Idea's to make Classic's raid "Harder"

[Soluna]

TLR This is after players have cleared it already, ways that the top guilds can challenge themselves much like the ironman challenge its similar to gimping one's self in order to do something harder.

Less people is basically the first thing that comes to mind, entering Naxx with 20 players and clearing it would be an achievement.. not sure if its possible however.
1-10% mob damage/hp buff i wonder if this would even be possible because you'd want to adjust all the skill damage as well.. but it'd be too much work so perhaps a "players deal 1-10% less damage and take 1-10% more damage"
I also believe players will speed run the raids on their own and likely have timer addons so that blizzard adding one wouldn't be much use.

I do think the player damage taken/reduced output would be the best thing blizzard could do to tune up the classic raids harder.
And i think if the dev's were up for it scaling Karazhan to 60 would be awesome.. and the line i'd personally draw on extra content, anything else would just be scaling down the next expansion of content and by then a server for it would be better, but it would be interesting to see the Wow dev's model Karazhan the way they wanted/would've wanted to do back then perhaps including the entire place.


Now i understand some people don't want to think ahead or have any changes and of course i don't suggest these during the play cycle or even 6 months after their release i'm talking about when most people have done raids already and guilds are looking at timed runs at that stage, but i thought about having a player debuff being the best and easiest thing from a dev point of view to put into classic and should at least tell somebody else so that in 3 years time maybe it gets repeated to the right person.

(I loathe beta's i hate losing progress but i'm so hyped i almost want to play the beta!!)

If you want to have a 10% dmg done less, or 10% dmg taken more, just unequip your chestpiece, and wear a sword from molten core when you go in naxx. Stop asking for changes.

[sunwrathmother]

Tuning bosses to hit harder is bad for classic.
Removing world buffs will remove the identity of the game so its a no for me as well.
Mythic/heroic/normal raids is a big NO as well for classic I dont need to expand on that.

The only time I remember raiders enjoying harder raids were back in WotLK when you could activate hard mode in Ulduar.

So maybe an item after killing KT that will enable hard modes in MC with slightly better loot and better item set bonuses. After killing Ragnaros hard mode, then another item can activate hard mode in BWL and so on.

But still, I would prefere no chages at least for the first 5 years of Classic.

[Sencha]

Stop with the scaling. It is ruining retail WoW already. Scaling is the Ion's way to do the exact same content again and again during a whole expansion.

If you overgear content, go to next raid tier and that's it. By the time you have cleared Naxx (and basically "beat the game"), BC classic will be released.

[Marston]

Rather run with it less people => Less loot competition.

The only answer. I am also rather sure most dungeons can be done with 3-4 people (unless severely undergeared/underleveld) and the early raids can definitly be done with 20-30 people. Most early bosses don't even have hard enrages.

[huth]

The only answer. I am also rather sure most dungeons can be done with 3-4 people (unless severely undergeared/underleveld) and the early raids can definitly be done with 20-30 people. Most early bosses don't even have hard enrages.

We had a group dedicated doing Onyxia with as few people as possible on our server in Vanilla. I'm not sure anymore how far they got, but they definitely dropped below having to make it a raid.

None for Molten Core, though. Mostly because everybody was sick and tired of that place long before Vanilla was over.

- - - Updated - - -

People are playing classic largely because they've lost faith in Blizzard's ability to make decisions that they enjoy, so asking blizzard to create new content is counter-intuitive to that mindset.

Gives you an idea how reality based the mindset is, though.

[tratra]

No need for changes, classic is about the journey, the pvp, exploration, lvling, friends, grind whatever. There are guilds that will clear naxx the first few hours its out and its expected, there are others that will wipe in there for a month or so, thats also expected. Eventually you'll end up with most guilds that are afloat and okish in numbers clearing all content, not like the old days where you just couldn't get passed a few bosses including 4hm. Nowadays mechanics are too easy, grind is the only thing in the way and having the right numbers to fill your raid. But who cares, all those private servers have been afloat for a while even with having naxxramas on full farm, cause even after you get full t3 you can still go do some pvp, have fun, maybe lvl an alt etc etc. Then TBC??? Or as they said they are exploring the possibilities of extending vanilla content and developing it further if vanilla is something that people want. I'd love to see the Emerald Dream done right etc and again thats blizzards words on the possibility of developing vanilla content further.

