China arrests filmmaker Deng Chuanbin because of Tweet

[Domcho]

Or maybe instead of going all pilosophical and grandiose about this have you considered that Stalin & Co were simply people who were into this for power and riches and were paranoid about opponents, wherever they were real or imagined? What about that? There are enough people in history who believed in something but when in power ended up corrupt and the very definition of things they were against.
What even the point of your rambling is? That USSR became superpower from rags and that excuses all the mass murders? How much of that suffering was self inflicted?
Western approach was democracy, which even limited at that point was better for the average Joe. Less chance to be accused of something and shot by some troika.

So... you believe Stalin and the Soviet leadership were greedy for money and power. Why did they bother with the country's industrialization then? They could've kept the financial resources for themselves. Why did they improve education and increase the Soviet people's literacy? It would be a lot easier to manipulate and brainwash a herd of uneducated peasants, don't you think?

USSR becoming a superpower does not excuse the mass murders that happened, it explains why they happened. I would like to remind you the "democratic and peaceful leader of the world", whose values you defend, The United States of America were found on the basis of the genocide of indigenous people. A fact that is rarely discussed and a lot of people seem to be forgetting.

The point of my rambling is - you tried to defend your Western political beliefs and prove communism is bad and ineffective by giving Stalin and the USSR as a historic example, but you have yet to explain why your example is valid. If you believe the USSR could have recovered from the Great War, the civil war and then endure World War 2 successfully, through Western political and economical approach without the inhumane acts you mentioned, prove it.

[Easo]

So... you believe Stalin and the Soviet leadership were greedy for money and power. Why did they bother with the country's industrialization then? They could've kept the financial resources for themselves. Why did they improve education and increase the Soviet people's literacy? It would be a lot easier to manipulate and brainwash a herd of uneducated peasants, don't you think?

USSR becoming a superpower does not excuse the mass murders that happened, it explains why they happened. I would like to remind you the "democratic and peaceful leader of the world", whose values you defend, The United States of America were found on the basis of the genocide of indigenous people. A fact that is rarely discussed and a lot of people seem to be forgetting.

The point of my rambling is - you tried to defend your Western political beliefs and prove communism is bad and ineffective by giving Stalin and the USSR as a historic example, but you have yet to explain why your example is valid. If you believe the USSR could have recovered from the Great War, the civil war and then endure World War 2 successfully, through Western political and economical approach without the inhumane acts you mentioned, prove it.

You mean attempting to secure their domain?
And what you are doing is attempting to excuse USSR for what they did or their failures in doing so. Yes, communism is bad. Every single place which attempted to implement it ended up with autocrats and mass murders, which gives the logical conlusion it cannot work and therefore, in practical terms (not in theory) is bad. Is the pattern that hard to see?
Do not forget - part of reason WW2 even happened in the first place IS the cooperation between Soviets and Germany.
P.S.
Truly makes me wonder, is the good life makes peoples life so boring that they need to invent up shit cause "they know better" that the supposed "system"?

[Shalcker]

Do not forget - part of reason WW2 even happened in the first place IS the cooperation between Soviets and Germany.

No, primary reason was Munich agreement with Britain and France when they allowed Hitler to take and keep Czechoslovakia, with Poland preventing USSR from coming to their aid.

Primary reason Molotov-Ribentropp happened was that UK was clearly not interested in entering into anti-Hitler alliance with USSR - they just wanted to drag talks indefinitely and stall (French were more interested but they couldn't do it alone).

[Independent voter]

Top secret documents embassies sent back home after the massacre.

“ 27 ARMY ORDERED TO SPARE NOONE AND SHOT WOUNDED SMR SOLDIERS. 4 WOUNDED GIRL STUDENTS BEGGED FOR THEIR LIVES BUT WERE BAYONETED. A 3 YEAR OLD GIRL WAS INJURED BUT HER MOTHER WAS SHOT AS SHE WENT TO HER AID AS WERE SIX OTHERS WHO TRIED. 1000 SURVIVORS WERE TOLD THEY COULD ESCAPE VIA ZHENGYI LU BUT WERE THEN MOWN DOWN BY SPECIALLY PREPARED M/G POSITIONS. ARMY AMBULANCES WHO ATTEMPTED TO GIVE AID WERE SHOT UP AS WAS A SINO-JAPANESE HOSPITAL AMBULANCE. WITH MEDICAL CREW DEAD WOUNDED DRIVER ATTEMPTED TO RAM ATTACKERS BUT WAS BLOWN TO PIECES BY ANTI TANK WEAPON. IN FURTHER ATTACK APCS CAUGHT UP WITH SMR STRAGGLER TRUCKS, RAMMED AND OVERTURNED THEM AND RAN OVER TROOPS. DURING ATTACK 27 ARMY OFFICER SHOT DEAD BY OWN TROOPS APPARENTLY BECAUSE HE FALTERED. TROOPS EXPLAINED THEY WOULD BE SHOT IF THEY HADN'T SHOT OFFICER”

https://en.m.wikisource.org/wiki/UK_...quare_Massacre


https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc12.pdf

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc13.pdf

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc14.pdf

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc16.pdf

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc17.pdf

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NS...docs/doc18.pdf

All from here

https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB16/






Looks like the protestors weren't the people "The People's Army" belonged to.

How did the Chinese Communist Party manage to get the Japanese Imperial Army to get rid of the protesters at Tienanmen Square?

