I'm just gonna say it; Blizzard is being stupid by NOT implementing a Housing system

[wombinator04]

It'll cost us a raid tier every expac though because they'll have to keep updating it.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

No, garrisons were basically housing. Blizzard is not being stupid by implementing housing, its literally a fucking useless feature that is a waste of a lot of dev time.

[Nhiosis]

I agree 100%. In a game that is so heavily focused on collecting, properly done housing could be a massive hit. You could quite literally integrate most parts of the game into the system. New professions woodworking and lumber harvesting. Patterns for furniture could drop from every aspect of the game at every level (simple chair comes from WC, while some complex piece comes from an end game raid). Houses could be dropped into instanced versions of dozens of locations across all of Azeroth. Not to mention they could integrate it into their cash shop like ESO does ( not saying I want this in any way, but it would increase their profits). It wouldn't be mandatory, just a side game.

It's literally win-win, no reason they should not do it in this stage of the games life cycle.

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No, garrisons were basically housing. Blizzard is not being stupid by implementing housing, its literally a fucking useless feature that is a waste of a lot of dev time.

"useless feature" is incredibly subjective and short sighted. WoWs side games are arguably what have given the game its shelf life up to this point. Just because you don't want the feature doesn't mean its a waste of time. I've never done a pet battle, don't care to ever do a pet battle, but other people find them immensely enjoying. See how that works?

[Spotnick]

As opposed to what...yet another raid? I would sacrifice raids for an entire expansion if it meant adding systems like housing and making other systems like Warfronts / Islands good. WoW **desperately** needs meaningful content outside of dungeons/raids. And no, just because that is what has always been the core content does not mean it should remain that way.

Except it would literally kill the game if they didn't do raids.. so you wouldn't be able to play the SIMS in WoW for long.

[Swnem]

It'll cost us a raid tier every expac though because they'll have to keep updating it.

Nonsense.

Did pet battles cost a tier? Did island expeditions cost a tier? Did warfronts cost a tier? Did mythic+ cost a tier?

Get out with your operation fear. It would be a new expansion feature and after that they just need to keep adding decorations, wich mind you, if you ever bothered to think, will just be the existing assets they have made and are making to construct envyronments already. They hardly need to make new assets for it.

So, yeah... next excuse.

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Except it would literally kill the game if they didn't do raids.. so you wouldn't be able to play the SIMS in WoW for long.

Would it? Raids are pretty pointless atm due to how unrewardimg they are. The story is told through quests and the end-game is mythic+.

Honestly, raids are a waste of resources atm. People get their kills once and that's that. Much easier to gear through mythic+ or outdoor content.

I do want raids to have a return to glory, but much needs to change. Honestly, atm it would be best if the raids were made into a couple of dungeons instead. That's what the end game is about atm.

[KaPe]

Would it? Raids are pretty pointless atm due to how unrewardimg they are. The story is told through quests and the end-game is mythic+.

Honestly, raids are a waste of resources atm. People get their kills once and that's that. Much easier to gear through mythic+ or outdoor content.

I do want raids to have a return to glory, but much needs to change. Honestly, atm it would be best if the raids were made into a couple of dungeons instead. That's what the end game is about atm.

Raids are done by hundreds of thousands of people - and that's just going by wowprogress, so not including LFR and normal. Skipping a raid tier could be disastrous for the game.

Not that it really matters. Three new systems they designed for BFA were a total failure (one of them is getting partially fixed in 8.2) and replacing even a single one of them with housing would work just as well. No need to skip a raid tier, just remove warfronts/island expeditions - no time wasted developing their "amazing NPC AI" that's ultimately useless *and* having a system that can become permament part of the game instead of getting obsoleted with 9.0.

Not to mention that it's somethat that could be comfortably developed in the background throughout several expansions, slowly taking shape until it's ready. It's not tied to any specific patch or expansion and can be released at any time. 'Course, they'd actually have to start working on it at some point and I'm having my doubts.

[Sondrelk]

It is always very easy to say what should have been replaced with housing in hindsight. But take a moment to really consider the implications of that.

