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  1. #1

    Minor detail about Farondis and Suramar

    I don't know if this is significant - but I hope it leads to something good for night elves.

    In a nut shell:


    • Farondis Court ghosts aren't undead, but humanoid - they aren't your usual dead person whose spirit exists on. Azshara did something tot hem that is not normal, could this mean it can be undone?
    • Horde portal to Broken Isles isn't Suramar City - this is odd if the horde totally control Suramar - is this an indication that plans exist for more of Suramar and the original kaldorei might have a part of it?

    It's a long short, but here are some details.

    Full Version

    1. Farondis Court are all humanoid - not undead : This is interesting - because they don't operate quite like your normal ghost nor your undead - notice the night elves of Black rook hold whether ghostly or corporeal are undead. Not these.

    I wish they would write a story to restore them. Because I loved this group, loved the story, and felt it was so important for the night elves as they are a highborne group that neither fell to arcane addiction nor followed the Queen in any way with the legion.
    They were the first to rebel against Azshara, and probably the spark for the rebellion/resistance that inspired Malfurion and the others.
    Her swift and strong response to them, explains why other Highborne groups like the Shen'drlaar and Elisande's Suramar highborne took a longer time to act against her.
    I noticed they had priestesses and druids amongst htem, which indicates they were one of the few places that still embraced all the other aspects of the night elves fully.
    They are an example of what the highborne were originally before arrogance and addiction dominated the people's view of the caste in Zin'Azshari.
    It would be such a great ending/new beginning for htem if they got restored - when I look at all the tragic stories of the night elves, this is one of the most heart breaking, and if any should be undone it's them.
    Farondis shows us that while he is a great arcane user and bleives in the art, he is definitely against both abuse (when he asks us to stopt he rebel Farondis ghosts at Well Spring) and opposes the corruption and evil wherever it is (fighting the legion, naga and the evil nightborne in Azsuna)

    Potential:
    Well the night elves need the numbers at the moment, this can be one source of them
    They are perhaps the only authentic highborne group that can command the respect of both druids and priests and all kaldorei - both highborne and non-highborne as everyone knows of their exploits as the ones who tried to stop the Queen. While questions of mistrust might linger in some night elves regarding the redeemed Shend'ralar led group, there would be no question with the Farondis.
    They are the highborne group that can fully restore the respect of ALL the night elves and be key to an arcane legacy as fully respected and revered alongside the priests and druids under Farondis

    Prince Farondis' return offers an opportunity for new Kaldorei leadership and for Tyrande and MAlfurion to retire from that and become Order heads, it allows a legitimate kaldorei heir to lead, allowing Malfurion to be neutral leading druids and emerald dream specialists - while the order of Elune can expand including all the kaldorei off shoots (certainly nightborne) but potentially more including some void elves drawn by the dark side of the moon if blizzard ever decide to build night elf void elf relationship
    With the nightborne gone horde, they could be large enough and powerful enough to restore the majestic arcane side of the night elves - so I mean, not just a number addition lost in kaldorei ruins, but fully restored kaldorei civilization and arcana like we see in Suramar - the pristine level. i'm not usere if this would mean a new city or restored ruins or sharing Suramar.. who knows.


    2. Why are the horde portals to the Broken Isles in Azsuna and not Suramar - could this be significant and be leading to something? I noticed that only the insntanced portion of Suramar is horde nightobnre, not the rest. And I would expect the hord eto have gotten the Orgrimmar portal to Suramar. But it's not.

    could this possibly mean they still have plans for kaldorei and alliance involvement in Suramar? I awlays felt it wa s a bad idea to cut the ngiht elves completely out of the nightborne, I feel they should have found a way to allow the nightborne to exist on both factions, and for me the best solution seemed that the nightborne who side with the kaldorei transition to their original kaldorei form via the arcan'dor fruit effects (possibly being accelerated) while those who remain on the horde get linked to the Sunwell keeping their form. Allowing Suramar to be a city where the kaldorei return and mix with their kin long separated from allowing a form of rebuilding, while not affecting the fact that some have allied with the horde.

    I also felt that the nightborne should not be faction centric, so they reject this "whole race must swear allegiance" b/s, and it ends up being a case some believe in the kaldorei, some feel the sin'dorei but it boils down to not being fanatical about the factions and more like the 10,000 year old responsible adults that put their foot down against certain matters - so when a horde warchieve decides to genocide a people, the horde nightborne wont' join in, nor would the kaldorei nightborne assist the alliance in any evil scheme - and their allies can take it or leave it - That's just a hope.


    I wonder if Suramar is planned to be a city accessible to both kaldorei and shal'dorei - lliket he shald'orei horde dominating the palace section, whereas the kaldorei and others the non-instanced part oft he city.

  2. #2
    But they aren't humans so i don't see how that could work?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Frozenbeef View Post
    But they aren't humans so i don't see how that could work?
    Silly me, totally forgot - no human potential involved in this. Thank you.. nearly fell for he trap of hoping for something good in Warcraft.