[NED funded]

@freefolk

If you are interested I deffo recommend this docu series.

[Easo]

So China has done something unusal this year and is now attempting to justify what happened:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-48489002

China has defended the crackdown on the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests in a rare public acknowledgement of events.

Defence Minister Wei Fenghe told a regional forum that stopping the "turbulence" was the "correct" policy.

I guess they forgot to add the usual pseudospiritual bullshit about maintaining the "harmony" and what not.

No, primary reason was Munich agreement with Britain and France when they allowed Hitler to take and keep Czechoslovakia, with Poland preventing USSR from coming to their aid.

Primary reason Molotov-Ribentropp happened was that UK was clearly not interested in entering into anti-Hitler alliance with USSR - they just wanted to drag talks indefinitely and stall (French were more interested but they couldn't do it alone).

Soviets trained German officers in secret waaay before that, but it really does take the cake for you to suggest and spin it that it is again somehow Allies fault. Poland, Baltics, Finland and Romania were not split because of Allies, but because Germany and USSR split them. They actually signed the document and their troops actually invaded.
Let me guess, next you are going to say that USSR attack on Poland was justified, that they went in to "protect Belorussians" or something like that?

Oh no, Allies did not want to be together with commies, what a bunch of meanies, better start sucking up to Nazy Germany! Please...

[Shalcker]

Soviets trained German officers in secret waaay before that,

Oh? Where did you see that? Trained in what exactly?

but it really does take the cake for you to suggest and spin it that it is again somehow Allies fault. Poland, Baltics, Finland and Romania were not split because of Allies, but because Germany and USSR split them. They actually signed the document and their troops actually invaded.

WW2 is most definitely Allies fault. Because Allies were the ones who put such onerous reparation terms on Germany and led to rise of far-right as result.

And then they legalized Hitler's aggression against Czechoslovakia (and Poles made their cut there too, using German actions for their own land grab).

Let me guess, next you are going to say that USSR attack on Poland was justified, that they went in to "protect Belorussians" or something like that?

USSR forces entering Poland happened because UK and France clearly were dragging their feet again and were not coming to help Poles - and as such their fate was already sealed.

It happened two weeks after German invasion with USSR diplomats asking "Well, you declared war, when are you going to attack?" ...and seeing no response and no war preparations.

Oh no, Allies did not want to be together with commies, what a bunch of meanies, better start sucking up to Nazy Germany! Please...

If you don't want alliance, then why complain that non-aggression allowed Hitler to attack France and then Britain?

USSR needed that time to build up; and both France and Britain were clearly wasting it and not preparing for real war.

[Thirza]

Revising history is so much harder VS modern memory preservation methods.

It amuses me that they thought they could cover up the murder of all those people.

[Domcho]

You mean attempting to secure their domain?

I mean successfully building, developing and eventually retaining the country's existence on this world. Preventing extinction when history put the nation to the test.

And what you are doing is attempting to excuse USSR for what they did or their failures in doing so.

Can you read properly?

USSR becoming a superpower does not excuse the mass murders that happened, it explains why they happened.

Yes, communism is bad. Every single place which attempted to implement it ended up with autocrats and mass murders, which gives the logical conlusion it cannot work and therefore, in practical terms (not in theory) is bad. Is the pattern that hard to see?

Communist countries of the Eastern Bloc, above all else, had good educational system, high literacy, heavy industry and good healthcare. Crime, starvation, homelessness and unemployment were next to non-existent. Mass starvation like the Hologomor, was a problem born by the consequence of previous factors. When there are no wars and no devastated territory, starvation is not a thing. Contrary to what we see now - there are homeless, sick and starving people. If you think communism is responsible for mass deaths, I advise you to make a thorough research on the healthcare system of Eastern bloc nations. Let me remind you the healthcare system of a country, running on capitalism, is considered to be a product and business. Simply put: a few people and companies making profit from other people's health problems. Can't afford your medication? You suffer... and eventually die. Which system is more humane now?

Need I also remind you of the high technological and scientific level achieved during communism? Under what political regime was the country that sent the first satellite, first animal, first man and first woman into space? Have you heard of Interkosmos? Where are the non-Russian ex-Soviet, Polish, Hungarian, Czech, Slovak, Romanian and Bulgarian cosmonauts today? Did you know a small country like communist Bulgaria was one of the three countries in the world (after USA and USSR) that produced space food? It was also one of the two countries on the planet, back then (the other being USA), that produced memory storage devices. Bulgaria also produced it's own computers. Let me tell you something else: it doesn't anymore, now that it's free of evil communism. Bulgaria's population increased approximately by 2 - 2.5 million people from 1945 to 1990, and dropped by 3 - 3.5 million for the past 30 years. The "mass murders of communism", that you so faithfully speak of, increased Bulgaria's population to almost 9 million, while the democratic, capitalist system, you're claiming is better, brought it down below 7 million, without the help of any wars, armed conflicts, global catastrophes or cataclysms. I am not even going to ask you to explain why, I already know you have no clue.

Do not forget - part of reason WW2 even happened in the first place IS the cooperation between Soviets and Germany.

Are you claiming the Soviet Union is responsible for:

• The remilitarization of the Rhineland
• The annexation of Austria
• The annexation of Czechia
• The annexation of Memel

Do you even have a basic clue of what military equipment the German army possessed before and after Czechia was annexed?