Do you think anyone in Blizz dev team thought ot themselves: "Let's make an homage to the RTS games Warcraft started as, but let's make them shit." Or, "Let's make a framework for genuinely fully explorative infinite content, but not make them varied enough"

Blizz devs always go out to attempt to make new content as good as possible, not doing so would just be a terrible business move from every angle.
Secondly, let us assume Blizz had made housing in BfA, instead of Warfronts and Islands. Are you really confident enough that Housing is such an awesome idea on its own that there would be no problems arising from it being the sole new selling feature?
Do you really think the forums would be any less annoyed at Legion 2.0 just because there was a new housing feature that might not even have time to fully blossom into what it should be until next expansion, or even the one after that?


tl;dr: It is easy to say housing should have been added in hindsight, but you have no guarantee that the houses we would have gotten would even be remotely as good as you imagine them to be, and suddenly Blizz is left with nothing new to build upon in the next expansion.

[Forogil]

tl;dr: It is easy to say housing should have been added in hindsight, but you have no guarantee that the houses we would have gotten would even be remotely as good as you imagine them to be, and suddenly Blizz is left with nothing new to build upon in the next expansion.

True, and they already tried it WoD.

Garrison are customizable - and they don't look the same as OP thinks (not only buildings but also different trophies - outdoor and indoors, different guards, seasonal themes, etc). It's just that no-one notices.

[Chemii]

Be the man to figure out how that thing would work technically and architecturally(IT) so that it wouldn't suck(aka. lag) and they'd probably all @#$% your @#$% for it at big companies.

So far, AFAIK, none of the current systems are enticing where-ever they were implemented, and almost always poorly + the lag.


My personal opinion about the subject matter is that it's still not a viable strategy to chase. It's boring the way it can be done and it's impossible for it to work smoothly the way we want it to be done, yet.

I could be wrong, would love to be proven wrong. But right now, only time will tell.

TL : DR. Nah, housing is still a nah!

Black Desert & Wildstar housing systems are and were perfectly fine. Just saying it's "hard" as an excuse is not valid for a billion dollar company.

FYI they use a tool to make the landscape in wow, similar to a map builder (which they've supplied in every RTS game they've made) it wouldn't be so difficult to adapt it for use in-game, like an edit mode in PoE in your hideout. You don't need to see everyone's housing all the time and wow has thousands of assets you can use to make custom anything.

Imagine the garrison space but truly custom. That'd do it.

Hell they could even sell assets on the in-game shop.

[Sondrelk]

True, and they already tried it WoD.

Garrison are customizable - and they don't look the same as OP thinks (not only buildings but also different trophies - outdoor and indoors, different guards, seasonal themes, etc). It's just that no-one notices.

Garrisons were actually exavtly what i was thinking of. Some people do not seem sold on them essentially being player housing.
Sure they are not as customizable as what people have in their heads, and i am sure there are many ways in which they could be improved. But the fact of the matter is that they took time to make, and when WoD came out, all that was left outside the bare-bones of PvE and PvP instances was bumming around in your garrison.
There is a real danger that if another expansion decides to focus on housing the same thing will happen.

Now, to argue the other side a bit, we do now have more infinite system in the form of M+ and WQ/Emmisaries that ensure the outdoor content will be useful in some capacity no matter what, but the fact is that we still have no idea whether a potential housing system would be worth the effort Blizz puts into it, there is a real chance that the system just falls flat out the gate, leaving us with an expansion hobbling around for 2 years because it was hamstrumg by failed mechanics, very similar in fact, to BfA, which as i pointed out, was definitely not made with the intention of being shit, but ended up as such because many of the core systems were poorly designed and optimized.

[Soon-TM]

Except it would literally kill the game if they didn't do raids.. so you wouldn't be able to play the SIMS in WoW for long.

I don't think the people designing boss fights will be in charge of a housing UI. Much like IEs and warfronts haven't prevented them from doing passable raids.

[Mosotti]

You better spend that time to build a house irl.

[Jujudrood]

My biggest thing about housing is that I feel it will be more "novelty" than anything else.
Sure, I mean, they could have tons of customization and such, but how does it pace out?
Will it take an hour to build a house? A day? What kind of interactivity comes with it?
After you decorate it, then what?

Garrisons were like a half-baked idea that then got half-assed into a "player housing" of sorts, but it didn't come with the level of customization people want.
But at the same time, that's about what we can expect from it.
Maybe swap out some prefabs on buildings, add a banner, mount Nef's head on the wall.
But then what? Just stand around and idle until raid?

Like, it seems like a nice novelty, but what kind of longevity does it really have?
I mean, are we eventually gonna build our own cities? If we stop with a house, or a house and a barn then what?
I just don't see the long-term in it, no real progression other than the dreaded "time-gating" over which everyone shits their pants.
So it comes down to a "nice to have novelty" that some will enjoy, others will probably try and move on.

