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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    I feel like people are missing the point.

    It's not about whether or not Resto Shaman can work in a +20 key. It's about everyone's PERCEPTION of what constitutes the "meta" choices. People see Rogues, Druids, and Warriors at the top, so they conclude those must be the easiest picks; and everyone PUGing wants an easy run. That has nothing to do with whether or not other classes/specs couldn't also do the same key perfectly well. And it has nothing to do with player skill. Why? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW PEOPLE IN PUGs THINK.

    If your argument is "well my friend who's #1 ranked in the world gets invites all the time", then I'm not quite sure what to even respond. Because that's just not the situation people are in. And many people just want to do some decently challenging keys without having to grind to 3,000 IO rating in PUGs. That's the whole point of the problem originally stated - that the perception of the meta has become exclusive to all but the most dedicated, or people with prior connections. And for no real reason other than perception.
    Yes, it is bad - I agree. But it is not isolated to resto shaman. Its the same for warlocks & many other dps, every other healer aside from Rdruid, every other tank aside from warrior. There is always going to be something that is slightly better than others and everyone will try to use it. Its a noob mentality unless you are an elite player. Start your own groups - don't fall into the mindset yourself and you may actually find people to play with is what I am saying.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by KoozieJR View Post
    I wouldn't say I am lucky. We all pushed from 1.5k together but it did indeed take a while to find a good group to play with. Pugging keys with any comp (whether you are a resto shaman or not) over 17 or 18 can be pretty rough for any class/spec. If you are pushing that high - just like raiding, you probably want some people you know are reliable and play well together. Add the good players and keep inviting each other back. Some comps thrive with a resto shaman. Resto is soooooooooo much better at Shrine of the Storm than a druid in high keys...there are alot of positive boys! You just need to prove to the group you are worth taking by doing things other healers cant. I wish I could play more and get higher score to show people how good resto is - not saying I would get 3.5k but 3k is definitely not the limit.

    I honestly think the people who moan and bitch about meta are not worth playing with. They are followers who cant try something outside of the box - we are all here cause we enjoy a challenge and enjoy shaman playstyle. So keep enjoying it and try to find a good group with similar minds. Player Skill > Class
    Yeah, I agree shrine of the storm is the best key for resto shaman. It doesn't need much healing, and we bring interrupts and can pull big single target DPS. But try telling that to the tons of pugs who "need a resto druid" and won't believe you.

    The stigma is huge against us. Even in season one when dk tanks were the meta instead of prot warriors so combat res on healers was less important, resto shamans were considered worst from all healers. And even though you specifically found a stable team to push with and reached 3K, which is a great achievment by itself for a resto shaman, the highest resto druids is almost 4.2K. Just look at the top runs leaderboards:

    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...rboards-strict

    It's almost all resto druids. Your best run is ranked at position 2084 in that list.

    You *ARE* lucky to have a stable group, since most groups who want to push those high keys wouldn't compromise on a resto shaman and want a resto druid. I have friends from legion who are over 3.5k by now. They are pushing with resto druids and don't want to invite me just because I like to play a resto shaman.

    We need buffs from blizzard, first of all combat res (or just disable CR from mythic+), and then some tank healing buffs. Then we need some time for the public "stigma" against resto shamans to change and acknowledge the buffs. Only then will the situation change and we'll start getting invited into groups.
    Last edited by Koor; 2019-06-05 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #23
    I have 6 dungeons in the top 500 in the world on RaiderIO dude. so 2000 is a bit of a stretch. But yeah buffs are needed. If I played as much as that 4200 Rdruid and didn't work 60 hours a week - I would be a bit closer. Unfortunately life is life

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by KoozieJR View Post
    I have 6 dungeons in the top 500 in the world on RaiderIO dude. so 2000 is a bit of a stretch. But yeah buffs are needed. If I played as much as that 4200 Rdruid and didn't work 60 hours a week - I would be a bit closer. Unfortunately life is life
    Well there are 10 dungeons, so being top 500 for a specific dungeon is a lower place in the overall dungeon run list.

    Just scroll in the list of top runs:

    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankin...ct/104#content

    you are the first resto shaman to appear in the list at page 104, position #2088 for FH +23 in time.

    Again, this is huge achievment, don't get me wrong, but someone has to scroll *104* pages to find a single resto shaman, where the first page with the top 20 runs contains 19 resto druids. So healers are found at:

    Druid at #1
    Paladin at #19
    Priest at #39
    Monk at #293.
    Shaman at #2088.

    This is objective data which shows that all other healing classes are better than resto shamans in mythic+, and buffs are needed.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Koor View Post
    Well there are 10 dungeons, so being top 500 for a specific dungeon is a lower place in the overall dungeon run list.

    Just scroll in the list of top runs:

    you are the first resto shaman to appear in the list at page 104, position #2088 for FH +23 in time.

    Again, this is huge achievment, don't get me wrong, but someone has to scroll *104* pages to find a single resto shaman, where the first page with the top 20 runs contains 19 resto druids. So healers are found at:

    Druid at #1
    Paladin at #19
    Priest at #39
    Monk at #293.
    Shaman at #2088.

