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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    Atleast with Horde vs Alliance the outcome is not sure.
    If we face a old God or NPC faction we always have 100% victory with maybe a few death.
    Atleast with a faction conflict it can go either way.
    With a faction conflict, it will go Status Quo, again.

  2. #42
    I think the problem with the faction conflict is that it's been so poorly executed for a long time, you have one horde leader become cartoon villain level evil - the rest of the Horde are like wow they're pretty ruthless until someone says "wait up man, that's too far" and we get a internal faction conflict - all the while the Alliance just sits at the side being like "we could just swoop in while they're infighting, but that's mean"

    It was okay in MoP, it's boring now.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by tromage2 View Post
    Atleast with Horde vs Alliance the outcome is not sure.
    If we face a old God or NPC faction we always have 100% victory with maybe a few death.
    Atleast with a faction conflict it can go either way.
    No, it just goes nowhere when it's HvA, because Blizzard can't let either side decisively win, no matter how many acts of genocide the Horde carry out, and no matter how hard the Alliance tries to fight back, it's all going to end in a stalemate, which is very unsatisfying.
    No ideology has been more murderous or detrimental to human dignity than Communism
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    Oh my...

  4. #44
    I think the problems with the faction war/Horde and Alliance focus is twofold. Well, for me it's those 2 issues atleast.

    The first is as others mentioned, there can't be a real conclussion to the war within WoW. Every story needs an ending, it's what makes it satisfying to read/watch a good story. Having it going on for all eternity, knowing that the result is gonna be more of the same isn't satisfying in the least.

    The second is that the factions aren't coherent enough to make a believable faction war happen. Trolls have just as much reason to hate the Nightborne and Blood elves as they do the humans. Yet Rok'han calls out Turalyon in the Arathi warfront, saying that Arathi was troll land, long before the Alliance even existed. This is even more apparent for the Revantusk trolls, who have even more reasons to hate the 2 elf factions. It's not even just that, there's actual humans within the Horde to begin with. It's the same in the Alliance, Night Elves spied and sabotaged the Blood Elves in Quel'thalas, yet they're somehow okay with High Elves, even though the game director himself pointed out that they are the same race. Void elves and LFD are more of the same, at best they tolerate one another to fight their mutual enemies, for now.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Orgrim. Now, he did lose the war in the end, but at least he was fighting it in a competent manner. And then helped free Orcs from internment and had a sort of a mini-redemption arc for losing the Second War. So he wasn't a complete failure like Gul'dan's boytoy Blackhand, Alliance appeaser full of green guilt Thrall or mouthbreathing retard antagonizing entire races allied to him at a time while at war, when he really needed their support called Garrosh.
    Leave it to Gul'dan to protect your backline, right? I think the moral of the story is the Horde are the bad guys and they have to do something stupid eventually.
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  6. #46
    Sweet blog post.

    You're wrong by the way.

  7. #47
    It does suck that the fraction war is centre-stage. I was happier with a fragile peace and minor skirmishes and most of the focus on the big bad who threatened all of Azeroth. But no, Blizzard in a move designed to channel the origins of the game, made it all about faction pride and killing the opposing faction. How sad the game has come to this.
    "Come what come may, Time and the hour runs through the roughest day." — William Shakespeare.

  8. #48
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnigmAddict View Post
    Anyone else? I'm just fed up and i want to RAGE !!

    It's just come to dominate EVERYTHING - the playerable races have lost their identity and exist only for the express purpose of the horde or the alliance.

    All players think about races is purely in terms of the horde and alliance too.. horde fans hate every alliance race adn can't imagine them outside the confines of the faction, alliance players hate horde races can't only view them as hordies... i'm just sick of it.

    I don't mind races joining t he horde and alliance because we have to have t2 factions, but when everything becomes dominated by this - with no grey area - it feels like warcraft only has two nations. One called horde and one called alliance.

    Whoever thought it was a good idea to drop down from the WC3 expanded factions back down to two is responsible for the messing up of racial lore - because it was too convenient to fall into the trap of only writing for 2 sides.
    People did ask for more focus on it..
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    People did ask for more focus on it..
    And again we can see how what people asked for is wildly different from wat they got. I always knew that faction war SUCKS. It was good back in Panda as a small part of the whole plot, but as a driving force of it... No, it just dosent work, never will work, cant work in game like WoW (and in most MMOs really).