  4. #4
    Forsaken npc's are humanoid as well.... rotting limbs, decay.. flesh falling off.



    edit:

    similar thing with some demons being demons and others being 'beast'

    might not mean anything

  5. #5
    Its just a gameplay characterisation not a lore one.

  6. #6
    I would not really care how they are doing it but I would love to see Farondis and his night elfs join Tyrande/Malf. Together with then Shen'dralar they would fit much better with the current night elfs then the night borne every would.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    I would not really care how they are doing it but I would love to see Farondis and his night elfs join Tyrande/Malf. Together with then Shen'dralar they would fit much better with the current night elfs then the night borne every would.
    I agree with this.

  8. #8

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    I would not really care how they are doing it but I would love to see Farondis and his night elfs join Tyrande/Malf. Together with then Shen'dralar they would fit much better with the current night elfs then the night borne every would.

    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    I agree with this.
    I don't entirely agree with you. I agree that I would love to see the Farondis join the Darnassian, and I agree they are an even better fit than the shen'dralar/nightborne, but I don't think the shen'dralar are any better than the nightborne as a fit.- the nightborne, like the shen'dralar came out of that Azhsara palace highobrne addicted state, and at least amongst both the nightborne and shend'aalar both worked against Azshara - I think they have a lot more in common with each other - afterall they are the night elf version of arcane addiction and this is where it all started, and this is where the night elves both solve the problem in both how to prevent it and how to cure it with the Arcan'dor and a balanced lifestyle.)

    The Farondis are a cut above either of them, they did not side or put up with or toeleratehte QUeen with the legion and they actually come across as non-arrogant and arcane responsible like you would imagine night elves wree pretty much for most of the pre-sundering era until Azshara started going off the rails, and while most highborne close to her followed suit,t hese ones did not in anyway. The shen'drlaar have the stain of doing nothing until their city was attacked, and the nightborne did not iimmediately spring to action either, Elisande moved only when the Legion were going to use theirh ome as ground stage zero, then chose nott o join the resistance forming from her own very city after she had stopped the second portal and fought with them against the demons that destroyed part of the city.


    Furhtermore, during the last 10k years, the shen'drlaar sucked power form a demon to maintain their lavish lifestyle rather than face reality or consequences, the night elves that became nightborne had a better excuse because they believed the world over urn with demons and the city the last safe spot.. the excessive use of the arcane for food cameout of their perceived necessity when the city, cut off from the world ran low on resources of food and clothing and os they had to resort to utilising the arcane in this fashion sealing their fater and chronic addiction.


    Which is why I call b/s on anyone who feels the nightborne can't join the night elves, when the Shend'ralar already did, and both shen'drlaar and nightborne have a redemption story arc - the shend'ralar's one is mentioned in chronicles, they weaned themselves off addiction after being expelled form Dire Maul, and approached the kaldorei free of corruption in cataclysm, wheras the nightborne were actively helped by Valewalker Farodin and the Vals'sharah refugees and Moonguard, , and together they cured their addiction and liberated the city. - how on earth do people think that if the kaldorei daranssians could accept the shen'dralar they would not accept the nightborne who very clearly and decisively opposed Elisande inviting the legion and clearly fought to stop it, this time going all the way unlike in the war of the ancients.

    Saying that I do agree the Farondis are a cut above either group morally, because they acted correctly, honourably with the same sacred value for the arcane that the night elves had empire wide prior to addiction.. and this is also reflected. Having drudis and priests amongst them, both being honoured in their fields, is basically the ideao f the night elves before arcane addiction and arrogance changed the palace lot.

  10. #10
    Well you could have certainly wrote the night borne in a way that they fit into the night elf society but how they are currently portrayed.. I have my doubts. For them night elfs are simply low born, they love their royality names and long family heritage. Thats something that will not boat well with the night elfs. Sure this could be also true for the Shen'dralar but they are so decimated that they just can't keep up their "traditions". They were basically like "We fucked up really badly but we can be still useful to you, please take us back Tyrande".
    Farondis wanted to do the right thing from the start and I agree, he and his people fits better then the Shen'dralar I agree.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    Well you could have certainly wrote the night borne in a way that they fit into the night elf society but how they are currently portrayed.. I have my doubts. For them night elfs are simply low born, they love their royality names and long family heritage. Thats something that will not boat well with the night elfs. Sure this could be also true for the Shen'dralar but they are so decimated that they just can't keep up their "traditions". They were basically like "We fucked up really badly but we can be still useful to you, please take us back Tyrande".
    Farondis wanted to do the right thing from the start and I agree, he and his people fits better then the Shen'dralar I agree.
    I think we have two types of nightborne portrayed in legion, the nighrtborne remember are KAldorei pre-sundering society frozen at the stage it was around the time of the firsti nvasion of the legion - when addiction had become a real thing, the highborne, especially those close to Azshara hd become relaly arrogant.

