Jaina was NOT a Warbringer.... Tyrande was. (and I wish they'd talk to each other)

[thottstation]

Beware, beware, the daughter of the sea
Who frowned, looked sad, and cried
While Whisperwind waged bloody war
Avenging those who died



How exactly was Jaina a "Warbringer"? How did she live up to her animated short that got everyone so hyped?

Look at what she's done in BfA so far:

She came to the surprise rescue of the invasion force attacking Undercity, not leading the assault. She wasn't bringing war to the Forsaken. Was she even involved in the planning of the siege? And she wasn't so much culling Horde filth, but mostly repelling the plague; she was saving lives. Typical Jaina!

And when Anduin confronted Sylvanas, did Jaina yell for them to get out of her way and for someone to hold her hair while she buries some trash? No, she remained composed and silent, and visibly confused when Anduin mentioned Teldrassil, and then saved them all from the Blight. Jaina protects!

And did she then lead the war armada to Kul Tiras and decimate Horde forces? NOPE. She walked meekly to her mom and looked sad, and spent the entire war campaign crying in a dungeon until she was led to the isle of "no one returns alive", where she cried in her mental darkscape until heroes saved her and she could settle things with her mom... after saving the Kul Tiras fleet. Good ol' Jaina, saving lives again!

And in the Battle for Dazar'Alor, she spent her time protecting the ship, protecting her forces by slowing the Horde Champions with ice patches, and warning the chasing Zandalari Horde forces to turn back and "take care of their dead" rather than fight How merciful! She cares so much! Good ol' Jaina!

So where was the Warbringer?

If you rewatch the animated short, you see a completely different person who has yet to appear in BfA. And now that she's saving the Horde yet again alongside Baine, I doubt we'll ever see her.

Now Tyrande is a warbringer.

She openly defied Anduin and took her armies to Darkshore and waged open war, regardless of the cost and her High King's wishes. She literally chose to bring war to the Horde, while the "Warbringer" Jaina was either crying in a prison cell, crying in the Dark Dimension, hugging her mom and brother after making ammends, and is now talking with the honorable Baine on how best to save the Horde.

Jaina is no warbringer, and the animated short is the epitome of false advertising.



It's also a darn shame that we see so little interaction between Tyrande & Jaina as both of them seem to now have similar stories.

Both built homes in Kalimdor, and both saw them utterly obliterated. And both wanted the Horde dismantled in response, but the Human High King of the Alliance was like "...nah."

Recall the proximity-triggered conversations on Argus where we saw casual banter between Khadgar & Aethas, and also with Liadrin & Silgryn, the latter developing plot points. And yet we can't even get a simple one-to-one between these two women who lost everything they built to a monsterous Horde they foolishly believe they could share a continent with? Do they really have nothing to say to each other about walking through ruins filled with the literal ash of everyone they loved?

Of course, there could be potential animosity there. Tyrande has always believed the Horde were exactly that, while little miss "I just wanted to study" Jaina spent most of her life pushing for peaceful co-existence. There may very well be a "Do you GET IT now?" resentment simmering there. Tyrande is also a long-lived being, while Jaina has been around for 0.000001% of the Night Elf's life, so Tyrande may not have bothered to learn her name? Why would she? She's probably spent more total time in the bath than Jaina's lineage has existed. Interacting with the human mortal race is probably still something she's getting used to.


Still... it's just a shame there is no writer at Blizzard that is competent enough to write a simple conversation between two complicated women. Especially if Three Sisters was anything to go by. The fanbase had been waiting for years for the inevitable reunion of the Windrunner Sisters, and instead of grown adults with complex, messy lives at long last reunited and speaking to each other as real people with real problems and history, we got them playing "would you ever...." games as if they were 11yr old girls in the back of daddy's car on a long drive. The cringe and disappointment was palpable.

But then, BfA's two major plot points have both yielded great disappointment. BfA was advertised with two MAJOR happenings: The burning of the World Tree, and the long-awaited return of Jaina; the warbringer. And when peole ask "so what happened", we're forced to reply "Well, Jaina got to hug her mom and help save the Horde again, and Tyrande got revenge for her people by killing one of Sylvanas' valkyrs. So... yeah." And neither spoke a word to each other, because why would they? What have they got to talk about?

It's just a pity.

[united]

They don't care about the Night Elves. They actually said that Tyrande got her "revenge" (lol) and will be abandoning her story as the focus shifts to Azshara. That's the reasoning as of me writing this post, and it's really sad.

[Elise the Seeker]

We still have a whole lot of expansion to go through. We're just now getting Thrall and Jaina finally returned home. I'm sure there's a lot more to come for her.

