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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    I'd rather blizzard focus on making the game fun and interesting before adding in pointless side-crap like "housing"
    This just in, the game designers are the same people as the artists.

    Also - knowing Blizzard and their inability to keep content around housing would be a major feature of say, 10.0 - but be forgotten and removed in 11.0.
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  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    This just in, the game designers are the same people as the artists.
    ah yes, because to implement housing, you just have to make the 3d models and then it's done, no programming required, no scripting required, no server design required, nope

    Thanks for confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.
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  3. #223
    Warchief Themerlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Not just "I want Housing", or "I think it would be a good idea..."

    No.

    I think Blizzard is being STUPID.

    Everyone wants to point to Warlords of Draenor, like it was some sort of "real attempt" at a housing system. It wasn't; it was half-assed, and anyone who has even TOUCHED another MMO could look at Garrisons and see, there was zero passion behind it. Nothing about it was fun or interesting, it didn't offer any ACTUAL personal customization. Everyone's Garrisons were identical.

    I think a real, legit Housing system -- especially something that allows you to see other players' houses easily (like FFXIV's system, albeit fairly restrictive) -- would not only satisfying a real, long-standing demand players have had, but would actually attract players *back* to WoW.

    Hell, you could even springboard an entire profession off of it, like Carpentry (hell, even introduce Lumberjack/Woodcutting as a new gathering skill), focused exclusively towards building tons of house-items. And of course, you could have various bosses throughout the entire game drop new items, trophies, even leverage something like Archaeology for additional stuff.

    Personally? I would give each player a single "island" to build their house and decorate to their hearts content, and have a limited number of "premium" houses throughout the game, which would be unique to that server. So maybe, while everyone has access to a house of SOME kind, the coolest houses would be ones based in specific locations, like Hrothgar's Landing (just north of the Argent Tournament in Icecrown), or maybe one of those previously-inaccessible houses places somewhere in the mountains of the world.

    But even if it's just totally instanced-off "islands", I still think there would be a huge draw. Just let players visit the "islands" of other players, either in their guild, friends list, or even a "visit random house".

    I dunno. I just really think Blizzard is fucking up by NOT adding a proper, fully-fledged housing system. It might not be EVERYONE'S cup of tea, but I think the MMO industry has proven that Housing, as a feature, is here to stay and not a fluke. It would just give players an additional layer of "things they can do" when they log in.

    Just... don't add any GAMEPLAY-affecting reasons to have a House. No "buffs", no "free/extra resources", just an ENTIRELY OPTIONAL thing. Because nothing makes things less fun that feeling *obligated* to do them.
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  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    ah yes, because to implement housing, you just have to make the 3d models and then it's done, no programming required, no scripting required, no server design required, nope

    Thanks for confirming you have no idea what you're talking about.
    Hit me up when programmers in a big game studio like Blizzard are in charge of the 'fun and interesting' part in a video game -- then maybe you'll have a point. 'Till then, enjoy thinking Housing would take much away from the game designers.
    "Your name was stolen? I see... Well, I guess that happens from time to time..."


  5. #225
    The Lightbringer Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    The thing is that most games are played to overcome a challenge. At least that's why I play games. So in that sense it wasn't meaningless unless we start being philosophical and call alla games meaningless, which they are in a sense.

    Rewards are part of the goal, the challenge is what gives something meaning. Housing woul in of itself not give any meaning and would just be a goal of content we already have but now they give housing rewards too.

    I don't mind if they add that, but housing would require a system to be created and that effort I personally find to be more well spent elsewhere.

    Housing won't make the game worse, but if the gameplay content isn't good housing won't really save it I think. Except for people who play games just to build stuff. Like Fallout 4 etc etc.
    And yet one of the most challenging games out there, Path of Exile, manages to get the housing part just fine. E.g. killing tough bosses, and completing challenging content in general, gives you exclusive decorations and furniture, which feels far more rewarding than title #2845726 and mount #3846593 in WoW. And since you will probably be trading a lot with other players, they get to see your cool "hideout" with all those badass trophies you've earned in your PoE career.
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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    And yet one of the most challenging games out there, Path of Exile, manages to get the housing part just fine. E.g. killing tough bosses, and completing challenging content in general, gives you exclusive decorations and furniture, which feels far more rewarding than title #2845726 and mount #3846593 in WoW. And since you will probably be trading a lot with other players, they get to see your cool "hideout" with all those badass trophies you've earned in your PoE career.
    Not sure what you even arguing against, can't be anything I've said, since I haven't said housing can't work, especially for those that likes it.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by wanax View Post
    Wow used to have class quests every few levels that rewarded special gear or abilities. I fondly remember going all over the world for my whirlwind quest and berserker stance quest
    I know. My old warrior still has Whirlwind axe laying around on it somewhere. And I still do not understand why it was removed. Final Fantasy's classes are amazing, and their story questing as well, Blizzard needs to start taking a good look at themselves and others and understand what they can do

