Chernobyl

[luc54]

The "lava" called corium (that's where khorium in wow comes from most likely) would have superheat the thousands of cubic metres of water in the holding tanks under the reactor (it was an approximate of ~20,000 metric ton of water in reality, compared to the 7,000 tons they mention in the show), thus causing a thermonuclear explosion, and eject the contents of all the 4 reactor cores into the air, thus rendering half of the continent into borderline unhabitable (think it as of a 'yellow zone' of the tiberium poisoning in C&C).
What they didnt mention yet, but i reckon they will, it wasnt the only danger of having an explosion, the water table under the reactor was also enough to cause a smaller but still devastating expolosion, but they prevented that (won't say how, the third episode will cover that).

I suggest reading about fusion before claiming you can get fusion with molten nuclear fuel flowing about. It's dangerousely radioactive but it's not going to cause thermonuclear reaction ie. fusion. It can cause chemical explosions and they are nowhere close to strong compared to nuclear ones.

[Najnaj]

Is the recent HBO show Chernobyl accurate? How much of it is fiction? I was thinking it was a documentary but some of it sounds exaggerated to make the story more interesting.

Did people receive so much radiation that they bled through their skin? Was it ever possible for the damaged reactor to explode like a nuclear bomb? Is it possible to knock a helicopter out of the air with radiation alone? At one point the scientist says that if nothing is done, Urkraine and Belarus could be made inhabitable for hundreds of years. True?

The technical stuff is largely correct as yu can see with a quick glance on the wikipedia page.


Also, great typo!! How bad is the Ukraine and Belarus if it takes a nuclear melt down to make the place inhabitable.

[Linkedblade]

Idk, I was a baby living with my parents in Germany at the the time, and they told me everyone was ordered to stay inside for weeks. My dad, along with numerous other soldiers, were assigned to clean off cars, buildings, surfaces, etc all over the base with, I guess, radiation cleaning stuff (idk the name). They all had to wear protective suits.

Probably nothing special. Probably some really gritty all purpose cleaner. All you do if these particles are all over is to wash them off of what they land on.

[laplacedemon]

Yes - radiation is horrific way to go, and it can kill you very quickly if exposed to enough of it (see below re helicopter). A really rough estimate is that if you're exposed, and you start throwing up, you're going to die soon thereafter.

That's because the shorter the time between exposure and vomiting, the higher is the dose of radiation the person's exposed to. If you vomit right after the exposure, you will definitely die in the next ~48 hours. If you throw up in the first 1-1:15 hours, you will most likely die in the next couple of weeks.

Vomiting is not a sign for definite death of course, it's common for patients who get radiation therapy for example.

[cubby]

From the book by Adam Higginbotham, who allegedly spend decades doing Chernobyl research and witness interviews:

https://thebulletin.org/2019/05/the-...-of-chernobyl/

Exactly. A thing I was asked about the other day was, “I was disappointed to see that you didn’t report about the helicopter that crashed during the bombing operation.” You’ve seen the film on YouTube. Well, that film was shot of a helicopter crashing beside a reactor on October 6, 1986, months after the fire had gone out, months after this operation had finished.

The crisis meeting with Master Luwin was made up because the writer in charge wanted to present a summary of the local government's reaction to the Chernobyl crisis in a way that would be easily digestible by the viewers. Since this is not a documentary, he took artistic liberties with his representation of the denial and cover-up that was present at that local government level. I believe they address this in the podcast after the show. This is similar to what they did with the girl scientist character - she represents an amalgamation of the scientific community of SU from that time.

Furthermore, people in charge of the plant (Bryukhanov and Fomin) reported directly to Moscow, bypassing any local government or party members. They would certainly not be accountable to anyone at a local government level.

Excellent - thank you for that, and the clarification of what I was missing. Good stuff.

[Dogpaws73]

There is an HBO podcast named "Chernobyl" where the producer discusses what changes was made between actual events and artistic liberties. Not a whole lot of changes was needed, other than a few things to heighten screen presence. Highly recommended to listen, especially after each show.