Right now she's very powerful, so I'm sure once Azshara fully rises, so will Jaina.
Tyrande Vs Sylvanas.
Jaina Vs Azshara is what im hoping for.

[OIS]

I knew that picture would be posted haha

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

They either want to do a surprise fuck up that turns once again Jaina into a sort of warmonger... or you just have to face Blizz could not give any less fucks about night Elves.
Or both.

[Super Dickmann]

The writers hate conflict that can't be framed in black and white terms and have as their end goal the abolition of the factions to settle the problem of a dwindling playerbase. This requires the neutering of characters and races that have justifiable grievances, such as how Jaina somehow finds out her dad is wrong by having a spirit quest despite having no indication in the behaviour of the Horde of this being the case, denying the Horde an antagonist and the Alliance a proactive, vicious figure to rally behind. This is seen again with the entire Kul Tiran race who apparently also accept that Daelin was wrong apropo of nothing despite having ample evidence of his rectitude within the same story.

Tyrande meanwhile was never meant to be a focus despite her people being the objects of genocide. They're just there as fodder in order to motivate the sadorc into rebellion and ensure that when Anduin goes to war someone else shot first and at the same time he and his people aren't harmed since that might keep them away from the flawless spotlight.

All that having been said I'm pretty sure that there's decent chances the two will meet, it'll just be Tyrande cast as in the wrong for still holding a grudge and Jaina showing her that, oh, she too was on the path of vengeance, but through the grace of God she's seen the light. Then they'll both become peaceful.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Btw, am I the only sick guy who sees that drawing as a prelude of some sexual thing coming?

[matrix123mko]

They don't care about the Night Elves. They actually said that Tyrande got her "revenge" (lol) and will be abandoning her story as the focus shifts to Azshara. That's the reasoning as of me writing this post, and it's really sad.

Will Tauren ever avenge Taurajo?

[Super Dickmann]

Will Tauren ever avenge Taurajo?

They did. They helped put Baine in the slammer, avenging their fellow cows, now in exile.

[Eggroll]

Btw, am I the only sick guy who sees that drawing as a prelude of some sexual thing coming?

Yes. 10char

[Rozz]

I personally feel like they've flopped with all their races in favor of strengthening their human ones.

At this point I would love if Tyrande slowly became more jaded and cynical like Staghelm towards the Alliance and other races. She doesn't have to be evil, but fury is a right her people have earned. NEs are so reserved when they deserve to more suspicious of even their own allies. In the leather working quest, the NE girl had a moment where she nearly (and rightfully) sneered towards the actions of her supposed 'allies'. Quickly took it back, but I want to see those bitter seeds flourish. The Alliance does kinda suck for everyone but humans, but none of the members want to talk about it. The Horde had similar issues that were dealt with when Garrosh was axed. I have no idea why the writers wanted to waste BfA's story to reset the Horde's moral progression, instead of giving the Alliance their own proper closure.

[tripleh]

When you start to understand that Steve Danuser and Alex are the problem. Then you start to see why the wow story/lore sucks so bad. Tyrande and Jaina both have holes in parts of there story in BFA. Because Danuser is pushing more development for Sylvannas. While ignoring the other factions leaders. They were quick to write that Zuldazar raid was payback for Teldrassil. Only so they wouldn't have to do anymore for the nightelves. But the nightelves and Tyrande themselves wanted help with darkshore and were against the invasion on Zandalar. They didn't even participate in the fighting. Shows how ignorant the wow devs and narrative team are currently. Activision needs to step in and add some of there names to the next round of layoffs.

[Eggroll]

The Horde had similar issues that were dealt with when Garrosh was axed. I have no idea why the writers wanted to waste BfA's story to reset the Horde's moral progression, instead of giving the Alliance their own proper closure.

Since devs all play Horde they are too caught up in their Horde echo chamber, the Alliance is like an NPC faction to them, they are simply abused as plot devices.

@OP I had almost the same thought. Well, why was Tyrande not a Warbringer at least. She is a racial leader, she clearly has grievances with the Horde AND Azshara.

[dkey89]

Was Khadgar a harbinger of the Legion?
Was Maraad a Warlord of Draenor?

Based on historic precedent it just means that, for the immediate future at least, this characters are going to be in the foreground, and probably wrapped up after the expansion is done. Maraad died and Khadgar decided to become neutral in the conflict. We don't know how Jaina's story is going to end, but most likely it will end.

[Rozz]

When you start to understand that Steve Danuser and Alex are the problem.

I'm glad someone isn't trying to blame Christie Golden for once. While people may not always like her writing, she at least picks up neglected story elements and the dialogue she's made for cinematics is quite enjoyable. She isn't perfect and has her own biases, but I feel she has a better grasp of characterization than the other two.