    War of the Ancients depicts it quite well, and you would notice, if you read the Well of Eternity book, that Suramar in Legion is lifted out of those pages and fleshed out a bit more in detail to show both how arrogant the night elves could be but also that nobility was still around

    In 7.0, we saw the arrogant elisande loyalists who acceptedthe demons invasion boast a lot about lowborne to the disguise you wear. However not all are like this. The rebels who opposed Elisande, like Thalyssra, and Ly#leth Lunastre have the sort of nobility you see in Tyrande, Malfurion and Prince Farondis and many other a good night elf.

    So really it was easy for them to split the nightborne even after legion, the more arrogant haughty type would likely look down on the current kaldorei who live in ruins, and nature - ignoring completely the fact that they HAD to live like this to stop the legion returning and were paying the price for the folly of the entire race, and by their sacrifice kept the legion at bay allowing surmaar to remain undisturbed till the most recent invasion.. then you have the other type who behaved very much like tyanrd and the other suramar lot who formed the resistance - fighting the legion and displaying a nobility to them. I feel these should have joined the alliance - and to keep them distinct fromt he horde bunch, they should have given them their original kaldorei forms - if the Arcan'dor cured the addiction, maybe accelerating the effect reverses the nightwell transition or maybe the recently reclaimed font of elune in the Cathedral of Eternal night was able to completely purify the arcane istortion from the nightwell, allowing these ones to switch back to kaldorie.

    This resulted in alliance nightbonre having night elf bodies with arcane runes - effectively fully kaldorei again, while horde nightborne maintained the shal'dorei form.


    But alas blizzard I don't think actually cared to save the night elf story they started. Senior execs, decided, ah okay the horde should have nightborne, and creative didn't step in at all to ensure the night elves kept nightborne but as returned to their original night elven state. allowing the story of suramar to continue the night elf recovery line.

  12. #12
    Farondis is a reasonably well written character... and I hate him.

    I hate him because we got a zone dedicated to dead elves that didn't exist before Legion, wasn't really meaningful for anyone, and made death even more of a revolving door than it already is.


    We should've given Mordent Evenshade his lines on Alliance and Rommath his lines on Horde and they could've faced down Azshara's little murdersquad together.
    Twas brillig

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Farondis is a reasonably well written character... and I hate him.

    I hate him because we got a zone dedicated to dead elves that didn't exist before Legion, wasn't really meaningful for anyone, and made death even more of a revolving door than it already is.


    We should've given Mordent Evenshade his lines on Alliance and Rommath his lines on Horde and they could've faced down Azshara's little murdersquad together.
    Well, this is why I badly want them restored. Not only for the things it could mean overall to progressing NElves, but because I want it to play a role today

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Well, this is why I badly want them restored. Not only for the things it could mean overall to progressing NElves, but because I want it to play a role today
    That's dumb though, if people can be dead for thousands of years and then rezzed, then death doesn't mean anything.
    Twas brillig

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    • Farondis Court ghosts aren't undead, but humanoid - they aren't your usual dead person whose spirit exists on. Azshara did something tot hem that is not normal, could this mean it can be undone?
    • Horde portal to Broken Isles isn't Suramar City - this is odd if the horde totally control Suramar - is this an indication that plans exist for more of Suramar and the original kaldorei might have a part of it?
    .
    1. Blizzard routinely forgets to categorize undead mobs as undead. Skeletons in Maw of Souls aren't even classified as undead. Elementals in Neltharion's Lair are classified as humanoid, and so on. This is yet another mistake.

    2. Blizzard didn't want to have TWO portals to Dalaran, so they just picked an area close to it, instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Oberyn Martell View Post
    Islam is a race. End of discussion.
    Nazi btw

  16. #16
    Suramar vs. Azuna warfront.

    I could see that happening

    (Hopefully just a warfront lore / story without the warfront scenario gameplay mechanic, got feed up of darkshore and arathi ones)

  17. #17
    Farondis and his people will be made into living things, and boom High Elves. FOR THE HORDE!
    Retail sucks. Classic sucks. No positivity, only negative feedback. Why is everybody so damn miserable? Must be somebody else's fault, it couldn't possibly be my INSANELY TOXIC ATTITUDE.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    That's dumb though, if people can be dead for thousands of years and then rezzed, then death doesn't mean anything.
    I don't really care at this point. In warcraft its harder to stay dead then to get somehow rezzt since a long time already.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    That's dumb though, if people can be dead for thousands of years and then rezzed, then death doesn't mean anything.
    Not unless they arent actually dead and it is related to the type of curse they are actually under. It just seems like they are dead.

    But another explanation could be they are slightly out of phase. A curse is a curse.

    It doesnt really matter, their condition is a creative choice and can be undone just as easily as it was done.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Not unless they arent actually dead and it is related to the type of curse they are actually under. It just seems like they are dead.

    But another explanation could be they are slightly out of phase. A curse is a curse.

    It doesnt really matter, their condition is a creative choice and can be undone just as easily as it was done.
    This would be a retcon. No one ingame refers to them as 'out of phase' they're dead. They're ghosts. One guy was stuck 'drowning' under a pillar for thousands of years for crying out loud.
    Twas brillig

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