    This is objective data which shows that all other healing classes are better than resto shamans in mythic+, and buffs are needed.
    Thats the wrong way to look at rankings dude. Im ranked 177 healer in the world according to raider IO. So there are 176 higher ranked people - not 2087 how you are making it seem. For all we know the top player in the world has 100 of those runs.

    I get what you are saying. But you are making it seem like there are 2000 people above the top shaman when in fact its less than 200 in the entire world.

  6. #26
    Its the wrong way to look at rankings.
    According to Raider IO - the top shaman is the 177th ranked healer in the world out of ALL healers. Looking at a specific dungeon and counting the same person over and over makes no sense.
    Those 2000 runs are probably 20% done by the top 5-6 players who spam dungeons so very skewed statistic.
    The gap is not as big as you are making out.

    Like don't get me wrong - I know druid is OP. But whats the point complaining about it. You like playing the class right? So just play it? you obviously aren't trying to be #1 in the world overall for healers because if you were you would roll FOTM like the top druids. In every MMO I have ever played I tell people...if you wonna be world #1 at something reroll FOTM. If you want to enjoy the game then play the class you like and be happy with that - push the limits and you might surprise yourself. No one doubting its not as good as other healers. All MMOs are the same - there wont ever be perfect balance and because there isnt people will gravitate to the OP classes and abuse them to get higher rankings forever. Accept it and move on
    Last edited by KoozieJR; 2019-06-05 at 10:08 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by KoozieJR View Post
    Its the wrong way to look at rankings.
    According to Raider IO - the top shaman is the 177th ranked healer in the world out of ALL healers. Looking at a specific dungeon and counting the same person over and over makes no sense.
    Those 2000 runs are probably 20% done by the top 5-6 players who spam dungeons so very skewed statistic.
    The gap is not as big as you are making out.

    Like don't get me wrong - I know druid is OP. But whats the point complaining about it. You like playing the class right? So just play it? you obviously aren't trying to be #1 in the world overall for healers because if you were you would roll FOTM like the top druids. In every MMO I have ever played I tell people...if you wonna be world #1 at something reroll FOTM. If you want to enjoy the game then play the class you like and be happy with that - push the limits and you might surprise yourself. No one doubting its not as good as other healers. All MMOs are the same - there wont ever be perfect balance and because there isnt people will gravitate to the OP classes and abuse them to get higher rankings forever. Accept it and move on
    The top runs does show which healer classes are capable to complete +26 in time (druid) and which aren't (shamans, best is +23).
    But we can also look at the top ranked healers of all classes:

    https://raider.io/mythic-plus-charac...rld/all/healer

    Druid #1
    Paladin #13
    Priest #26
    Monk #67
    Shaman #177

    So again shaman is ranked last, with a significant gap from the others, so also looking at this we can conclude that shaman is the worst for mythic+.

    Looking at the first 200 healers (different players), we have:

    171 druids
    12 paladins
    9 monks
    7 priests
    1 resto shaman

    So again shaman is ranked last -- any way we look at it, we are currently in the worse place among healers in mythic+.

    The point of complaining about it is that we need to get buffs, it's blizzard fault messing up the class balance so bad and causing this stigma about resto shamans so that people don't invite us.

    It doesn't have to be like this -- with small buffs that don't take much development time, blizzard can fix this situation.
    Last edited by Koor; 2019-06-05 at 10:16 AM.

  8. #28
    No one arguing they the worst in m+. But like I said. Even if shaman gets a buff. There will still be a class that is not as good as the next. Its inevitable. So just enjoy the class for what it is now. Dont always look to the future. Its swings and round abouts. If you enjoy it play. If you dont then dont.

  9. #29
    Rsham is pretty powerful in M+, particularly with affixes like Necrotic or Bursting where your kit helps you counter them perfectly. The main issue I have encountered is the number of globals it can take to output big healing; you're limited a lot by maintaining Tidal Waves and your CBT. When you get to higher keys, you have to be extremely proactive in order to keep up with the damage but I think overall it's a good thing. It feels challenging when there is a good level of decision making required in a spec.

    I don't think the capability of a spec to compete in M20+ keys should be a major balancing consideration. Very few players bother getting to that level, as dungeons are tuned pretty poorly for the most part even in much lower keys. Finding people you enjoy playing with is much more important than trying to push your score with random strangers.

  10. #30
    Dreadlord ItsTiddles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koor View Post
    Druid #1
    Paladin #13
    Priest #26
    Monk #67
    Shaman #177
    I haven't pushed this expac, but it's sad to know we're worse than we were in Legion in terms of rankings.

    Retired Shaman
    Signature by Winter Blossom

  11. #31
    I play resto if I want to make group faster, I usually play enha. My problem with resto is mostly cast times, whether its shortened by buff or normal cast, it just takes ages. Feeling like turret just like ele spec. Not to mention a moment where you need to run for mechanics instead of finishing cast on low hp tank.
    I also play resto druid as alt and it is just relaxing to play it, that freedom of movement. Also, those 2 instant swiftmends make whole world of difference, shaman just dont have that. It is not just amount of heal, it is bunch of fire&forget spells that do the job, while you can just dps, move, br or just spam regrowth.

  12. #32
    Just did mechagon with a 390 ilvl and gained about 10 ilvls from gear inside with tanks and dps between 400-410. We wiped many times as most of us were new to the fights but it was definately doable if we didn't mess up mechanics. Very enjoyable though this new azerite necklace ability seems ok but boy does it suck when your not tracking the stacks and you ELW 0 stack necklace. Also found wellspring to work better than ascendance with the amount of spread and density in a 5 man. Though I will admit high tide works well when you stack melee dps.

  13. #33
    Bloodsail Admiral Outofmana's Avatar
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    The problem they created by letting some healers revolve around dpsing and other healers staying more 'true' to the healerclass can almost not be fixed while keeping 5 distinct healerclasses. Instead of adressing the disc-priest problem they now made the paladin a hybrid as well and gave a druid too much dps gain vs healing uptime. All while making healerdps required for anything truly competitive in the game. It sure seems like the one handling healers nowadays just does not like to heal at all, and is the wrong person for the job.

    At the end of the day the mythic+ implementation was a horrible one for healers. As in the end the best one will be only 1 of two posibilities; either a HoT class, or a class that procs healing from DPS, as doing healing/dps seperately, like a shaman or holypriest, will hurt group DPS hugely every single time.

    Having a -95% dps healeraura for 5mans and raids at this point would be the only solution while buffing dps to heal % of e.g. a disc priest hugely to offset this dps loss. It's time to bring healing back to pure healing again, there's more than enough classes to roll on if you want to DPS, and the combination has been proven unsustainable, as shown in either high end mythic+, pug mythics, pug raids and even the world first race with no shamans etc.
    Last edited by Outofmana; 2019-08-10 at 08:40 PM.

  14. #34
    Shaman mana is horrible, movement is an issue with the long cast times and our group healing can be decent if we have everyone grouped close but if we have a bunch of ranged and tons of group damage going out its not good. Basically druid does everything better than Rshaman so again, no reason to even bring one. Aside from the niche uses Resto shamans had last raid tier we are pretty much just useless for any challenging content.

    The fact that Ion plays Resto shaman and took him this long to realize we are in the gutter really scares me... Not sure what they are smoking over there at headquarters but its not going well for their brain cells.

  15. #35
    Merry christmas resto shamans, have some buffs galore

  16. #36
    I picked all the buffed spells from the hotfix and it's quite fun to play. But I am a pleb ilvl 419, but the +10 I did was easy and fun to play, just an alt with 55 neck. I rarely had to cast chain healing. The rain and wellspring with cloudburst was enough to keep grp up with some riptide and spot healing.

    2/1/0/2/0/3/2

  17. #37
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I will absolutely take the buffs, especially to HW and HS. Now I just need them to make Earthshield baseline again

    I haven't tried Wellspring yet, but in general that tier feels kinda meh for m+ regardless.

    The healing rain buff was weird, since I find that if I'm not getting value out of HR, it's because of the nature of the fight (positioning, movement, group size/comp, whatever) and not the state of the spell itself. But I guess I shouldn't complain about buffs!

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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tziva View Post
    I will absolutely take the buffs, especially to HW and HS. Now I just need them to make Earthshield baseline again

    I haven't tried Wellspring yet, but in general that tier feels kinda meh for m+ regardless.

    The healing rain buff was weird, since I find that if I'm not getting value out of HR, it's because of the nature of the fight (positioning, movement, group size/comp, whatever) and not the state of the spell itself. But I guess I shouldn't complain about buffs!
    healing rain is more for raid settings. It also works if you bring 3 melee dps to your dungeon run. it's been a meh spell this expansion so good to see the buffs. it definetly helps people running cloudburst and overheal essence. I have never like CBT I always ran tidal waves in dungeons and new artifact weapon talent for raids.

    On a side note it makes a lot of sense that resto would be weak at the beginning of the expansion with the tidestone in queen Azshara's grasp. Now that we have taken her down the power of the seas are ours to command again.

  19. #39
    So i healed a +11 Temple last night and it felt "Better" but still it's way behind the other healers in terms of just raw HPS/Mana management. I had to pump 40k HPS on one of the boss's and was completely OOM after... I see Resto Druids pump 60k+ and still be at half mana.

    Earth Shield needs to be baseline again and the mana cost of our spells needs to be reduced even more AND chain heal needs to be a much quicker cast with lower mana cost. Even with those changes i mentioned Resto Shamans still would be middle of the pack at best.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by kevincuomo View Post
    So i healed a +11 Temple last night and it felt "Better" but still it's way behind the other healers in terms of just raw HPS/Mana management. I had to pump 40k HPS on one of the boss's and was completely OOM after... I see Resto Druids pump 60k+ and still be at half mana.

    Earth Shield needs to be baseline again and the mana cost of our spells needs to be reduced even more AND chain heal needs to be a much quicker cast with lower mana cost. Even with those changes i mentioned Resto Shamans still would be middle of the pack at best.
    where to buy mana tide totem would be so awesome with +100% mana regeneration essence.

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