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  1. #81
    just put in sargeras and call it a day
    hit & run posting lol

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Not sure I would sign your number though, beyond the 3.4 (?) million that they told us on day 1 (and even there people go "Oh, it is not day 1...it is all pre-orders), anything beyond that I think is speculation? Or did they release sale figures afterwards?

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...on-pack-sales/ I can only find this, which includes an interesting line "Additionally, the release of the Warlords of Draenor expansion pack in the 4th quarter of 2014 brought a substantial spike in the subscriber numbers reaching over ten million in that period"

    One could take that as an indicator, that indeed after 3 million sold on day one, 6-7 million are sold in the days after, but only WotLK had the staying power to sustain 10+ million subs.

    Probably the best Blizzard could do is NOT tell us sub-numbers, so people will keep talking over WoW and arguing. Proof? : https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-numbers/page7

    Locked with the reason: "the thread now is mostly pointless argument about subscriptions which no one knows anything about or that WoW is dying."

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    I don't see any plan in your post, just wishful thinking.

    People keep critizising WoW and the dev team with every x-pac more viciously. The apparently best devs they ever had fucked up "Project Titan". No other developer who either tried to copy WoW or tried "a fresh start, new gameplay, new story to tell, and new goals ingame" did not surpass WoW (we can argue about FF 14 for all I care)

    What makes you think there is ANYTHING or ANYBODY within Blizzard who can pull off a WoW 2 and why would they want to, when there is all this praising the re-release of a FIFTEEN year old game version as the second coming of Christ. People here (in parts) seem more interested in re-living what they once did, hate the new stuff /(retail) but you think you can seel a vague idea of having " a fresh start".

    I think that is called: Try a different MMO franchise....
    I think its very hard to pull a wow 2 yes. Espepcially with blizzard being part of activision and a corp itself. Its very hard to say ok lets make something new, rather than just slightly update our current product every other year. Pretty much what mobile phone companies are doing etc.

    That said I can't ignore the fact that it needs to be done, or at least to be heard. Every-time there is a post about new expansions or bringing back classic(its happening)/tbc etc. I don't hear the fact that wow needs number 2 instead of a new expansion. It doesn't really have to be a completely different game. Just make sure you reset the current content. So much bloat at the current wow.

  3. #83
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    I think its very hard to pull a wow 2 yes. Espepcially with blizzard being part of activision and a corp itself. Its very hard to say ok lets make something new, rather than just slightly update our current product every other year. Pretty much what mobile phone companies are doing etc.

    That said I can't ignore the fact that it needs to be done, or at least to be heard. Every-time there is a post about new expansions or bringing back classic(its happening)/tbc etc. I don't hear the fact that wow needs number 2 instead of a new expansion. It doesn't really have to be a completely different game. Just make sure you reset the current content. So much bloat at the current wow.
    I get the part, where you now have the responsibility for several thousand employees and your families...and play it safe, rather than when you are a rogue company with few ppl and take risks....

    ...what I don't get is how it is " fact that it needs to be done".

    Since you said in your OP that "Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1." - They didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart...they had a plan, the story was told...and they hope to keep making money.

    Which is at the end of the day what drives Blizzard's decisions. And you need to be more convincing that a WoW 2 will make them more money than WoW now will.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    The game has outlived any expectations.

    My personal feeling is that the game as we know it - world of warcraft - should be coming to its end and have a final expansion where they wrap up the story.

    Tbh the storytelling hasn't been good since the whole thing with timetravel started and since they were left out of ideas, it feels like its dragging for no particular reason.

    That and the fact that we get an expansion every 2 years, which apparently has a new story to tell, has the gameplay for each class massively changed and it adds features e.g warfronts, m+ etc, that feel like blizzard is just throwing eggs on a wall to see which one sticks.

    I feel its time for wow to end as we know it and have 1 final good expansion.

