Mythic+ is terrible for the game

[Disegame]

As many has stated, M+ is what keeps them around. You might be able to argue the lvl or reward but its existence is important to a huge player base. WoW has always pretty much had some alternative ways of gearing besides raids. Its started with vanilla with pvp gear vendors which evolved to regular gear vendors and currency systems to obtain loot. M+ just removes the vendors and add rng to the equation. The ability to endlessly repeat them unlike the currency systems which had weekly caps might be some what of an issue but the content itself is not.

[Frolk]

Any bets to if the OP is mad his RIO score is too low to be invited to 10s or higher and then complains whole system is bad.

[SirBeef]

The glorified Diablo 3 greater rift system, now renamed to "Mythic+", is an un-MMO like feature that completely ruined ANY other way of gearing. It's literally a system taken from a non-MMORPG. It does not belong here.

The fact that you get the same ilvl from M+ as raiding is just awful. Why would anyone raid? Even Method has only defeated Jaina 2 times. Why farm her more? They get better gear from M+.

I was serious about raiding during this expansion for the first time since MoP. I was farming the heroics and then we started raiding as a Heroic raiding guild. It was fun. Then M+ unlocked. Guild leaders going "We expect you to farm M+ for gear and get +x ilvl by next raid"... I hate doing the same dungeons over and over again with scaled hp and dmg. Also raiding don't even give a single Tier set that looks cool... I quit raiding 3 weeks after M+ unlocked.

Raiding gear can't compete with M+. PvP gear can't compete with M+. Nothing can comete with M+.

I tried to cap on Conquest points each week to get that kind of gear but it's still miles worse than what M+10 gives.

How about making a dungeon system that can feel rewarding all expansion long without any scaling, while still giving incentive to raid? PS: Vanilla managed to do it, see dungeons set 1 and 2.

The game has gone from "raid or die" to "m+ or die", and I for one, rather die then.

In a guild that runs Mythic raid content and no one is required to run let alone, farm M+ for gear or to hit a certain ilvl. Sounds like you beef is with your guuild leadership.

[Voidwielder]

Nope. It's because holy sucks compared to the other healers, especially compared to resto druids.

Yeah, if you are aiming at everything above, let's say, 17. A guy who mains Shadow in my guilds heals +17 as Holy. I see him do it all the time.
Past that point you are already in the Big Boy league. You have no business playing a suboptimal spec, just as you would not be allowed, unless you are privileged in the guild, to bring a suboptimal spec to a Mythic fight that hasn't been outgeared and nerfed in to the Twiting Nether.

Class and spec metas have always been a thing. M+ did not cause it. Rage at Blizzard class designers.

Complaints about elitism usually come from people with a strong sense of entitlement. And subpar skill, regardless of their in game preferences.
I see through you.

[Elias01]

Same. I did raid Mythic in Nighthold but Argus is what killed it for me. I have no patience or time to wipe for an hour or more because some idiot could not dodge Kin beams. For M+ I pick 4 people based on score and feeling and usually it's done in 45 minutes, travel time and R checks counted in.
Neat and efficient.

So quit raiding becousr mythic+ is path of least resistance. This have nothing to do with mythic+ being more fun. It is just more efficient. Blizz can also just stop creating raids at this point. Thanks god for classic.

[uder34a]

As many has stated, M+ is what keeps them around.

[Voidwielder]

So quit raiding becousr mythic+ is path of least resistance. This have nothing to do with mythic+ being more fun. It is just more efficient. Blizz can also just stop creating raids at this point. Thanks god for classic.

No, it's not a path of least resistance. It's an alternative for players who have awkward schedules or who prefer smaller group based content. I am one of those. I also like the increased amount of responsibility it puts on me - there's no hiding my mistakes. Or good plays.

[ceall]

Mythic+ is not the problem. Raider.io is.

[Forogil]

As many has stated, M+ is what keeps them around.

I agree it's seems OP made a mistake in naming the thread it should be: "Mythic+ is terribly good for the game".

[Thelin]

The glorified Diablo 3 greater rift system, now renamed to "Mythic+", is an un-MMO like feature that completely ruined ANY other way of gearing. It's literally a system taken from a non-MMORPG. It does not belong here.

The fact that you get the same ilvl from M+ as raiding is just awful. Why would anyone raid? Even Method has only defeated Jaina 2 times. Why farm her more? They get better gear from M+.

I was serious about raiding during this expansion for the first time since MoP. I was farming the heroics and then we started raiding as a Heroic raiding guild. It was fun. Then M+ unlocked. Guild leaders going "We expect you to farm M+ for gear and get +x ilvl by next raid"... I hate doing the same dungeons over and over again with scaled hp and dmg. Also raiding don't even give a single Tier set that looks cool... I quit raiding 3 weeks after M+ unlocked.

Raiding gear can't compete with M+. PvP gear can't compete with M+. Nothing can comete with M+.

I tried to cap on Conquest points each week to get that kind of gear but it's still miles worse than what M+10 gives.

How about making a dungeon system that can feel rewarding all expansion long without any scaling, while still giving incentive to raid? PS: Vanilla managed to do it, see dungeons set 1 and 2.

The game has gone from "raid or die" to "m+ or die", and I for one, rather die then.

Ah the old I'm bad at the game so I'll cry about a system that I can't excel in while others do. The azerite gear from raids has better affixes, the trinkets are better in raids, and a few other incentives to do so. Mythic + can also not give out the same ilvl as mythic its capped at 400 to be aligned with with the chance at higher gear only once a week..and it can't drop azerite outside of the weekly chest.

