Page 11 of 17 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
13
... LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    And right there, the Yellow Peril aspect of his posting becomes clear.

    You should just leave.

    No one wants you here.

  2. #202
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    33,441
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Then let's have clear, rational discussions on matters instead of thinly veiled Yellow Peril stuff. Seriously, the guy posting most of these just whipped out "are you ethnic Chinese" in a reply and anyone who has actually visited China and had different experiences is automatically dismissed out of hand -- page back and look how @De thuong
    gets blown off. It isn't about human rights, it is a stage for people to throw around stuff like "shithole" without getting infracted.


    In case we forget tank man was the guy who stopped the Chinese military from slaughtering students in Tienanmen Square.



    At one point tank man even climbed up on the tank to talk to the tank's crew.

    Why did the Chinese government execute tank man?
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    Ah, good! Then you're a citizen of China and qualified to comment on what China is or should be? No? Then I suppose that we'll be closing this and all future Hubcap on China threads because by that standard nobody here is qualified to talk about them.

    Using a more detached standard though, she has been to China and lived there for a bit. Those would seem to be first hand impressions. Most of the ZOMFG China is de Debbil posters here -- I can't think of any who currently fall outside of this group -- haven't lived in China for any sort of extended period. I can't recall any that have even done tourist trips.

    Notice the split. People who subscribe to China is de Debbil and anyone who disagrees has been brainwashed thus proving China is de Debbil tend to be people believing what they read on the Internet. People like @De thuong or @Deldavala who have been there disagree, probably to varying degrees according to background.

    I, of course, am actually Xi Jinping drunk posting, but for the sake of argument let's assume I am the persona I regularly claim on here. As an American, and thus by your criteria qualified to comment on matters American, I'm an academic similar in age to Ghostpanther. Personally, from the perspective of my age and looking from the outside which means I haven't gradually acclimated to post 9/11 America, we missed the individual rights bus not later than the War on Drugs. Tank Man gets hyped every year because he can be used for propaganda talking points such as Hubcap's threads, but nobody seems to remember Kent State and the shootings are handwaved away. I didn't elect Donald Trump to be my thin skinned, dictatorial leader who appears to have ambitions of establishing at least dynastic control over the country; he was "elected" despite the common vote (not particularly democratic) by a system that is vulnerable to manipulation and gerrymandering. I'm not a citizen of China, but I have lived here almost 20 years, and the other hundred people going through subway security during the morning crush hour are usually Chinese. They pass through metal detectors, they get wanded, their carried liquids are often analyzed -- all of the things I go through too -- and although caution about a subway attack similar to the sarin attack in Tokyo is one of the concerns, somehow we all do it without the subway security people kneading our genitals and our shoes stay on. Getting on an airplane in the US used to be like that, even though hijacking was a risk. Nope, not now. Having your genitals kneaded "for public safety" is blandly accepted. I read threads here on police shootings in the US and I frequently find them mind boggling because I've grown accustomed to an environment where police do not routinely carry firearms. And make no mistake if criminals want to have guns here they do, those range from garage guns to modern firearms.

    With all the talk about Tank Man though, let's remember another day in May. You guys did remember it, right?



    “This should remind us all once again that when dissent turns to violence, it invites tragedy.” Richard Nixon after Kent State shootings

    You can post picture like this and rest of the free world without fear of going to jail or worse....do the same sh¡t in China and you are fu[ked....but guys like you never see the light, like all those MF in my country defending the Venezuelan government and maduro....
    Quote Originally Posted by Beej View Post
    So having sex is immoral and shameful?
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Yes, and unsanitary as well. IF it wasnt it wouldnt be censored on TV and in movies (outside of porn)

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post

    I already gave a link disproving misconceptions on the program.
    The Twitter propaganda that talks about parts of the system?

    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    What should we call it then, Schroedinger's Directive? It is something that has been announced, it isn't really in effect although there are various experiments, and since it doesn't really exist it is as vague as similar attempts to address things like social media outside of China. I can't say I've heard of a single one where people think it is a great example of lawmaking.
    You can call it an awful idea. You can say it doesn't exist, but we're in a thread where a guy got arrested for posting something that could be seen as negative towards the government. It just doesn't have a number attached yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by True Anarch View Post
    Never claimed I was a genuis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furitrix View Post
    I don't give a fuck if cops act shitty towards people, never have.