It's scary stuff. I'm also reading the book Midnight in Chernobyl and recommend that to anyone wanting to get into a full account of what happened (and what could have happened.) I feel for those first emergency providers who when in there not knowing that literal death was at their feet trying to put out a fire.

[Kreo]

There is a decent documentary on Chernobyl by PBS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...qZMuE1zN8YcOR9 with a lot of original footage.

Learning actual info from HBO Chernobyl it's like getting education from bumper stickers. Looks great and goes well with beer/wings but as for accurate info...Just no.

[PACOX]

The reaction was under control, it was a water pressure issue that caused the explosion (a steam pressure explosion) and it opening obviously released radiation and super hot graphite.

Im not exactly sure of what the levels of radiation would do, but the graphite I would imagine would cause terrible burns.

They covered the open reactor and I believe it and the entire facility continued to produce electricity until the early 2000s.

The biggest issue isn't Chernobyl, it's all of the towns there that had so much radioactive refuse dumped into those nearby lakes. Absolutely crazy.

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I think Hiroshima and Nagasaki are worse. At least in Chernobyl people were able to escape.

It wasn't under control if the core exploded. They tried to run a test where they could residual energy from the turbines to keep the core stable in the event of a total blackout unless the backups could be turned on. It didn't work, the reactor was still way too hot and pressure cooked itself.

Also the question of 'what was worse, Chernobyl or Hiroshima' depends on what you're measuring. The bombs killed more people in an instant. Chernobyl was 'dirtier'.

[Easo]

I'll wait for you to figure out the logical inconsistency of your statement above. Or can we all start commenting on things we haven't seen?

Don't have to. I know why it crashed in real life, so the show's DRAMA version does not really matter to me, unless someone starts to believe it.

Firebombing doesn't cause he spread of radioactive particles.

Yet killed more people than nukes together. Plus nukes leave a different fallout pattern than what the Chernobyl did - resulting in both cities being inhabited, while Chernobyl is deserted and will be for decades to come.

[cubby]

Don't have to. I know why it crashed in real life, so the show's DRAMA version does not really matter to me, unless someone starts to believe it.

Wouldn't it have been nifty to say that in the first place, instead of leading with douchebag hostility? If you want to see the right way to go, see the long post on Page 2 by I Push Buttons of this thread. You lying doesn't help either. This is a discussion, not a flame pit. Trolls can go that-a-way. ----->

The link @I Push Buttons provided as well as the information was great. Something you might want to try out next time. Also, last but not least, there is info out there - documented, suggesting the helicopter crash happened on day two instead of months later. I happen to go with I Push Buttons' version because of his links and other info provided.

Here - since you're so confused about the difference between a fairly accurate docu-drama and a Disney cartoon.

27 April

The Ukrainian filmmaker Vladimir Shevchenko captured film footage of an Mi-8 helicopter as its main rotor collided with a nearby construction crane cable resulting in the death of its four-man crew. The photo of the helicopters crew shown in the video clip below was taken by Igor Kostin the day before the crash.

But please, do go on about how your snide and childish remarks somehow give you any kind of credence in an adult discussion.

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There is an HBO podcast named "Chernobyl" where the producer discusses what changes was made between actual events and artistic liberties. Not a whole lot of changes was needed, other than a few things to heighten screen presence. Highly recommended to listen, especially after each show.

It's scary stuff. I'm also reading the book Midnight in Chernobyl and recommend that to anyone wanting to get into a full account of what happened (and what could have happened.) I feel for those first emergency providers who when in there not knowing that literal death was at their feet trying to put out a fire.

I'll have to check that out - it will be interesting to see what minor changes they made. Thanks for that!

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There is a decent documentary on Chernobyl by PBS https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...qZMuE1zN8YcOR9 with a lot of original footage.