M+ is a great addition to the game because you can run it as much or as little as you want, why do you care what other gear people have or how often they run, it doesn't impact YOUR gameplay what-so-ever.

Imagine if M+ had been around in WoD that game would have been vastly different because the dungeons were great.

[Ferozan]

M+ is not fun, if they could iterate more on challenge mode instead of infinite scaling dungeons, it would be a lot more fun.

Since the mobs scale so hard with higher keys, they can't be creative with affixes and they become stale after a while.

Also talking about M+ and the loot meta, separating M+ loot and raid loot would be a cool idea to try, like the old pvp scaling gear from wod worked, but better since it is not pvp. M+ gear would be full ilvl on m+, raid would be full ilvl on raid, both would be scaled down to the other minimum whenever you do the content that it doesn't originate from.

[Voidwielder]

Imagine if M+ had been around in WoD that game would have been vastly different because the dungeons were great.

Oh yes, I would love to see that Shadowmoon dungeon done as M+.

[Spike`]

With mythic plus, I won't play BFA nor will my friends. It's a horrible system, you can't play or bring whatever class you want to. My friend played a guardian druid but he stopped playing because they're so shit to tank with, healing a brewmaster monk is like 10 times easier than healing a guardian druid. The guardian druid takes insane amounts of damage compared to a monk and has more trouble with threat than the brewmaster even at same skill level. Playing holy priest, people don't invite me to any higher keys because they want a resto druid. If I play dps, I don't get any invites either because they don't want a shadow priest.
l.

i played Disc Priest until Zandalari Trolls were released and i'm playing monk now
my friend played Guardian Druid, now Prot pala

so yes i know your pain and its alot more easier now with mistweaver/pala

so ya i know exactly what you are talking about, Disc wouldn't even be invited for a key with grievious on it and some others affixes but Holy is totally doable because i played both specs

your problem with holy priest in higher keys is not the spec, its the mentality of the people wanting only the best healer that brings good heal+utility and in this case nothing beats Resto Druid because of combat ress

if the other healers had combat ress we would see alot more variety on the healer boards but Blizzard can't see this simple thing

[SirBeef]

Mythic+ is not the problem. People are.

Fixed that for you.

[Phantombeard]

Legion M+ was awesome, loved everyone I did. BFA M+ is pure shit. The biggest reason for it? Our classes are shit compared to the Legion version of same class. Secondly and tbh way too many things to mention, there are a lot of small changes that add up to M+ in bfa being shit. Really though IMO class design destroyed all of BFA.

[hulkgor]

Only a handful of my 9/9M (pre-nerf) guildies even run Mythic+ besides the weekly 10.

You really DO NOT have to run M+s to be able to raid at a high level, stop repeating that nonsense, please.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion M+ was awesome, loved everyone I did. BFA M+ is pure shit. The biggest reason for it? Our classes are shit compared to the Legion version of same class. Secondly and tbh way too many things to mention, there are a lot of small changes that add up to M+ in bfa being shit. Really though IMO class design destroyed all of BFA.

Yea, all those 'reasons' make a lot of sense, thanks for the input, i guess?

[Luxeley]

In case you hadn't noticed MMOs are dying and WOW isn't. That's largely due to WOW's mix and balance mechanisms. Granted Blizz doesn't always get things right, but sometimes they do and I disagree. I do believe M-plus is a great addition to the game. On a personal level I don't like M-plus because the mere presence of it forces players to do M-plus to competitive in pvp and even raiding. I don't know what the answer is here because some changes do need to be made, but M-plus is a great part of the solution more than it is the problem even though I am NOT a fan of M-plus.

[pacotaco]

M+ actively works against the formation of a social community.

How so? How it's different from raids or nonm+ dungeons?

If M+ was such a great feature, subs would at least be increasing since its implementation. They aren't. Set aside your biases, it sucks. People don't want it. They continue to leave the game instead. It doesn't hook them.

Correlation does not imply causation. You need to justify it. Otherwise I could also say adding mounts/pets/gear needs to go, because subs drop the more they put them in the game.

[Forogil]

Correlation does not imply causation. You need to justify it. Otherwise I could also say adding mounts/pets/gear needs to go, because subs drop the more they put them in the game.

I claim that character levels above 80 are the cause of the problems.

We need a character level reset.

/s

[Jester Joe]

With mythic plus, I won't play BFA nor will my friends. It's a horrible system, you can't play or bring whatever class you want to. My friend played a guardian druid but he stopped playing because they're so shit to tank with, healing a brewmaster monk is like 10 times easier than healing a guardian druid. The guardian druid takes insane amounts of damage compared to a monk and has more trouble with threat than the brewmaster even at same skill level. Playing holy priest, people don't invite me to any higher keys because they want a resto druid. If I play dps, I don't get any invites either because they don't want a shadow priest.

While you're not wrong technically about certain classes being better, that's the mentality of the groups you're finding is the issue not that it's not doable.

It's not like brewmasters are high in demand right now so I'm a bit confused on that comparison, but I've healed guardian druids before and I've never seen them as taking insane amounts of damage unless they overpull or aren't using their AM properly.

P.S. If you are not invited in to high M+ keys, it's because you suck at Holy, not because the spec sucks. If you want to be in the Top 100 bracket, adapt to meta. It has always been that way.

How are you implying that a group would know their skill level before entering?

Even if you claim by raider.io, that's hardly a good measure either of skill, it just shows whether or not you've done it before.