    Then it would be awesome for blizzard to continued doing the legacy realm stuff e.g tbc, wotlk and while supporting itself on past content take a few years to bring world of warcraft 2 on the table.

    Wow needs a wow 2, it needs a fresh start, new gameplay, new story to tell, and new goals ingame.

    Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1.

    I am sick and tired of expansion after expansion just for the cashgrab. Each expansion after mop pretty much felt just like it could have been a new patch and not a whole expansion.
    Yea, they absolutely should wrap-up one of their most profitable games, and their flagship title.

    Makes perfect sense, really.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    I get the part, where you now have the responsibility for several thousand employees and your families...and play it safe, rather than when you are a rogue company with few ppl and take risks....

    ...what I don't get is how it is " fact that it needs to be done".

    Since you said in your OP that "Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1." - They didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart...they had a plan, the story was told...and they hope to keep making money.

    Which is at the end of the day what drives Blizzard's decisions. And you need to be more convincing that a WoW 2 will make them more money than WoW now will.
    I don't think they give a damn about their employees or their families. Its just money for them. Don't forget how many people they letgo even though they had a record sales year.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    People forget they built a new engine for Titan/Overwatch. If I were a reasonably smart CEO and my folks were building a brand new engine for an MMO, I'd tell them to leave some hooks in the code so I could eventually think about converting my stuff on the old obsolete engine to the new one.

    If I were a reasonably smart CEO...

    I very much doubt if they will ever do anything at all like this but it is worth remembering that they built a brand new engine for their cancelled MMO. But in the very unlikely event that they decide to do a separate WoW2 instead of continuing to iterate over multiple expansions it would very likely be designed by most of the same people that are there now. So it's a complete mystery to me why anyone thinks a fresh start would change much of anything.
    That's a good point. I'd forgotten they did that for Overwatch. Didn't they also make a new engine for HotS? Or is that just the SC2 engine?

    Either way, I agree that a clean slate wouldn't happen. One of the main reasons WoW is even still going as strong as it is is due to heavily entrenched player investment. Take that out of the equation and any kind of "WoW2" would have to be so incredibly, unbelievably good to make up for it.

    Although I'm curious to see how that concept contrasts with Classic, which IS a clean start.
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  7. #87
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldgeezer View Post
    What would 'WoW2' be anyway? Or, more specifically, what would it be that the next expansion couldn't bring?
    100+ years in the future, perhaps. Gives time for current powers to fall and new ones to establish themselves.


    Alternatively, I think we should have lost Legion. Azeroth is destroyed. Those who can, flee through the red dark portal to Draenor (had we not destroyed it) and struggle to carve out a new home for themselves, dreading the day when the Legion turns around and heads towards us once more. Draenor is predominately undiscovered, you could take the story where ever you want from there!

    I get that not everyone wants to let go of Azeroth, though. But really, what is left for Azeroth to give us other than a memory to fight for?

  8. #88
    I think the game is fine now, but I do also like the idea of them wrapping it up. Open things up to a new Blizzard MMO (non-Warcraft related) and take the Warcraft franchise into a new non-MMO game type (not necessarily RTS, but I wouldn't mind that either).

    Ending current WoW to make a new Warcraft MMO sounds utterly stupid, though.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post

    Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1.
    marvel decided to wrap up "The Infinity Saga" which is like one wow expansion, where phases are simmilar to patches, with thanos being the lich king

  10. #90
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    I don't think they give a damn about their employees or their families. Its just money for them. Don't forget how many people they letgo even though they had a record sales year.
    Whatever, man....guess we gotta give it to you...WoW needs a restart as WoW2...your arguments are flawless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post

    Either way, I agree that a clean slate wouldn't happen. One of the main reasons WoW is even still going as strong as it is is due to heavily entrenched player investment. Take that out of the equation and any kind of "WoW2" would have to be so incredibly, unbelievably good to make up for it.

    Although I'm curious to see how that concept contrasts with Classic, which IS a clean start.
    Yeah, I am one of the heavily entrenched players. I would not play a WoW 2, I would use it to sever my bond to Blizzard games.

    And I don't see Classic as a clean start. It is going back to something old with a finite lifespan either way. As in: Either be stuck with something old that has a closed patch cycle and play there forever or get the opportunity to progress potentially to TBC legacy servers. Yeah..and the tiny chance of Classic content update...entirely different from what we ever had in Classic. Like..a patch 1.13 and beyond.

    Neither of which interests me....but good luck to all who go for it. And if this system actually does overtake retail (as some ppl here claim), it is a win / win for me....as I am also gonna be out of WoW

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    The game has outlived any expectations.

    My personal feeling is that the game as we know it - world of warcraft - should be coming to its end and have a final expansion where they wrap up the story.

    Tbh the storytelling hasn't been good since the whole thing with timetravel started and since they were left out of ideas, it feels like its dragging for no particular reason.

    That and the fact that we get an expansion every 2 years, which apparently has a new story to tell, has the gameplay for each class massively changed and it adds features e.g warfronts, m+ etc, that feel like blizzard is just throwing eggs on a wall to see which one sticks.

    I feel its time for wow to end as we know it and have 1 final good expansion.

    Then it would be awesome for blizzard to continued doing the legacy realm stuff e.g tbc, wotlk and while supporting itself on past content take a few years to bring world of warcraft 2 on the table.

    Wow needs a wow 2, it needs a fresh start, new gameplay, new story to tell, and new goals ingame.

    Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1.

    I am sick and tired of expansion after expansion just for the cashgrab. Each expansion after mop pretty much felt just like it could have been a new patch and not a whole expansion.
    If / when its wrapped up, that will be it like every mmo there won't keep legacy stuff alive if there's no avenue to milk the mau's. It will be lights off for the lot to use the server space for more profitable ip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    That's a good point. I'd forgotten they did that for Overwatch. Didn't they also make a new engine for HotS? Or is that just the SC2 engine?

    Either way, I agree that a clean slate wouldn't happen. One of the main reasons WoW is even still going as strong as it is is due to heavily entrenched player investment. Take that out of the equation and any kind of "WoW2" would have to be so incredibly, unbelievably good to make up for it.

    Although I'm curious to see how that concept contrasts with Classic, which IS a clean start.
    Classic isn't a clean start, it's a dusty old relic with no future, what ever you think of it that model has no future in the 2019 games industry classics life is entirly tied to being a sub add on to retail, no retail = no classic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahlah View Post
    There's a reason most developers use macs which has to do with coding value and not just some oversimplified argument regarding price tag and because of this I have a mac laptop for my work in the tech industry
    honestly pissed my self laughing, macs for software dev...yea right.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Pronto787 View Post
    If they wrap up wow they should just make a new MMO instead of "WoW 2". It always makes me laugh when people think a second wow would save the day. If blizzard is struggling to write a good story now then why would they be able to with a second version of WoW?
    it's not that blizzard is struggling to write a story. the story telling is almost as good as it ever has. There's been a million threads written about what's wrong with wow and i'll go over a few that I feel most strongly about.

    1. the world doesn't feel dangerous.
    2. the world doesn't feel lived in.
    3. there's no reason to group outside dungeons
    4. flying and portals makes the world feel even smaller than it is. I've always particularly hated the portals for cata in stormwind/orgrimmar.
    4.1 the game gives you no reason to hang out in any capital city other than stormwind/orgrimmar. all the portals, ships, etc are there and nowhere else.
    4.2 all the expansions have made the game a patchwork of disconnected zones. I'd love to just walk from the eastern plaguelands into the ghostlands without zoning.
    5. easy access to dungeons, welfare epics, cross realm gameplay. doing/organizing dungeons should be a bit of work for the rewards you will potentially get.
    6. expansion villains: factions, demons, old gods, zombie adpocalypse. I'm almost certain if you worked everything back to it's source it's just the old gods manipulating everything.


    all of these except for #6 kill community. without a strong community where players need each other and build actual relationships to progress you are left with a game that might as well be single player.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    And I don't see Classic as a clean start. It is going back to something old with a finite lifespan either way. As in: Either be stuck with something old that has a closed patch cycle and play there forever or get the opportunity to progress potentially to TBC legacy servers. Yeah..and the tiny chance of Classic content update...entirely different from what we ever had in Classic. Like..a patch 1.13 and beyond.
    I think that's an important point you just brought up: The viewing of Classic as not actually being a clean start. There's a lot of emotional investment, and nostlagia, that wouldn't be present in a completely new product like WoW2. So it won't matter as much that people won't have gold, or mounts, or progress to bank on, but they WILL have all those golden-years to use as their investment.

    Hmm....
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  14. #94
    For you maybe it is time to wrap up playing WoW. But for me and countless millions of other players, we are content and happy enough to continue playing.

    As long as there are subscribers, WoW will always continue banging out expansions. And I personally believe it has a very long life ahead.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Classic isn't a clean start, it's a dusty old relic with no future, what ever you think of it that model has no future in the 2019 games industry classics life is entirly tied to being a sub add on to retail, no retail = no classic.
    That's hard to say. There are several examples of older games that are still going strong. Runescape is the biggest one that I know of.

    But you're correct in that the current video-games industry is super harsh. The amount of profit that's generally required for a game to be considered successful is ridiculously high. However, I think you should consider the angle that Blizzard may be moving more towards a subscription/service model similar to what other AAA publishers are doing: Offering a monthly subscription that provides access to multiple titles. EA-access, for example. If Activision/Blizzard adds more games to their subscription, like Diablo 4, Classic WoW, Call of Duty, Warcraft RTS remaster, etc, each individual game wouldn't have to be successful on its own.

    I don't know if that's actually what they're aiming at. I'm just saying it could be something they could do to justify things like Classic even if it doesn't overtake Modern wow.
    Happiness is peace in motion.

  16. #96
    Stood in the Fire Tincjin's Avatar
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    Whenever people make threads with title 'Is it time...' the answer is automatically 'no'.

    You don't decide when is it time for something regarding the game just because you don't enjoy it

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by tratra View Post
    The game has outlived any expectations.

    My personal feeling is that the game as we know it - world of warcraft - should be coming to its end and have a final expansion where they wrap up the story.

    Tbh the storytelling hasn't been good since the whole thing with timetravel started and since they were left out of ideas, it feels like its dragging for no particular reason.

    That and the fact that we get an expansion every 2 years, which apparently has a new story to tell, has the gameplay for each class massively changed and it adds features e.g warfronts, m+ etc, that feel like blizzard is just throwing eggs on a wall to see which one sticks.

    I feel its time for wow to end as we know it and have 1 final good expansion.

    Then it would be awesome for blizzard to continued doing the legacy realm stuff e.g tbc, wotlk and while supporting itself on past content take a few years to bring world of warcraft 2 on the table.

    Wow needs a wow 2, it needs a fresh start, new gameplay, new story to tell, and new goals ingame.

    Even marvel decided to wrap up marvel universe v1.

    I am sick and tired of expansion after expansion just for the cashgrab. Each expansion after mop pretty much felt just like it could have been a new patch and not a whole expansion.
    I honestly think that 9.0 is going to the last expansion . They cant milk this cow forever and Activision wants them making new games . NEw games = Stock increase

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanidor View Post
    For you maybe it is time to wrap up playing WoW. But for me and countless millions of other players, we are content and happy enough to continue playing.

    As long as there are subscribers, WoW will always continue banging out expansions. And I personally believe it has a very long life ahead.
    Countless millions? I would argue there is maybe 1 million left world wide . The game is not nearly as profitable as it once was, and as this games ages even more, it will be expensive to develop for and maintain . The cost of running the servers is only getting more expansive by the year. I believe it costs Blizzard something like 250k a month per server , not 100% sure on that figure but remember reading it in a article. Then you have the pressure from Activision forcing Blizzard to create new Ips and do it fast. WoW is coming to a close, the shareholders dont care about nostalgia, they care about ATVI stock price. They will sunset this game even if it still makes some money, in the hopes that Blizzard will create a new game that will make them significantly more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I think the game is fine now, but I do also like the idea of them wrapping it up. Open things up to a new Blizzard MMO (non-Warcraft related) and take the Warcraft franchise into a new non-MMO game type (not necessarily RTS, but I wouldn't mind that either).

    Ending current WoW to make a new Warcraft MMO sounds utterly stupid, though.
    Blizzard will never make another MMO. Its a dying genre and costs way too much money and time to creatte. The future of Blizzard is mobile games with a few PC games thrown out every so often
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  18. #98
    They should end it.

    Rebuild a new engine and do a time-skip of WoW.

    like Anduin's Great-Great-Greatx100's grandchild or something... is the new leader of Stormwind or whatever. The idea remains.

    New story, new threats, new villains... all on a new engine.

    Easier said than done, certainly.

    They could keep releasing mini-patches for WoW in the interim. No new zones, but new raids etc.


    What has GOT TO BE ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY... is strict adherence to canon.

    Have absolutely fantastic and cohesive storylines. Strong character development goes such a long way.

    POWER PROGRESSION!

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    That's hard to say. There are several examples of older games that are still going strong. Runescape is the biggest one that I know of.

    But you're correct in that the current video-games industry is super harsh. The amount of profit that's generally required for a game to be considered successful is ridiculously high. However, I think you should consider the angle that Blizzard may be moving more towards a subscription/service model similar to what other AAA publishers are doing: Offering a monthly subscription that provides access to multiple titles. EA-access, for example. If Activision/Blizzard adds more games to their subscription, like Diablo 4, Classic WoW, Call of Duty, Warcraft RTS remaster, etc, each individual game wouldn't have to be successful on its own.

    I don't know if that's actually what they're aiming at. I'm just saying it could be something they could do to justify things like Classic even if it doesn't overtake Modern wow.
    runescape is literally that company (jagex) only game of any note, people like to compare runescape to wow when it comes to classic but thats retarded as the timing, nature of change and company ecosystem and business models are radically different. there were far more reasons for old runescape to come back than just nostalgia it wasn't just incremental changes that took runescape from old to new, new runescape was a whole new game, and the desire wasnt from looking back with screems of no changes, OSRS changes and advances as much as retail wow does today. also runescape is free to play with the option to sub.

    and most importantly and the real reason why old school runescape is so popular is that it runs on mobile with the android and ios client, people like to conveniently forget that old runescape is now predominately played via mobile hence the source of its popularity when trying to use it as a possible comparison with wow classic.

    on the sub side, people would be way to pissed off if blizz started gating access to there games like cod and diablo behind a sub, it would be total suicide and counter productive to there mobile and micro transaction objectives. you get more $$ out of your mau's via free to play + cash shop and loot boxes than subs
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahlah View Post
    There's a reason most developers use macs which has to do with coding value and not just some oversimplified argument regarding price tag and because of this I have a mac laptop for my work in the tech industry
    honestly pissed my self laughing, macs for software dev...yea right.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Weeps View Post
    What has GOT TO BE ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY... is strict adherence to canon.

    Have absolutely fantastic and cohesive storylines. Strong character development goes such a long way.

    POWER PROGRESSION!
    So a singleplayer RPG?
    Expansion leak claiming Legion is the last expansion
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    NO it will be me laughing at how you doubted this....
    Quote Originally Posted by golds
    I was right

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