Basically, if it's something like pet battles (ancillary, completely irrelevant to the larger story) then fine. Go for it. Maybe I try it, maybe I don't
If it gets implemented as a core feature that you *must* do, such as Garrisons, then no thanks.

[Wolfrick]

Just to Inform everyone, try out Elder Scrolls Online... its has be best housing system I have ever seen... try it out and then come back here.

I Love world of warcraft, its give me so much joy, I have close to always played it, but for 1 months when i tried out Elder scrolls Online and found out about the housing systems... I lost an ENTIRE MONTH just fixing my houses... nothing else.

So if you ask me, Housing would be like having a second character that you could fix and style up (Nothing like Garriosn) just simple player housing, if we Copy pasted the Elder scrolls online Player Housing system into world of warcraft it would work fine.

Housing will give a huge content boost.

PS: Player housing should be just like real life housing, a place where you can Chill out and put stuff where ever you want, NOthing more nothing less

PSS: and it should be 200% player Choice... no FORCED EXPANSION PROGRESSION quests... leave it as extra content for those that want it ( and with every patch and expansion, add things to it) "Perfect Example Housing in Elder Scrolls online"

[Nhiosis]

PS: Player housing should be just like real life housing, a place where you can Chill out and put stuff where ever you want, NOthing more nothing less

PSS: and it should be 200% player Choice... no FORCED EXPANSION PROGRESSION quests... leave it as extra content for those that want it ( and with every patch and expansion, add things to it) "Perfect Example Housing in Elder Scrolls online"

Exactly. How many of us have favorite spots to logout / hangout while afk? I've been chilling in thunderbluff for over a decade now. Give me the ability to customize a spot and call it my own to do the same.

[Briselody]

Garrisons were actually exavtly what i was thinking of. Some people do not seem sold on them essentially being player housing.
Sure they are not as customizable as what people have in their heads, and i am sure there are many ways in which they could be improved. But the fact of the matter is that they took time to make, and when WoD came out, all that was left outside the bare-bones of PvE and PvP instances was bumming around in your garrison.
There is a real danger that if another expansion decides to focus on housing the same thing will happen.

1. Garrisons are not player housing. They were an attempt to milk RTS nostalgia, much like warfronts. They didn't fail as bad as warfronts, but their biggest problem is lack of staying power. If they had placed them on Azeroth and/or gone with their original idea to have multiple zone options for them, and then developed them past WoD in any way then they would have been a valid excuse for housing. But that's not what they went with. What we got was passable in my opinion - I still go back to mine for various crafting purposes. But it's still not the real deal.

2. Garrisons are not why WoD failed. No matter how many times they try to use it as a scapegoat, WoD was doomed by mismanagement from the very start. Half of the expansion didn't even make it into release.

[Sondrelk]

1. Garrisons are not player housing. They were an attempt to milk RTS nostalgia, much like warfronts. They didn't fail as bad as warfronts, but their biggest problem is lack of staying power. If they had placed them on Azeroth and/or gone with their original idea to have multiple zone options for them, and then developed them past WoD in any way then they would have been a valid excuse for housing. But that's not what they went with. What we got was passable in my opinion - I still go back to mine for various crafting purposes. But it's still not the real deal.

2. Garrisons are not why WoD failed. No matter how many times they try to use it as a scapegoat, WoD was doomed by mismanagement from the very start. Half of the expansion didn't even make it into release.

What part of garrisons is not housing?
The fact that it was tied to an expansion? That it was not moveable?

It had customizable building plots, it had random followers who walked around and made it feel alive, it had music you could change. It was yours in every sense of the word, when you went into it it even said <Your name> Garrison.

The only part of it that is legitimately what makes it more difficult to claim it as player housing is it being too large and expansive to be a house.


Sure, we all want for Blizzard to come out and sneakily announce that 9.0 will have all the requested additions, and also have housing which blows all competition out of the water by being everything to everyone. But what are the odds of it being good enough to start with to be worth investing further into?
Islands are not a very well made system, but i rarely see people argue that over time it can be done well. Mostly i see the forums absolutely crucifying it.