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    The core issue is probably that housing is too personal and isolated from the world. I get that they could have special housing parts be obtained from multiplayer gameplay, but ultimately you're still encouraging the player to spend a lot of time alone in their own little instance doing their own thing. IMO that's a hard sell in an MMO.

    That said I'd like something akin to a Guild palace or airship, where guild achievements that be displayed as trophies and officers can customize the place according to race, class, and other aesthetics.

    The Clan Dojo of Warframe is a good starting point IMO, minus the gameplay-enhancing modules it has.
    It's only a problem when you're actively ENCOURAGING players to remain isolated, such a Garrisons. As long as they are COMPLETELY optional and COMPLETELY cosmetic, that should never be an issue. No more than just "doing solo transmog runs" in any case.

    I would provide *ZERO* "conveniences" for them, as well. No "portals" or quick-travel options (other than to and from your own personal island), just make it an additional feature that you can interact with as much as you feel like.

  9. #229
    I don't know if they are stupid.
    But I know that there is definitely an audience for this.
    I know some people who are still bound to their freaking garrison.. Even if I hated, some people like it. So if it's optional why not? But if it's really needed to progress my character no thanks
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  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    I know. My old warrior still has Whirlwind axe laying around on it somewhere. And I still do not understand why it was removed. Final Fantasy's classes are amazing, and their story questing as well, Blizzard needs to start taking a good look at themselves and others and understand what they can do
    I feel bad I sold mine ages ago but since the quest was ticked off I can xmog all three if I want. I hope they come back around to strong class identity like that. I thought Legion was a step in the right direction with class halls but BfA was 3 steps back.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You lose nothing if you drop your subscription in SWTOR. I don't even know wich game you are talking about cause as i mentioned FFIX is not an mmo.

    I don't know how housing in Black desert and Rift is as i didn't play them. But the housing in SWTOR is awesome. And that is enough for me to want the same thing in WoW.
    Since i guess you are one of the people that flip at Warfronts and island expeditions, tose resources could go to it instead and you'd be unaffected. Besides Housing is evergreen content. There's no better use of resources than content that is always relevant. It actually can breathe new life into old content if decorations are added to old content. It adds vitality to the whole game. If you are that adamant about not wanting to like it, so be it. But many people are clearly interested in it and it will populate all kinds of content. So, even if you don't care about it, even you benefit from it.
    Not to mention that if you are not interested you can sell decorations for guild and make profit. Everybody wins.

    I mean think about it, housing or another warfront and a couple of island expeditions? I think one is gonna be more useful to players and become relevant for a lot longer than the other.
    I was talking about the FF MMO, dunno whether it's 14 or 16, it's the one that makes everyone's panties wet here, especially some individuals. I mean, you can tell what game am I talking about from the description.

    And like I said, people here praise it like it's the best thing ever, but they never mention you gotta keep the sub rolling, else you lose all your precious crap. Plus, if you look anywhere else, you can see that it's not that great, in fact most people don't give two shits about it.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    It's only a problem when you're actively ENCOURAGING players to remain isolated, such a Garrisons. As long as they are COMPLETELY optional and COMPLETELY cosmetic, that should never be an issue. No more than just "doing solo transmog runs" in any case.

    I would provide *ZERO* "conveniences" for them, as well. No "portals" or quick-travel options (other than to and from your own personal island), just make it an additional feature that you can interact with as much as you feel like.
    Solo mog runs aren't much comparable given that they were multiplayer content at some point previously. Housing would be content 100% made for solo players, and if it is done I'd rather it not be half-assed, which means it would use up a not insignificant amount of resources that I'd also prefer spent elsewhere.

  13. #233
    rift had/has a great housing system from what i remember...they had rankings for people to vote, people could go in if the house was open for everyone and explore/do the games they had in them. it was a nice touch...i remember one having jump skills/walking carefully on ledges, it's one of those things i'd never do but i'd happily explore one or two once in a blue moon.