Maybe at the end wow killer was actually wow itself and by releasing vanilla they'll kill current retail and take the game towards what it was in vanilla.

[nodlimax]

It isn't necessary to adjust the content of WoW Classic (scaling). Players can create their own challenges.
1. Speedruns (Super Mario style)
2. Less people to clear the content
3. Do it only with a specific class (I think I remember raid groups only consisting of druids or paladins or shamans - no idea if it is possible with rogues or warriors)

You could even do long term challenges like "Guild creates completely new characters on level 1 and tries to kill Ragnaros/ as fast as possible" and they could use all available speed level and equipment methods available just to see how fast one can do that.

With a game that constantly goes forward in terms of features and content these kind of challenges are always hard, because what do you take as a point of reference when you attempt these challenges? A new patch changes everything - near gear, balance changes and so on...

[ManiaCCC]

When are people going to understand "Classic" means just fucking that. Classic.

Not "Classic" with bonus bits. Not "Classic" with extra content shoved in. Not Classic with QoL changes (as much as I want them) and improved graphics.

Classic is fucking Classic. As it was. No changes.



When will people stop making these shitty threads and realise it isn't going to happen.

That's the problem, according devs, everything is on table, including new content for classic. So if enough people will want it and it will be financially viable for them, they will go for it.

Few years ago, people were in denial, that one day Blizzard will create own classic server - and here we are.

[Big Thanks]

Someone should start and come up with "rules" for this challenge

Like...no rogues, warriors and mages allowed etc

[Thage]

So far, the only changes made are necessary compromises with the modern server infrastructure and battle.net integration. They've said they'll consider changes once the game's had time to breathe (probably not until many guilds have Naxx on farm), and even then ideally it will be a separate server pool so there are at least some 'pure' Classic servers for preservation's sake.

[kamuimac]

When are people going to understand "Classic" means just fucking that. Classic.

Not "Classic" with bonus bits. Not "Classic" with extra content shoved in. Not Classic with QoL changes (as much as I want them) and improved graphics.

Classic is fucking Classic. As it was. No changes.



When will people stop making these shitty threads and realise it isn't going to happen.

they never wanted vanilla

they wanted Nost with its shitty overtuned database to pretend how "hardcore" they are.

and when people told them "but vanilla was easy mode" they were like "no bro what do you mean Nost is so hardcore and so will classic be"

[Big Thanks]

they never wanted vanilla

they wanted Nost with its shitty overtuned database to pretend how "hardcore" they are.

and when people told them "but vanilla was easy mode" they were like "no bro what do you mean Nost is so hardcore and so will classic be"

Show me a link of someone asking Classic to be like Nost and not Classic to be like Vanilla.

[Thage]

Show me a link of someone asking Classic to be like Nost and not Classic to be like Vanilla.

If I might interject here and try to keep things from getting too heated.

I think Kamu was trying to say that peoples' memories of Vanilla may be a bit stilted, because popular Vanilla private servers have admitted to overtuning mobs and bosses to account for 10+ years' worth of knowledge of the mechanics, to keep it challenging. A lot of the damage equations for mobs and bosses was also guesswork, as were their abilities, so liberties were taken that erred on the side of challenging. For example, in Dire Maul, ogre mages would immediately begin casting in another school if one was interrupted, with no cooldown whatsoever, which is almost definitely not the intended reaction, and the roc farm in Tanaris is only possible because they're missing their flame spit ability.

So with this taken into account, and with Blizzard having the official values and abilities in place, Classic probably does feel notably easier than Nost/MangOS-based servers due to the liberties that were taken out of necessity/to keep it challenging for veteran players. However, what we were promised was as close to the official 1.12 experience as possible, with some changes born of necessity, and that's what we're getting. Any adjustments to difficulty/balance/etc. should take place on a Remaster server option, imo.

[Daevied]

Are ppl already raiding on beta?

[Outofmana]

Basically raiding will evolve around 'speedrunning'. There's already 21min BWL and sub 30min AQ40s being done currently, which will be the challenge, not the clearing part. This way the raids won't even need harder tuning, they'll always have a challenge.

As for Naxx being tuned harder, that's a change I'd never do, I experienced this and it just made Sapphiron and KT unkillable for any guild above the top3 innitially and put massive consumable restraints on guilds.

Just remove worldbuffs, makes it less of a hassle for players to prepare for raids, and will make sure 'lesser' guilds' raidnight won't be 3 hours longer the moment they wipe their worldbuffs. On Privates, the first few weeks without worldbuffs made Naxx/AQ40 way more interesting anyway (as it did in actual vanilla, guilds only getting worldbuffs for Sapp/KT basically back then), not being able to bruteforce through every single mechanic (with worldbuffs; no huhuran poison resist, no heigan dance, no gluth decimate, no noth balcony, the list goes on).

[Mayia]

Stop with the scaling. It is ruining retail WoW already. Scaling is the Ion's way to do the exact same content again and again during a whole expansion.

If you overgear content, go to next raid tier and that's it. By the time you have cleared Naxx (and basically "beat the game"), BC classic will be released.

Well that is the issue isn't it, because some people will not want to progress onto BC, they'll want to keep doing naxx.
So i'm talking about *At that point* what would it hurt if one classic server got added that had scaling damage items so method-like guilds could bash their heads on the hardest fights in wow with a slider to make it even harder.

I almost think the ICC scaling buff was the closest we got to something the top 1% could strive for while the rest of people could clear it on "normal" kind of like mythic is now, but like what would the world first race look like, if after mythic jaina method then attempted mythic + 3 jaina, it might end up being too much in that situation, but having a Molten core + could certainly keep it interesting even if the raid drops weren't great.

and the "just take it off" argument from arrogance doesn't work it'd be impossible to judge one raid from another based on "well these 8 people took off their belts thus guild A is better than guild B"
Where as "Limit used the -20% damage done debuff in molten core (you can see it active!) and they cleared the raid in 4 hours, where method used -30% and cleared in 4 hours!

[Sofo1]

Well that is the issue isn't it, because some people will not want to progress onto BC, they'll want to keep doing naxx.
So i'm talking about *At that point* what would it hurt if one classic server got added that had scaling damage items so method-like guilds could bash their heads on the hardest fights in wow with a slider to make it even harder.

I almost think the ICC scaling buff was the closest we got to something the top 1% could strive for while the rest of people could clear it on "normal" kind of like mythic is now, but like what would the world first race look like, if after mythic jaina method then attempted mythic + 3 jaina, it might end up being too much in that situation, but having a Molten core + could certainly keep it interesting even if the raid drops weren't great.

and the "just take it off" argument from arrogance doesn't work it'd be impossible to judge one raid from another based on "well these 8 people took off their belts thus guild A is better than guild B"
Where as "Limit used the -20% damage done debuff in molten core (you can see it active!) and they cleared the raid in 4 hours, where method used -30% and cleared in 4 hours!

if they want changes by then, just make a new realm where people can port their characters to, no need to change the classic server

[White Goodman1]

"No mythic -version? Classic sucks!"

[sourlol]

Just bring a balanced raid comp and refuse to look up strats.

Bring 5 of everything. Until naxx, then bring 8 warriors and make some cuts.

The min maxers want as many mages and warriors as possible. Having twice the hunters should help. 12-15 (assuming one spriest, ret/enh, feral) healers is probably overkill with player skill in 2019, too.

Add in no guild requirement to have a raid spec and you’re golden.

You’ll have PvP mages and ele specced resto sham. So long as folks farm their resist gear and aq and beyond consumes, you’ll clear what you want to, it’ll just take longer.

[draynay]

Am I the only one infuriated by the thread title punctuation?

Also I'm surprised "bring a bunch of ret palys" wasn't the first suggestion.