Blizz never sets out to make a bad gameplay system to torture us, they attempt to make a good system in the framework of the game. Sure, it is possible for Blizzard to make a good housing system in theory, but i cannot imagine they will make it as well as people think they will, every expansion has come out roughly 2 years apart, and no matter what happens Blizz still gets thrown shit for taking too long and not making systems that encourage gameplay.
What will happen when Blizzard makes 9.0 or whatever with Housing as a selling feature and it comes at the expense of having less dungeons, or fewer bosses. Or less detailed raiding sets.

Garrisons were not entirely to blame for WoD, of course. But it was still a contributing factor in having less content, faction hubs were largely scrapped because garrisons took too much dev time, and the hubs we eventually got were just hastily thrown together garrison assets with different portals strewn about.

Housing working in other MMOs is not a guarantee it will work in WoW, sure it could be the shining gem of game design upon which all future game systems are measured, but it could also be a totally abhorrent piece of garbage that the forums constantly throw shit at for getting dev attention instead of what they consider more pressing matters.


tl;dr: Are you really that confident that Blizz will actually make Housing perfect enough that it can excuse all of the potential pitfalls Blizz could fall into by focusing too much on an expansion selling point? Garrisons are still there, they are still yours, and you can teleport to them whenever you want. Would you really be okay with Garrisons except far smaller and with only a tiny bit more customization in a shitty cottage near Goldshire or whatever? Because i feel like most poeple wouldnt.

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To make my above point more clear.

In my opinion you can either have a shitty housing system that could have osme charm, sure. It would be pretty boring and bland compared to Garrisons, but it would be easy enough to make.

Or you could have Blizzard focus loads of devs on making proper housing, it could be great, it could be perfect, but it could also be a constant barrage of disappointments and forum posts on how the housing prevented us from getting an Ahn'giraj raid revamp with amazing custom armor and weapons.

Thinking you can get the second one and still expect nothing else in the game to change is just silly.

[alturic]

imo Ultima Online is the only MMO to get housing right.

Honestly, I believe it was due to the perspective. 3D worlds and houses just never felt right, and even more, there is almost ever a real reason to need a house in 3D MMO's.

[Briselody]

What part of garrisons is not housing?
The fact that it was tied to an expansion? That it was not moveable?

Let's start with the fact that it wasn't a house? It was a small city, and the only thing customizable in it was what profession buildings could be strewn around. I don't have a problem with what the garrisons were, but they weren't houses. There was zero personal, character-specific touch to them and that's what people want out of a player house.

To make my above point more clear.

In my opinion you can either have a shitty housing system that could have osme charm, sure. It would be pretty boring and bland compared to Garrisons, but it would be easy enough to make.

Or you could have Blizzard focus loads of devs on making proper housing, it could be great, it could be perfect, but it could also be a constant barrage of disappointments and forum posts on how the housing prevented us from getting an Ahn'giraj raid revamp with amazing custom armor and weapons.

Thinking you can get the second one and still expect nothing else in the game to change is just silly.

That doesn't really make anything more clear.

From what I can tell, your argument against housing is that it can go one of two ways:
1. Blizzard half-asses it and housing sucks.
2. Blizzard whole-asses it and everybody bitches that too much precious developer time went into it.

But if #1 is a reason for them to not bother trying, then why support them adding anything to the game at all? Let's just increase difficulty on Molten Core once a season and let people keep doing that over and over. Why add new raids? They could screw it up. (if it's not coming across, I think this is an asinine argument)

And as far as #2 goes, people will bitch if the sky isn't blue enough, and another set of people will bitch if it's too blue. A fundamental fact of life is that people will bitch about it. Still not a reason to try new things. Player housing wouldn't be something every single person would want to do, and I think everyone is fully aware of that. But the success of transmog and pets and other non-progression related game systems proves that there would be a significant number that would be interested, and I don't think it will take as much developer time as the naysayers seem to think, considering all the art assets are already there.

[Forogil]

Let's start with the fact that it wasn't a house? It was a small city, and the only thing customizable in it was what profession buildings could be strewn around.

Wrong.

You can place trophies in various places (assuming you have earned them) in the court-yard (there were also indoor trophies, but you can only decide to earn them or not, not where to place them).
You can also customize your guards, and also place seasonal things (winter veil decorations etc).

And for the profession buildings you could also customize who of your followers works there.

I don't have a problem with what the garrisons were, but they weren't houses. There was zero personal, character-specific touch to them and that's what people want out of a player house.

That's because you didn't notice the personal character-specific touches.