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    And again we can see how what people asked for is wildly different from wat they got. I always knew that faction war SUCKS. It was good back in Panda as a small part of the whole plot, but as a driving force of it... No, it just dosent work, never will work, cant work in game like WoW (and in most MMOs really).
    I recall back in MoP/WoD/Legion people asked for the "stop working together, the game is called 'warcraft' so more Alliance Vs. Horde" kinda..
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  11. #51
    It's the Horde V. Alliance expansion, dude. That's like complaining that WOD had too many orcs.

    Though I'm with you in hoping we get future content that focuses more on individual races and their stories, maybe in the vein of order halls.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    I recall back in MoP/WoD/Legion people asked for the "stop working together, the game is called 'warcraft' so more Alliance Vs. Horde" kinda..
    I only heard it from Horde faction fanatics like some very vocal blood elf RPers or especially toxic undead plus some “me smash” orc zug-zugs. Most people enjoyed Legion despite Horde saying that it was “Alliance focused”. While BfA seems to suck for everybody which is kinda telling. Plus as other said before - no faction can win so conflict is pointless.

  13. #53
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Its pretty much been the case every expansion except Legion. Which largely abandoned the faction conflict outside of Stormheim and focused on a class-driven story instead.
    To be fair, i would't even count Legion, as the Stormheim conflict, felt more like 2 races fighting for their own reasons (Forsaken vs Worgen) instead of just Alliance vs Horde

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    I do wish we had more race lore or INTRA-FACTION interactions but that's not really a consequence of the Horde/Alliance it's a problem from Blizz's writing style. We saw the same issues with Legion where the orcs/tauren/trolls got lumped into the human warrior class hall and the Priest class hall was all about the light/shadow no Elune or Loa or anything.
    I agree, each race should make itself feel inside the faction, not just be another new face

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    To be fair, i would't even count Legion, as the Stormheim conflict, felt more like 2 races fighting for their own reasons (Forsaken vs Worgen) instead of just Alliance vs Horde
    Stormheim wasn't faction war, that was Worgen having a feeling Forsaken were up to no good (which they of course were, damn rotters).

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    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    I only heard it from Horde faction fanatics like some very vocal blood elf RPers or especially toxic undead plus some “me smash” orc zug-zugs. Most people enjoyed Legion despite Horde saying that it was “Alliance focused”. While BfA seems to suck for everybody which is kinda telling. Plus as other said before - no faction can win so conflict is pointless.
    I didn't mind MoP's recipe, hence why it is one of my favorites. Not keen on BFA's but I am keen on seeing if they could bring leaders in more instead of them being by standers.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
    Roses are red, mana is blue. Suramar Guards, Will always find you!

  15. #55
    They could ressurect whole Horde vs. Alliance hate and make story greater and better than one in pandaria even when nobody gets total victory.

    But what we got?

    Sylvanas.
    Saved Horde in Broken Shore but now is just villian and enemy of all. No matter what end she get or what she do. People will be very disapointed. Either people who support her or people who hate her for her ....evil.

    Saurfang and rebellion.
    Don't get me wrong, Saurfang was prety good character before BFA. But now he is just ... mistake. Alliance sympatizer that created rebellion based on friendship to Alliance. Baine returning Derek to Jaina. Thrall who was always first person who want peace with humans and some minor characters that just ...forget that war even exist.

    Alliance.
    And maybe worst thing ...and i tell this as full time Horde main who hate Alliance. They get no war story at all. First is story about Jaina's family. Now it's all about support for Baine against Sylvanas and war against Azshara with Horde characters together.

    Where is faction war? Only character that actually care about this war is someone who is hated by almost every leader in her own faction because she using everything for win.

    Because its very dishonorable or something.

    So. I don't know what are you sick of. But there is no faction war with focus on Horde and Alliance. There is only MoP II where rebelion started at patch x.1.0 and not patch x.4.0.
    Last edited by Artelia; 2019-05-27 at 07:27 PM.

  16. #56
    Immortal Khaza-R's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    To be fair, i would't even count Legion, as the Stormheim conflict, felt more like 2 races fighting for their own reasons (Forsaken vs Worgen) instead of just Alliance vs Horde
    Good point. I had forgotten that it was 100% Gilneas acting in Stormheim.