  5. #205
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dongbei, PRC
    Posts
    4,695
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaexion Ramza Beoulve
    You should just leave.

    No one wants you here.
    Spoils the echo, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap
    Why did the Chinese government execute tank man?
    If they had, we would know.

    Speculation continues to circulate about Tank Man’s fate. Thousands of Chinese nationals were detained and imprisoned for their involvement in the protests, some of them kept in jail for almost their entire lives. Others were executed. No one has been able to determine whether Tank Man was among them.
    ...
    But it seems at least as plausible that the man disappeared back into his normal life. If he had left the country, he would have been free to speak out, according to Canadian journalist Jan Wang, who witnessed the confrontation. And if authorities had found him, they would have put him on public display, she told PBS. She believes there’s a good chance he’s alive and living quietly in China. The Information Centre for Human Rights and Democracy Movement in China said in 1998 that it had obtained official party documents that showed authorities had no idea what happened to him. In a 1990 interview with Barbara Walters, former Chinese leader Jiang Zemin said he couldn’t confirm (video) whether the man was arrested or not. He broke from speaking to Walters through an interpreter and said in English, “I think never, never killed.”
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/happe...195001207.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivapin8
    You can post picture like this and rest of the free world without fear of going to jail or worse....do the same sh¡t in China and you are fu[ked
    Which is probably less significant than you think. Different countries draw the line in different places and may have different hot buttons, but those lines do get drawn. For eighteen years the US had a ban on media coverage of returning war dead. Currently there are questions about US intentions to charge Assange. The bar is probably higher, but the Netherlands still have lese majesty laws. According to the idea of sovereignty, it is up to a country to make its own laws. The US, for example, often takes measures to see that internal policies aren't dictated by other nations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Post
    we're in a thread where a guy got arrested for posting something that could be seen as negative towards the government.
    Same as above really. The death penalty is generally viewed as something countries should have moved past, but the US and China both have it. The same idea that says each can have and enforce that penalty applies to this situation as well.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  6. #206
    The Undying freefolk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    33,441
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post

    If they had, we would know.


    Oh the Chinese government killed tank man, you know that. How many social credit points do you get for denying that?





    How come the Chinese government will arrest you for posting this on twitter?
    .

    "This will be a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival cannot be expected. We will do what damage we can."

    -- Capt. Copeland

  7. #207
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    27,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Post View Post
    The Twitter propaganda that talks about parts of the system?
    Did you even look at the sources, the documentation or anything?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by freefolk View Post
    Oh the Chinese government killed tank man, you know that. How many social credit points do you get for denying that?
    Got proof for that?

    https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cp...a30805a597.jpg

    How come the Chinese government will arrest you for posting this on twitter?
    They don't, so go ahead and try it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Or maybe it's due to China's consistent poor human rights record?

    We most likely don't talk about it often enough. The biggest country on Earth, an up and coming superpower, is a corrupt dystopia. That should be bigger news than whatever outrage is sweeping Twitter today.
    Wait so what country standard are we using that isn't a 'corrupt dystopia'?

    Every country has problems, that's why this isn't bigger news than whatever is sweeping Twitter today.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    It was communism in name only for long time anyway.

    Majority wanted to stay in union - and considering all wars and nationalistic flare-ups this breakout created, not to mention economic collapse from broken supply chains, they were right.

    It created millions of extra deaths. One of worst catastrophes of modern times.

    You know, Glasnost? Perestroyka? People were speaking up for long time already with no repercussions when breakdown happened.
    Majority of WHO? Russians in Russia proper? Because Baltics clearly did not. We clearly did not want that, as our votes showed (choose whichever language you want https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E...B2%D0%B8%D0%B8)
    Millions of extra deaths? Lolwhat? Are you confusing the Russian Civil war with the fall of USSR?

