with drugs thrown in the mix, competition drives up street crime, feeding a habit drives up petty crime. The inner cities that black people lived in and were moving to were a trap of dreams and misfortune. Poor families units were destroyed by this poison flooding the streets. Crime rose 20% during the 80s.

    Then you Reagan's War on Drugs which only irritated the situation even more. I can write for days about this but the rise of the private prison industry, jail practices that create a vicious cycle for poor people, uneven sentencing guidelines, I can keep going. Poor communities, which might as well be synonymous with black communities, were devastated. Fathers in jail, mom can't support the children or has a habit. Welfare is cut. Social programs are cut. Teen tries to get a job to help out but there aren't enough opportunities for everyone that aren't drug related. Dad gets out, has his rights revoked, no license, no one will higher him. Goes back to the streets. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

    The irony of it all is was let to the crack epidemic, and the War on Drugs, and the already shit economy for people.

    Since we're on the subject of remembering history... There was no influx of cocaine (and subsequently crack) to the inner cities without South America. South America was not pushing drugs into the US without a cause or aide. That aide was the US funding Contras in South America. The US got its money by dealing arms in the Middle East. At the same time, you had feds officially unofficially in the dope. Apparently, your boy Reagan was mostly out of the loop of the government doing all of this under his watch.

    The 80s were wild. All the way back to the question of, 'wtf happened to black people between the 60s and 2010s? The 80s.

    You could also point to black american culture as being distinct and not having enough of an emphasis on education or discipline; the contrast is quite stark with some asian groups that have immigrated.
    Huge lie/misconception/stereotype, whatever you want to call it. Black America greatly values education. There research to back that up. Whats not high is perceived access to a good education, for a lot of reasons.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2019-05-23 at 12:18 AM.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    The irony of it all is was let to the crack epidemic, and the War on Drugs, and the already shit economy for people.
    Probably so. The factors you've mentioned are really just 'aggrevators' as you mentioned, not primary causes. An even more likely factor (I'm sure you've heard about) would be lead poisoning which is responsible for a hefty IQ drop and increase in crime.

    Apparently, your boy Reagan ...
    I don't get it?

    Huge lie/misconception/stereotype, whatever you want to call it. Black America greatly values education. There research to back that up. Whats not high is perceived access to a good education, for a lot of reasons.
    Source?

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Let's just remember what you said:



    What was your original point? Lynchings even in Jim Crow (0.002%), and police deaths currently (6.7*e-4), are just a non-issue. The numbers have actually gone DOWN in per capita, so it's interesting you just avoid giving that stat. Your paragraph on the archipelago is equally pointless when discussing actual slavery. I guess your point really could've been just "it's interesting that the west ended slavery and lynching", but I thought there was more to it than laziness.
    Are you really fucking doing this? Shifting the goalposts instead of just admitting you were wrong? Look, it's OK that you didn't know this stuff (at least, not the scope of the problem). It goes against what we were raised to believe. But the facts are there in plain English. If you want to live in perpetual denial, I can't stop you. But if you're going to insist on poisoning the discourse with your hangups, I'm going to have to politely ask you to leave.

  14. #274
    The Insane PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post
    Probably so. The factors you've mentioned are really just 'aggrevators' as you mentioned, not primary causes. An even more likely factor (I'm sure you've heard about) would be lead poisoning which is responsible for a hefty IQ drop and increase in crime.
    Not sure what you're on about IQ but crime data and the crack epidemic go hand in hand. The lead theory relates to overall violent crime, which was down trending in the 80s, while drug-related/adjacent crimes were way up. Lead levels had been down for a decade (going on two) by the time drugs reached 'epidemic' levels in the inner cities. And like I said, that's on top of Reagan 'trickle down' economics that screwed over the poor.

    Source?
    http://news.rice.edu/2013/11/12/afri...ary-education/

    Where the stereotypes come from
    https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1090572.pdf

    Despite the socioeconomic hurdles, the black education gap has done nothing but climb at an increasing rate (you can google that on your own).

    Apparently, your boy Reagan ...
    I don't get it?
    Everything I wrote was related to policy in the 80s. Reagan's era, which came right after the 'official' end of Jim Crow policies (end doesn't mean minorities suddenly recovered from that era).
    Last edited by PACOX; 2019-05-23 at 02:33 AM.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Raybourne View Post

    Are you saying those two ideas conclude that voter identification is indeed taking away people's rights?
    When you combine the two yes. If the population is increasing we should not be closing polling stations.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Apparently we hate white people or some such.
    It pretty much seems that way when something like "It's ok to be white" is called racism and pretty much anyone standing against anti white racism is a white nationalist or nazi. Nobody sane is saying nazis are good people. However, saying "there were bad people on both sides" in Charlottesville, which was true, somehow means that nazis are good people....

  17. #277
    Guilt is part of christianity's DNA,

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Faerune View Post
    Guilt is part of christianity's DNA,
    There is zero guilt more then a few people we shall ignore. Stupid as fuck to feel any kind of guilt for something you had nothing too do about.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  19. #279
    it's a liberal/leftist tactic to sow dissent into the white populaces of western countries.

    it works, because Western countries are the most progressive, open minded people in the world and it will work on them... which is ironic, that the most open minded people in the world are being subjected to guilt for things that most of the rest of the world still do.

    Western countries are the most progressive when it comes to treatment of women, gays and people of color aswell. They're also the most targeted by those groups, because they allow it. Imagine a bunch of feminists or gays marching in a non western country for equal rights... they'd be dead within hours. Trans people don't even exist in most of the non-western world, besides like Thailand or Taiwan(can never remember which one it is) and that's probably because of rich old white dudes.

    Take another modern technological country that is probably above most Western standards like Japan. They're racist, sexist and probably homophobic... a very conservative country and yet they don't suffer guilt... or liberals/leftists. Paradise! xD

    Anyways, guilt is stupid. You ever own a slave? No? You ever beat a women or treat them like an object? No? You ever stone a gay person or treat them like they're worse? No? Then you have no guilt and any PC/SJW that tries to make you feel like you do, isn't worth your time.

    Not all liberals/leftist do push guilt, the more intelligent ones seem to understand how stupid and hypocritical that is.

  20. #280
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeBogina View Post
    it's a liberal/leftist tactic to sow dissent into the white populaces of western countries.

    it works, because Western countries are the most progressive, open minded people in the world and it will work on them... which is ironic, that the most open minded people in the world are being subjected to guilt for things that most of the rest of the world still do.

    Western countries are the most progressive when it comes to treatment of women, gays and people of color aswell. They're also the most targeted by those groups, because they allow it. Imagine a bunch of feminists or gays marching in a non western country for equal rights... they'd be dead within hours. Trans people don't even exist in most of the non-western world, besides like Thailand or Taiwan(can never remember which one it is) and that's probably because of rich old white dudes.

    Take another modern technological country that is probably above most Western standards like Japan. They're racist, sexist and probably homophobic... a very conservative country and yet they don't suffer guilt... or liberals/leftists. Paradise! xD

    Anyways, guilt is stupid. You ever own a slave? No? You ever beat a women or treat them like an object? No? You ever stone a gay person or treat them like they're worse? No? Then you have no guilt and any PC/SJW that tries to make you feel like you do, isn't worth your time.

    Not all liberals/leftist do push guilt, the more intelligent ones seem to understand how stupid and hypocritical that is.
    Careful not to cut yourself on all that edge.

    "Which matters more; the freedom to live an authentic life, or the freedom to crush degenerates under the heel of a jackboot?
    As a centrist, I am undecided."

    - Natalie Wynn, "Transtrenders"

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