    I guess I should give Legion more credit because Worgen/Forsaken story in Stormheim and the Blood Elf/Night Elf conflict in Suramar were some of better ways they've handled the faction story in years.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Gehco View Post
    Stormheim wasn't faction war, that was Worgen having a feeling Forsaken were up to no good (which they of course were, damn rotters).

    - - - Updated - - -



    I didn't mind MoP's recipe, hence why it is one of my favorites. Not keen on BFA's but I am keen on seeing if they could bring leaders in more instead of them being by standers.
    It leads the factions, races and leaders into idiocy. Horde are either moronic supporters of genocide and minions of evil or just THAT stupid to keep following anybody who can shout loudly. While Alliance are portrayed as stupidly naive to the point of retardation, unrealistically forgiving and impotent. And that aside from damage that was done to Night elfs and Forsaken.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    The problem is that the faction war in and of itself cannot carry an expansion story with the current writing team's level of "talent." The writing requires too many plot holes, too many factors pushed to the wayside, and too many characters derailed or pushed into situations they have no rational reason to be in in order to make the faction conflict work. It's especially egregious when amorphous 'spirits' told Vol'jin to select a known omnicidal maniac to lead the Horde when the Horde was still picking up the pieces from Garrosh's disastrous turn into maniacal villainy and the fallout therein. It was painfully obvious this story choice was influenced outside the plot in order to push the faction conflict from a B-plot (which it's been since the second half of Warcraft 3) into the A-plot, even if only for the first half of BFA, and the current story status (the entire landfill being on fire) is indicative of the writing team's complete inability to make a faction war work.

    If the faction war wants the A-plot, it needs good writing. Factors that put one faction at a clear disadvantage should be addressed and countered, not quietly ignored without so much as a passing reference. If the Ancients have such strong ties to the night elves but ignore the Horde burning Teldrassil and desecrating wide swaths of Darkshore, explain why. If the Vindicaar is unable to fire on the Horde when the Horde was stonewalled by wisps for a week, explain why. If the Cenarion Circle hasn't declared war on the Horde after aforementioned ecological devastation, explain why. If the Ebon Blade aren't mobilizing against someone whose stated goal is to wipe out all life on Azeroth, explain why. If the Silver Hand hasn't put Sylvanas in their sights after what went down at the Undercity, explain why.

    "This isn't the story we want to tell" is bad fanfic-level justification. It's something the troll who wrote My Immortal as "Tara Gillespie" would use in ff.net feedback comments to defend their work as part of the masquerade. When this is the quality of writing we have to expect from the faction war, don't get shitty when someone gets sick of the faction war and wants it to be the hell over with. When you're fed a steady buffet of bullshit, you're fully in your rights to say "I'm tired of eating bullshit, can I get a burger instead?"
    I've been looking for something to explain all these whys since the start of this lore shitshow called BFA. like why did the cenarious got personally got involved against orcs in WC3 but then decided that meh its not worth it when sylvanas did the same thing to not only his sacred woods, but to his beloved race and other ancients and wildlife.

  19. #59
    Old God Maxilian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaza-R View Post
    Good point. I had forgotten that it was 100% Gilneas acting in Stormheim.

    I guess I should give Legion more credit because Worgen/Forsaken story in Stormheim and the Blood Elf/Night Elf conflict in Suramar were some of better ways they've handled the faction story in years.
    Yeah, as they gave each group of the faction some agency, i mean... BFA could be so much more if we could see a little more agency from each faction, i remember that Blizzard pointed out that many people in the Horde are rallying behind Sylvanas, because she's bringing something new, but she's giving a promise of peace while bringing change, BUT HECK! WHY DON'T WE SEE THIS IN GAME?! Why don't we see the BE stand on it, the Orcs stand on it, the different races stand on it....

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxilian View Post
    Yeah, as they gave each group of the faction some agency, i mean... BFA could be so much more if we could see a little more agency from each faction, i remember that Blizzard pointed out that many people in the Horde are rallying behind Sylvanas, because she's bringing something new, but she's giving a promise of peace while bringing change, BUT HECK! WHY DON'T WE SEE THIS IN GAME?! Why don't we see the BE stand on it, the Orcs stand on it, the different races stand on it....
    Because its pants on heads dumb and whoever said that was about as stupid as 80% of Blizz writers are who speak whatever comes out of their asses immediately, not even thinking?

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