    Yes, they were, and they were still getting oppressed because of that. Oh yes, they were. Real actions and agitations started in 1989, very quickly, very fast until it exploded out of control (and fucks in Moscow sent tanks to drive over civilians and OMON to shoot up local police as a response. Thankfully, there were some officers with different ideas, like a certain general, who sent field kitchens instead. Ahh, the butthurt it still causes).
    Glasnost and perestroika were just words, without any salt. The last thing USSR ever "did".

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Majority of WHO? Russians in Russia proper? Because Baltics clearly did not. We clearly did not want that, as our votes showed (choose whichever language you want https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9E...B2%D0%B8%D0%B8)
    Baltics would get independence regardless of USSR referendum.

    Millions of extra deaths? Lolwhat? Are you confusing the Russian Civil war with the fall of USSR?
    Russian mortality trends for 1991-2001: analysis by cause and region

    Results: Mortality increased substantially after the economic crisis in 1998, with life expectancy falling to 58.9 years among men and 71.8 years among women by 2001. Most of these fluctuations were due to changes in mortality from vascular disease and violent deaths (mainly suicides, homicides, unintentional poisoning, and traffic incidents) among young and middle aged adults. Trends were similar in all parts of Russia. An extra 2.5-3 million Russian adults died in middle age in the period 1992-2001 than would have been expected based on 1991 mortality.

    Widely acknowledged fact. Sorry if you had no idea.

    And 1991 mortality was already higher then previous years too...

    Glasnost and perestroika were just words, without any salt. The last thing USSR ever "did".
    Given that Glasnost and Perestroyka led to USSR dissolution, those were pretty powerful words.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2019-05-28 at 07:43 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Baltics would get independence regardless of USSR referendum.


    Russian mortality trends for 1991-2001: analysis by cause and region

    Results: Mortality increased substantially after the economic crisis in 1998, with life expectancy falling to 58.9 years among men and 71.8 years among women by 2001. Most of these fluctuations were due to changes in mortality from vascular disease and violent deaths (mainly suicides, homicides, unintentional poisoning, and traffic incidents) among young and middle aged adults. Trends were similar in all parts of Russia. An extra 2.5-3 million Russian adults died in middle age in the period 1992-2001 than would have been expected based on 1991 mortality.

    Widely acknowledged fact. Sorry if you had no idea.

    And 1991 mortality was already higher then previous years too...

    Given that Glasnost and Perestroyka led to USSR dissolution, those were pretty powerful words.
    Oh we would? Suuuuure. Communists never have wanted anyone to leave or let them leave. Democratic communism sounds like an oxymoron. Sure, there were attempts at "communism with a human face", or "national communism", but those ended poorly when Moscow squashed them. I fail to see why the new magical fairy land democratic communism goverment would not attempt the same against disidents. Old farts in power would still be there, just in different suits.

    Well, Russia again as usual failed to manage absolutely everything. Guess what - 90ties were fun times in whole ex-USSR, not just in Russia. I know that. What did you think would have happened anyway? USSR was so totally rotten and backwards that when borders opened everything built (and I do not mean buildings...) just collapsed.

    Fair enough and good. Empire of evil fell, and I will stick by those words.

  12. #212
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    27,515
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Democratic communism sounds like an oxymoron.
    All communism is democratic, it's the only way the population can actually control the means of production.

    Well, Russia again as usual failed to manage absolutely everything. Guess what - 90ties were fun times in whole ex-USSR, not just in Russia.
    Yeah, asked the people who lived there, they loved it so much they started to riot everywhere.

    USSR was so totally rotten and backwards that when borders opened everything built (and I do not mean buildings...) just collapsed.
    Yes, it was so rotten and backwards that Yeltsin needed the US to meddle in their elections to prevent communism from returning.
    Empire of evil fell, and I will stick by those words.
    The empire of evil is still alive, it's the duty of every person on this world to make sure it ends.