  14. #234
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    The nice part of housing is that if you aren't interested, you can just not participate in it, and your toon(s) won't be any less powerful for that. Much like xmog or pet battles, it would be a nice, harmless side activity.
    .
    Which I don't theoretically mind, depending on the resources taken from other things in the game. Pet battles and transmog feel like they took minimal resources. A good housing system feels like it would take many more resources. That said, your answer doesn't provide a justification for why people want this aside from 'I want it because I want it!' I simply don't think more than small minority of people will really do much with their housing and so I don't think it's a good idea to spend significant resources to create.

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    which means it would use up a not insignificant amount of resources that I'd also prefer spent elsewhere.
    This argument against housing has always been a tired one. They have different teams for different things. And besides, why are your wants more important than mine? I could give a shit and a half about new raids that I won't bother seeing until an expansion or two later, and even less than that about new battlegrounds or arenas but they keep using resources on that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Which I don't theoretically mind, depending on the resources taken from other things in the game. Pet battles and transmog feel like they took minimal resources. A good housing system feels like it would take many more resources. That said, your answer doesn't provide a justification for why people want this aside from 'I want it because I want it!' I simply don't think more than small minority of people will really do much with their housing and so I don't think it's a good idea to spend significant resources to create.
    Reasons to have it:
    - customizable and permanent per-character environment (like transmog but better)
    - roleplaying elements that are sorely lacking in this supposed RPG
    - visual display of achievements, rather than just a boring tab
    - revitalizing a profession system that is generally considered to be one of the worst in the genre
    - goals that can be worked toward with time invested instead of spinning the RNG wheel
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  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Solo mog runs aren't much comparable given that they were multiplayer content at some point previously. Housing would be content 100% made for solo players, and if it is done I'd rather it not be half-assed, which means it would use up a not insignificant amount of resources that I'd also prefer spent elsewhere.
    It's only an up-front development cost, though.

    Once implemented, it becomes the easiest thing in the world to add new house items. They could literally recycle assets they already made (or will make) for new content, basically getting FAR more use out of all the many art-assets they already have.

    Hell, they could even go so far as let you get the assistance of a powerful Druid or Shaman to change the landscape of your own personal island (ie. maybe you want your island to be more akin to a sandy oasis, or want to create a mountain, or an underground cavern). Like Garrisons, you could collect different kinds of music, maybe hire a powerful Mage or something to change the skybox of your personal island.

    It could also double as a gold-sink. Maybe you could pay a Shaman to pull more land to the surface for you to build on, or build a pier and buy different sorts of boats to dock there, all kinds of crazy ideas.

    And hell, given Dalaran was literally "pulled out of the ground and teleported all over the place", it's not insurmountable to think your "house" (or whatever they wind up calling it; "Keep", maybe?) could be "relocated" to different environments, or even placed in "settlements" with other players' houses.

    There's just a lot you could do with it. And, much like Battle Pets, they could continually add items (again, using already-existing art assets) to all kinds of content, adding that much more replay-value for old instances.

  17. #237
    Dreadlord imunreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarethion View Post
    I'm totally aware that it would require a lot of work, but... There's already a metric ton of doodads and decorations used in the in-game structures. A lot of them could be used in a housing system. Some actual building models and assets used to create them could be used as well. Of course they'd have to add quite a bit of new stuff to make it interesting, but I don't think it's as bad as you make it sound, at least not on the art side of things.

    And while I think art-wise creating a decent starter pack for a housing system should be possible, the main concern I have is developing an actual system that would allow a player to not only have his own house, but also have the creative freedom to place these decorations as he sees fit. I'm not a tech guy, so I can't really say, but I imagine WoW's engine wasn't build for anything even close to this, so adding it would likely require a ton of work.

    Still, the main advantage of the system is that once the initial work was done, it would be fairly easy to add more content for it with each patch. They're already developing a ton of art assets for each zone - some of them could get added to the pool of decorations available for player housing. That's one thing. The other is - creating mostly static doodads (e.g. furniture, banners, paintings, etc.) is much easier than making armor and weapons that have to work with a lot of other models or creating fully animated mounts. So in that sense, adding to a housing system could actually be considerably easier than adding to mounts or transmog.

    ---

    So... yes, it would have to be an expansion feature as it's definetely too much work to add something like this mid-expansion, but I don't agree that it's such a titanic endeavor that it couldn't be done or that it would cost us a raid tier. I'd say adding player housing would require a similar amount of work as garrisons or warfronts, so... yeah, I think it's totally doable - the only question is whether it's actually worth the effort to make a purely cosmetic system an expansion's main feature?

    Here I have some doubts. As much I think housing has a ton of potential and I'd like to see something like that added into the game, I think that actual gameplay features currently need more help than player customization and thus I'd rather have the engineers and designers (with support from the art team) work on that rather than develop a big new cosmetic system.

    Especially considering the biggest issue with any player housing - i.e. how to make your house visible enough to other players so that the player expression and customization you get through it actually matters?
    The problem though, is what would we lose to gain it. I believe that is the bigger problem here, not more so if it can be done.

    Look at how much content we lost because of garrisons, I am not going to lie, its not a risk I would be willing to take.

  18. #238
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Briselody View Post
    Reasons to have it:
    - customizable and permanent per-character environment (like transmog but better)
    - roleplaying elements that are sorely lacking in this supposed RPG
    - visual display of achievements, rather than just a boring tab
    - revitalizing a profession system that is generally considered to be one of the worst in the genre
    - goals that can be worked toward with time invested instead of spinning the RNG wheel
    Good points. I don't have a problem with it as a feature (though I doubt I'd use it) as long as it's not a tentpole feature where we lose other core gameplay things. To me, it's like pet battles, transmog and the like - as long as we're not distorting the game to add them, go for it. If they said - "you're getting this but we only get 1/3 of the 5 mans at launch and no more during an expac" then I'd have issues.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    Not just "I want Housing", or "I think it would be a good idea..."

    No.

    I think Blizzard is being STUPID.

    Everyone wants to point to Warlords of Draenor, like it was some sort of "real attempt" at a housing system. It wasn't; it was half-assed, and anyone who has even TOUCHED another MMO could look at Garrisons and see, there was zero passion behind it. Nothing about it was fun or interesting, it didn't offer any ACTUAL personal customization. Everyone's Garrisons were identical.

    I think a real, legit Housing system -- especially something that allows you to see other players' houses easily (like FFXIV's system, albeit fairly restrictive) -- would not only satisfying a real, long-standing demand players have had, but would actually attract players *back* to WoW.

    Hell, you could even springboard an entire profession off of it, like Carpentry (hell, even introduce Lumberjack/Woodcutting as a new gathering skill), focused exclusively towards building tons of house-items. And of course, you could have various bosses throughout the entire game drop new items, trophies, even leverage something like Archaeology for additional stuff.

    Personally? I would give each player a single "island" to build their house and decorate to their hearts content, and have a limited number of "premium" houses throughout the game, which would be unique to that server. So maybe, while everyone has access to a house of SOME kind, the coolest houses would be ones based in specific locations, like Hrothgar's Landing (just north of the Argent Tournament in Icecrown), or maybe one of those previously-inaccessible houses places somewhere in the mountains of the world.

    But even if it's just totally instanced-off "islands", I still think there would be a huge draw. Just let players visit the "islands" of other players, either in their guild, friends list, or even a "visit random house".

    I dunno. I just really think Blizzard is fucking up by NOT adding a proper, fully-fledged housing system. It might not be EVERYONE'S cup of tea, but I think the MMO industry has proven that Housing, as a feature, is here to stay and not a fluke. It would just give players an additional layer of "things they can do" when they log in.

    Just... don't add any GAMEPLAY-affecting reasons to have a House. No "buffs", no "free/extra resources", just an ENTIRELY OPTIONAL thing. Because nothing makes things less fun that feeling *obligated* to do them.
    The main issue that everyone misses about housing is that it's a technical difficulty. I am fairly sure that the Garrison took way too much time to develop and it's basically just a phase than can spawn static buildings. Proper housing where you can customise and place all kinds of stuff is a whole different level of complex.

    This game is very old.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Good points. I don't have a problem with it as a feature (though I doubt I'd use it) as long as it's not a tentpole feature where we lose other core gameplay things. To me, it's like pet battles, transmog and the like - as long as we're not distorting the game to add them, go for it. If they said - "you're getting this but we only get 1/3 of the 5 mans at launch and no more during an expac" then I'd have issues.
    I can agree with this. It should be implemented in the same way that pet battles were, honestly. A separate system that has no bearing on unrelated gameplay, but can be retroactively added to past content as well as expanded upon in new content.
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