Learning actual info from HBO Chernobyl it's like getting education from bumper stickers. Looks great and goes well with beer/wings but as for accurate info...Just no.

And yet it is very accurate information. I wish people could find some middle ground between ignorant hostility and know-it-all contempt. Is the HBO Chernobyl precisely accurate? No. Is it close? Yes. Does the director tell you that up front? Yes.

Conclusion: great info in a fantastic forum.

[Koriani]

So far - every article I've read on this miniseries says they're pretty much documentary-style with the events.

So yea, some poetic license with the individual people stories/drama I'm sure - but the events themselves and how all this went down (and how it was covered up) - pretty accurate to history.

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Yes, one of the only reasons Chernobyl can even be visited today is because of a massive cleanup (that was so expensive that it is one of the big contributors to the collapse of the Soviet Union) that simply wouldn't be possible if the above described massive steam explosion occurred... Where they scrubbed surfaces over a large area, disposed of the topsoil across huge swaths of land, etc., involving hundreds of thousands of people (Chernobyl liquidators). If the entire region were contaminated to a similar extent, a cleanup of that extent would not be realistic and/or feasible.

[/quote]

CAN be visited - in SHORT visits. Yes.

But the whole area is still not inhabitable. If you go for visits, its strictly timed (that's how short a time you can spend - couple hours maybe?). You can't eat anything, drink anything, take anything - and I sure as hell still wouldn't touch much if I could help it. The animals are mutated and provide very interesting science .

ANd that's only really recently have they allowed people to visit for short stints of time.

The show, "River Monsters" did an episode at Chernobyl. THe guy was fishing in the runoff pools. Interesting stuff.

~~

As 'im telling my friends who would be into watching a docu-series like this - this show is DARK. Because yea, it is pretty true. Hubby has to be in the right frame of mind to even watch this show - because yea, that's what radiation does and yea, it should disturb you how the "higher ups" handled it.

Great show. Accurate where its important, not taking liberties with the stuff that doesn't need it (i.e. not making radiation poisoning effects worse, just compiling some scientists into one). They dont need to take liberties for effect - they don't have to. The truth is dramatic enough.

But damn, its dark. If this show doesn't make you pause - you're not paying attention. (And I don't mean pause about nuke power or pause about communism.) Just scary, real, stuff.

And I love the trollers just convinced tv programming can't be near the truth if it doesn't say "documentary." Ha ha. Fine - don't educate yourself and miss some quality TV. *shrugs*

[Polyxo]

So far - every article I've read on this miniseries says they're pretty much documentary-style with the events.

So yea, some poetic license with the individual people stories/drama I'm sure - but the events themselves and how all this went down (and how it was covered up) - pretty accurate to history.

Some of the characters are composites and edited versions of people. The hand melting doesn't usually happen that quickly.

About the helicopter crash. They wouldn't have been incapacitated that quickly (if that's what people are thinking), but the pilots were flying into smoke in the show, so couldn't see...and the radiation is accurately strong enough to mess up radio reception. The radiation did really hamper cleanups. I'm sure in the next episode or two, they'll show the first attempts to clean up the roof and stuff, being done by radio controlled robots (which all failed), so they sent in "bio-robots" (people).

[cubby]

So far - every article I've read on this miniseries says they're pretty much documentary-style with the events.

So yea, some poetic license with the individual people stories/drama I'm sure - but the events themselves and how all this went down (and how it was covered up) - pretty accurate to history.

CAN be visited - in SHORT visits. Yes.

But the whole area is still not inhabitable. If you go for visits, its strictly timed (that's how short a time you can spend - couple hours maybe?). You can't eat anything, drink anything, take anything - and I sure as hell still wouldn't touch much if I could help it. The animals are mutated and provide very interesting science .

ANd that's only really recently have they allowed people to visit for short stints of time.

The show, "River Monsters" did an episode at Chernobyl. THe guy was fishing in the runoff pools. Interesting stuff.

I might have to catch that episode.