  13. #213
    Scarab Lord bungeebungee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Dongbei, PRC
    Posts
    4,695
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap
    Oh the Chinese government killed tank man, you know that.
    There are people who "know" the US and/or Israel brought down the World Trade Center. However popular the idea is in some circles, it is a conspiracy theory. Unless you have proof beyond "you know" you're now into conspiracy theory territory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hubcap
    How many social credit points do you get for denying that?
    As you know from your failed social credit threads, the number is absolutely zero since 1) the system isn't in place and 2) I'm not Chinese.

    Do you actually have anything to say or are recycled memes the best you can come up with? Like I asked earlier, it is easy for you to be a keyboard hero spamming threads on the off topic forum of a gaming board, but what are you actually doing about it if it is so important to you? You are, by your own admission in other threads, a person with autism who has problems on other forums. I can see why.
    "No one -- however smart, however well-educated, however experienced -- is the suppository of all wisdom"

    Quote Originally Posted by Katie N
    Wtf? No weapons? xD What is this? Restricted training environment?
    Commenting on "anything goes" for martial arts and self defense

  14. #214
    Banned Kangodo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    27,515
    Quote Originally Posted by bungeebungee View Post
    There are people who "know" the US and/or Israel brought down the World Trade Center. However popular the idea is in some circles, it is a conspiracy theory. Unless you have proof beyond "you know" you're now into conspiracy theory territory.



    As you know from your failed social credit threads, the number is absolutely zero since 1) the system isn't in place and 2) I'm not Chinese.

    Do you actually have anything to say or are recycled memes the best you can come up with? Like I asked earlier, it is easy for you to be a keyboard hero spamming threads on the off topic forum of a gaming board, but what are you actually doing about it if it is so important to you? You are, by your own admission in other threads, a person with autism who has problems on other forums. I can see why.
    Just wait till he comes with the copy-paste that will get your internet blocked in China! /s

  15. #215
    Epic! Tabrotar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Where my books are
    Posts
    1,712
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    That's because we live in relatively new nations with only hundreds years of history rather than thousands, 1/4 the population, triple the economy and living in a nation built on the backs of slaves and stolen land. I mean we're well in recognition of this, so that's why we have the freedom to criticize our own governments and whatnot. That's why immigrant families come here, it's technically a better life. But at the same time we also face the unique (dare I say first-world) problems granted by all this freedom - freedom to spread misinformation, freedom to change the government around and tear down systems that were voted in just 4 years prior, freedom to go forwards while going backwards. There's no true suffering faced here, few of us living here have faced actual terrorism or actual war (at least in NA). Hell, an epidemic is one of our least concerns, all things considered.

    When we're talking about a country that has such a high population where people can freely move around within the nation, the fear of terrorism is substantial and true. With a history of being exploited by foreign powers and division of the country from internal politics and strife going back centuries, even millenia, it's no wonder that China has reinvented itself the way it has. I mean if you delve into Chinese history, it's been taken over by outside powers and inside powers hundreds of times over. The current government is probably the strongest ever seen in the history of their nation, but it becomes very fragile if left open to the same freedoms we have in the west. We bicker amongst ourselves by favouring left/right ideals and tear at the foundations of our own government every time there's a shift. That already happened in China and they saw the results of internal strife- it allowed the Japanese to invade China. They aren't going to make the same mistake again after the revolution, and it's why they're so zealous in stomping out any religious-based terrorism they deem a threat to their society, be it Falun Gong, Uyghur muslims or others. It's totalitarian and it's strict, and it works. We see this resocialization as a bad thing only, and it's a terrible thing, but in the context of the Chinese government it's working towards a unified country, not one separated by culture or creed and left with radical ideals that can tear away at the systems they've worked so hard to build.

    Their stance comes from a deep rooted history of internal conflict and having seen how internal politics lead to a complete fracture of their nation. What we observe here from the West is through tinted glasses - How can we judge a nation that is clearly tackling its own issues when we're unable to tackle our own? A handful of refugees enter the country and the government and society flips out. One terrorist event in the US turned the country around. Well, this is what China has been dealing with internally since... forever. It's a damn shame this is what is happening, but at the same time at least they're dealing with the terrorism problem rather than pretending upping security and diplomacy has lead to anything constructive. Unfortunately there is no sure-fire solution to religiously-fueled terrorism. That's the simple truth.