[Swnem]

Simple. She was warbringer cause she gathered the Kul'tirans and attacked Zandalar. Can't get more warbringer than that.

[Rozz]

Since devs all play Horde they are too caught up in their Horde echo chamber, the Alliance is like an NPC faction to them, they are simply abused as plot devices.

With heritage armor and Allied races being BfA's feature, you'd think revisiting the races and their politics would be an easy choice for the story. The Alliance alone has enough to carry a story line for 2-3 expansions.

[Super Dickmann]

I'm glad someone isn't trying to blame Christie Golden for once. While people may not always like her writing, she at least picks up neglected story elements and the dialogue she's made for cinematics is quite enjoyable. She isn't perfect and has her own biases, but I feel she has a better grasp of characterization than the other two.

Golden is abysmal and @tripleh is wrong about her and Sylvanas, in that Sylvanas has zero screen time too, but right about the rest. Jaina is to in-game screentime and cinematics what Saurfang is to fully rendered cinematics and Nathanos is to Horde questing because they are the pets of the relevant writers, Golden, Afrasiabi and Danuser respectively. Golden has no grasp on anything except the occasional bit of pull at your heart strings pathos, and she, as Baine's sole writer, is the reason why he's so atrocious. She's also responsible for both Tides of War and Before the Storm, which are Knaak-tier. None of the writing staff understand or care about night elves because they're neither sadorcs whining about muh honor nor lawful good carriers of human potential that can do no wrong.

[Amaterasu65]

Honestly both had the potential to be warbringers, especially Tyrande. Jaina softened after her family plot was solved and she's not thirsty for Horde blood unprovoked. Tyrande on the other hsnd should definitely go ham on both Horde and Naga in Nazjatar. She should have been there with Shandris and Jaina. Jaina and Shandris wanting a truce/team with Lor'themar and Thalyssra against a common enemy, while Tyrande would refuse and try to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. It would also be a great opportunity for a Thalyssra vs Tyrande fight so we can see what both of them are thinking about the War of Thorns. Tyrande would judge Thalyssra for siding with Sylvanas and Thalyssra would be arguing that her behavior didn't give her a choice.

Point is, so many characters that have beef/stuff with each other could meet in Nazjatar. Tyrande/Thalyssra/Azshara/Shandris/Lor'themar could all have interactions with each other. Interactions both meant to progress the ongoing war between factions and the greater purpose of going to Nazjatar.

[Reivur]

Beware, beware, the daughter of the sea
Who frowned, looked sad, and cried
While Whisperwind waged bloody war
Avenging those who died



How exactly was Jaina a "Warbringer"? How did she live up to her animated short that got everyone so hyped?

Look at what she's done in BfA so far:

She came to the surprise rescue of the invasion force attacking Undercity, not leading the assault. She wasn't bringing war to the Forsaken. Was she even involved in the planning of the siege? And she wasn't so much culling Horde filth, but mostly repelling the plague; she was saving lives. Typical Jaina!

It's just a pity.

Haha. I pretty much agree with the sentiment that Tyrande would have been a far more appropriate Warbringer at the very least; she's always had a more focused drive at being war-oriented in general. Unfortunately though because they decided they wanted to do Kul'tirans, with them likely being some of the only lore left beyond them having to establish new stuff from here on out. (What's left really... Undermine? And the vague light/void shit they're slowly setting up?) So Jaina obviously was used as a bridge, but her being a diplomat != she had to be a Warbringer either.

I do think certain things you're reaching on though. In particular in your attempt to condemn Jaina as a bad choice all around you contradict yourself. You're right, Jaina wasn't involved in the Siege planning. It seemingly turned into a "surprise rescue" because the moron was rolling into Undercity by herself to kill it/'bring war to it' as you'd say. Now would she have succeeded? Probably not. Is it a reach for me to say that this was the case and she didn't happen to notice? Unfortunately no, she has a history of this same coincidental dumb shit in her writing.

See Tides of War, where after her perfect Dragon Boyfriend massages her feet and gives her hot chocolate with magically conjured marshmellows she finally calms down from her Arthas-tantrum, and it just so happens that the Alliance was fighting in the area of which she would have drowned with Orgrimmar in her rage, so she swoops by and saves the day thus redeeming her theoretical Arthas-tantrum she was totally going to do if she didn't get her hot chocolate. Its the same damn writing mechanism used. Twice. From the same author. Because heaven forbid her going in solo and overestimating herself shouldn't have any comeuppence at all.

Also unrelated but still agree Baine is a complete trash fire and he ruins any plot element he touches. Ugh.