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Some of the characters are composites and edited versions of people. The hand melting doesn't usually happen that quickly.

Like the leading female scientist representing hundreds of others who chimed in and risked their lives. I'm not so sure about the hand melting. He was almost literally picking up a piece of the core.

About the helicopter crash. They wouldn't have been incapacitated that quickly (if that's what people are thinking), but the pilots were flying into smoke in the show, so couldn't see...and the radiation is accurately strong enough to mess up radio reception. The radiation did really hamper cleanups. I'm sure in the next episode or two, they'll show the first attempts to clean up the roof and stuff, being done by radio controlled robots (which all failed), so they sent in "bio-robots" (people).

They could have been incapacitated, but yeah, probably the smoke. This site is saying a crash did occur on Day 2.

[Easo]

Wouldn't it have been nifty to say that in the first place, instead of leading with douchebag hostility? If you want to see the right way to go, see the long post on Page 2 by I Push Buttons of this thread. You lying doesn't help either. This is a discussion, not a flame pit. Trolls can go that-a-way. ----->

The link @I Push Buttons provided as well as the information was great. Something you might want to try out next time. Also, last but not least, there is info out there - documented, suggesting the helicopter crash happened on day two instead of months later. I happen to go with I Push Buttons' version because of his links and other info provided.

My whole point was that someone should know more about the biggest nuclear catastrophe from real sources, than a TV show.
Still not sure how I lied though, but seeing that you are as hostile as you make me out to be...

[Polyxo]

I might have to catch that episode.

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Like the leading female scientist representing hundreds of others who chimed in and risked their lives. I'm not so sure about the hand melting. He was almost literally picking up a piece of the core.




They could have been incapacitated, but yeah, probably the smoke. This site is saying a crash did occur on Day 2.

I mentioned this earlier, but my understanding of the hand melting was that it was largely 'skin hemorrhaging', where the blood vessels close to the skin begin to degrade and break down (leaking blood), and the skin does teh same...so blood just kind of oozes out of that area. It wouldn't happen that quickly though. It'd take a while.

[cubby]

My whole point was that someone should know more about the biggest nuclear catastrophe from real sources, than a TV show.
Still not sure how I lied though, but seeing that you are as hostile as you make me out to be...

You said the HBO series was as accurate as Moana. A lie. If you're confused about that I can help - just ask!

The show is highly accurate, and is transparent about the portions that were changed. But please go on about something you didn't watch. It's adorable.

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I mentioned this earlier, but my understanding of the hand melting was that it was largely 'skin hemorrhaging', where the blood vessels close to the skin begin to degrade and break down (leaking blood), and the skin does teh same...so blood just kind of oozes out of that area. It wouldn't happen that quickly though. It'd take a while.

Ah, gotcha - and yeah, melting is a pretty nebulous word when it comes to radiation exposure. The biological breakdown is more precise.

[Koriani]

My whole point was that someone should know more about the biggest nuclear catastrophe from real sources, than a TV show.
Still not sure how I lied though, but seeing that you are as hostile as you make me out to be...

Absolutely agree with your first sentence.

Unfortunately, "sign of the times" - if they only learn it from the TV show - then its one step more than before! And one step ahead from those who don't bother to do either. :/

At the very least, it will cause some people who had no idea - to go learn more. That's all we can ask.

[cubby]

Absolutely agree with your first sentence.

Unfortunately, "sign of the times" - if they only learn it from the TV show - then its one step more than before! And one step ahead from those who don't bother to do either. :/

At the very least, it will cause some people who had no idea - to go learn more. That's all we can ask.

So you watched it? Can pick apart the scenes that were "wrong". We're all ears.

[IIamaKing]

Im watching the show as a thriller/horror flick with a fictional spin on the real events.

[cubby]

Im watching the show as a thriller/horror flick with a fictional spin on the real events.

It's surprising accurate to events, with the changes openly discussed by the director/producer at the end of each episode (or fully in the above linked).