    Bad example incoming, but I feel like it's looking at a zombie apocalypse. We're all treating zombies like they're a threat we have to contain, while China is trying to stomp it out completely through extreme means and breaking whatever human rights to do it. We're judging them now for their methods, but who will win out in the long run? We don't know if we can cure the zombies, even if we try our best to do so. But there might never be a cure, so we might be the losers in the long run and it would be our hubris and foolishness that leads us to our demise. We're not even thankful that we are a nation far from conflict.
    TDLR: Oh don´t worry you just have to see it from their perspective, then it will all makes sence.

    Don´t try to see it from a educated perspective...

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    TDLR: Oh don´t worry you just have to see it from their perspective, then it will all makes sence.

    Don´t try to see it from a educated perspective...
    How does understanding the context make it any less of an educated perspective?

  17. #217
    Well it happens in Sweden too, EU cant pretend to be better then china anymore.

  18. #218
    Epic! Tabrotar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Where my books are
    Posts
    1,712
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    How does understanding the context make it any less of an educated perspective?
    Maybe and really just maybe bcs saying that it´s just so bcs they had problems/invasions/uprisings is fucking stupid?

    That´s the same as saying that it´s ok to kill/rape someone bcs you had it hard as a kid...

    There´re things which are bad no matter what (and we had several similar things in the past to see why they´re bad "hint" nazi/east germany/udssr") and they shouldn´t ever be excused, but what do i know, seems like china ha dit bad in the past so it´s ok fot them to do that...

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    Maybe and really just maybe bcs saying that it´s just so bcs they had problems/invasions/uprisings is fucking stupid?

    That´s the same as saying that it´s ok to kill/rape someone bcs you had it hard as a kid...

    There´re things which are bad no matter what (and we had several similar things in the past to see why they´re bad "hint" nazi/east germany/udssr") and they shouldn´t ever be excused, but what do i know, seems like china ha dit bad in the past so it´s ok fot them to do that...
    But I didn't say it was okay what they are doing. I said what is happening is simply a problem they are dealing with in their own way, and that there is no universal solution to dealing with something like religious fundamental terrorism coming from your own citizens (as opposed to a foreign threat).

    No country has successfully dealt with civil forms of fundamentalist/radical terrorism without imposing some harsh restrictions. The alternative has been ignoring the problems, such in the case of school shootings. Things are bad everywhere, but not equally and not with any solution that is easily applicable.

    Pragmatically speaking, the world is a big place and not everyone has the freedom to live openly transgender anywhere or have the same freedoms of religion and speech everywhere. We can't just criticize these places without context of why it is happening, because the usual critics are those who do not come from countries that face those same problems.

    This is a odd case in the world we live in because the historic solution to any sort of fundamentalism has been war or genocide. Its what has worked in the past, its what our world is based on with history of it in all cultures. And since human rights, we have been continually unable to resolve any terrorism conflict without bloodshed. Yet its easier to wage war with foreign entities than your own citizens, and that is pretty much what we are witnessing in China.

    A softer approach may very well exist, one that allows freedom of religion and harmonious living between radical cultures. We have that in Canada. But the problem is this is based on an honour system, as well as be a potential breeding ground for radical fundamentalism too, and potentially domestic terrorism. China doesn't want to deal with that risk, they have seen the worst of that in the past. They are all moving forward culturally under unification. So our solutions are inapplicable to them. This is not an excuse for human rights violations though, do not get me wrong. But in terms of protecting human rights, we open ourselves up to domestic terrorism if we do not do something about radical thinking and fundamentalism. And how is fundamentalism fought through peaceful means? It has never been successful.

    You talk about rape. Well is this rape? Thats not a very good metaphor at all considering this isn't about justifying rape.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2019-05-29 at 02:20 AM.

  20. #220
    "Hey China isn't so bad I live here"

    "Chinese don't value individual freedom, its normal here"

    A guy suddenly wants personal freedom in the corner over there

    "Just don't be that guy, he is in jail, but who cares, the important thing is I enjoy living here"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •