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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Nostalgia only lasts so long, my dad bought a refurbished version of his old car during his midlife crisis, and he talked about it alot like people talk about classic, how great it was, blah blah. After 6 months he was sick of it. He loved the first few months then all the little niggles and kinks started getting to him, no power stearing, no aircon, bad mpg, no electric windows. Eventualy he sold it on to another bloak having his crisis.

    Nostalgia wears off, the "classic experience" isn't what people try to make it out to be, it has heavy tedious elements that give it a shelf life.
    Oh, I actually agree with this. It was apparent for me when I quit the beta at level 8. Now, don't get me wrong perhaps the bigger issue was questioning why bother investing precious time into it knowing it was going to get wiped at release, but still. There was just too many QoL changes after classic that is going to be tedious to get over.

  2. #182
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    I want to play Pokemon Gold, not its mechanics.
    I want to play Ocarina of Time, not its mechanics
    I want to Play Metal Gear Solid, not its mechanics

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that we like playing games that we grew up with????????

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You're spouting the same rhetoric that they do.



    This entire point falls flat because Classic is being made for people who have already played vanilla and know what it's like.

    Yet another talking point thrown around by people doomsaying that Classic is going to """"fail"""".
    I’m not so sure about this. As another said in this thread, I would say that at least half the people that play Classic either never played it, or started late and wasn’t able to participate or complete some end game content. I would garner that it’ll be more people of the 2nd group honestly. Many more if we truly knew after launch.

    I have no idea how that’ll affect numbers months after launch. It can be argued either way honestly. Those that played will stay because they know what to expect. Those that didn’t play will stay because they want to see everything. With LFR now and the inclusion we have with retail endgame content, as opposed to the very limited number of people that actually raided true end game Vanilla, I can be argued that the number of people that raid in Classic could be very high.

    Guess we’ll see how many people are truly interested in doing everything required to raid in Classic. Truth is nobody really knows.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    I want to play Pokemon Gold, not its mechanics.
    I want to play Ocarina of Time, not its mechanics
    I want to Play Metal Gear Solid, not its mechanics

    Why is it so hard for people to understand that we like playing games that we grew up with????????
    Because those who want to play it for the mechanics and grew up with the games are also legitimate players?

  5. #185
    Mechagnome Drpizka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Because those who want to play it for the mechanics and grew up with the games are also legitimate players?

    OP says "...or just the mechanics"

    This implies that I would love retail the same as vanilla if it had the vanilla mechanics, which for me is false because I don't like vanilla just for its mechanics.

  6. #186
    vanilla was "balanced" and fun. Not the thempark we have nowadays

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Drpizka View Post
    OP says "...or just the mechanics"

    This implies that I would love retail the same as vanilla if it had the vanilla mechanics, which for me is false because I don't like vanilla just for its mechanics.
    I totally understand. It's just your last sentence seemed to imply that no one understands why you like the content when I see it as not being something that is mutually exclusive, even if the original statement posed by the OP was an 'or' statement.

    I'm just kind of thrown off by why you think no one understands when, IMO, it's just a matter of many people having different opinions about the same games.

    I mean does it mean that if it's not Vanilla and they added more content, you would not like it because it's not what you remembered it to be? I love a Link to the Past, but it's not like I would look at A Link Between Worlds or the Link to the Past DX dungeons as something that was bad because it was not true-to-original. I don't see it being mutually exclusive. IMO, we play those old games for the mechanics just as much as for nostalgia.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by peepthetech View Post
    vanilla was "balanced" and fun. Not the thempark we have nowadays
    This kind of comment makes me chuckle.

    Vanilla was so NOT balanced. And if you look at WoW objectively it was always designed as a theme park. Even back then the "rides" you had in WoW were pretty much:
    1. Dungeons
    2. Raids
    3. Quests
    4. Battlegrounds (they were released in Vanilla)

    Everything else you did was pretty just there to earn yourself the permission to enter the rides. The basic 4 rides still exist in WoW to this day. They've just added new ones and re-designed elements of the 4 basic ones that we had from the start. Even back then WoW was declared a theme-park MMO. The other type which is the sandbox has quite different aspects. EVE Online is a sand box. It has some theme park elements but it mostly is a sandbox.

    Btw. don't get me wrong, I'm not defending BFA in any way. I just find confused comments like the one I quoted really "interesting"...

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    And then they discover it wasn't as hard as they thought or remembered

    - Heal a dungeon without ever drinking or going oom
    - just chainpull everything and never have to cc
    - Shaman tank dungeons
    - Void Walker tank dungeons
    Classic wasn’t difficult at all, just slow. And it was easy compared to other MMOs at the time. Still, millenials are not the ones raised on easy games

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruor View Post
    Really? I'm not trying to shit on you, can you just explain why? leveling as a warrior honestly made me want to cry... I fought through the pain for the fun of being 60 and well geared. I got into beta and quit by like level 10... I didn't like WoW at first. The FIRST time it was ok because it was new and I was exploring, and had a friend to level with. The 2nd time (Warrior again but I wanted to be alliance at my horde friends quit the week I hit 60 and I wanted to be alliance in the first place....) I was in agony. I just fought through the pain for end game content. Level 60 pvp/raiding was a blast. I never made an alt until WOTLK and that was because DK started at 55.
    I actually find grinding a very pleasurable experience in MMO's if the content isn't repetitive. For me it's mostly about exploring areas I didn't before, or do things differently than I did before.

    For Vanilla, the leveling experience is fun because I like the quest system. You do all the quests in the zone, you get rewarded with a dungeon quest which forces you to find a party to complete it. You have to communicate and make an effort to get it done. There isn't just one zone either, there are several starting areas and places you can explore that doesn't really follow the traditional journey. This system is enjoyable to me.

    Then you have questlines like "The Legend of Stalvan" and that quest that sends you to Scarlet Monastery but starts all the way over in Desolace and rewards a weapon that's good for almost 15 levels. I look forward to doing the class quests again, which were immersive. Rogues actually sending you on a quest to learn to lockpick, make poisons, and pickpocket.

    TLDR; I look forward to being in the world again and having to communicate with others. It's something that's been absent in MMO's lately.

  11. #191
    If they would just make wow hard while keeping all of the modern crap it would be a good game. But it's too fuckin easy. Waste of time.

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Escepticus View Post
    Yep. Here is another well known chart (and remember, back then Blizzard did inform of numbers!):

    The amazing thing about this chart how much hype Blizzard was rolling with during the Vanilla-BC release, when BC hit legitimately 60% of the people on my friends list quit and many guilds disbanded and quit because they disliked the direction of the game.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Zafire View Post
    I actually find grinding a very pleasurable experience in MMO's if the content isn't repetitive. For me it's mostly about exploring areas I didn't before, or do things differently than I did before.

    For Vanilla, the leveling experience is fun because I like the quest system. You do all the quests in the zone, you get rewarded with a dungeon quest which forces you to find a party to complete it. You have to communicate and make an effort to get it done. There isn't just one zone either, there are several starting areas and places you can explore that doesn't really follow the traditional journey. This system is enjoyable to me.

    Then you have questlines like "The Legend of Stalvan" and that quest that sends you to Scarlet Monastery but starts all the way over in Desolace and rewards a weapon that's good for almost 15 levels. I look forward to doing the class quests again, which were immersive. Rogues actually sending you on a quest to learn to lockpick, make poisons, and pickpocket.

    TLDR; I look forward to being in the world again and having to communicate with others. It's something that's been absent in MMO's lately.
    If communication is something that you think is solved by forcing it upon people, then you are in for a nasty surprise

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by nodlimax View Post
    This kind of comment makes me chuckle.

    Vanilla was so NOT balanced. And if you look at WoW objectively it was always designed as a theme park. Even back then the "rides" you had in WoW were pretty much:
    1. Dungeons
    2. Raids
    3. Quests
    4. Battlegrounds (they were released in Vanilla)

    Everything else you did was pretty just there to earn yourself the permission to enter the rides. The basic 4 rides still exist in WoW to this day. They've just added new ones and re-designed elements of the 4 basic ones that we had from the start. Even back then WoW was declared a theme-park MMO. The other type which is the sandbox has quite different aspects. EVE Online is a sand box. It has some theme park elements but it mostly is a sandbox.

    Btw. don't get me wrong, I'm not defending BFA in any way. I just find confused comments like the one I quoted really "interesting"...
    balanced was in quotations. People want to discover an unknown world. They don't want to know everything and meta the shit out of it. The word discovery is key here. the unknown.

    Your reply makes me laugh because you miss the point entirely. Get off your donkey

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by peepthetech View Post
    People want to discover an unknown world
    Hrm, but what exactly is unknown about Classic? We know everything about it, down to the nitty gritty exploits that let you clip under Stormwind.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    If communication is something that you think is solved by forcing it upon people, then you are in for a nasty surprise
    I played Final Fantasy XI from 2004 until 2012 with very few breaks for other games. The reason I missed Vanilla is because I was playing FFXI instead of WoW. If you've ever played Final Fantasy XI, it was literally the EPITOME of forced communication. You couldn't even level past 12-13 without five other people to kill monsters with. You could solo very little content, and almost everything required friends. Even in Abyssea, when the game started to get more casual, you still needed 3-4 people to do things efficiently. Hell, you couldn't even break level caps of 50,55,60,65,70,75 (You had to do a quest to break level caps) without getting help from someone because the content was much higher level.

    So no, I'm not in for a surprise.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Zafire View Post
    I actually find grinding a very pleasurable experience in MMO's if the content isn't repetitive. For me it's mostly about exploring areas I didn't before, or do things differently than I did before.

    For Vanilla, the leveling experience is fun because I like the quest system. You do all the quests in the zone, you get rewarded with a dungeon quest which forces you to find a party to complete it. You have to communicate and make an effort to get it done. There isn't just one zone either, there are several starting areas and places you can explore that doesn't really follow the traditional journey. This system is enjoyable to me.

    Then you have questlines like "The Legend of Stalvan" and that quest that sends you to Scarlet Monastery but starts all the way over in Desolace and rewards a weapon that's good for almost 15 levels. I look forward to doing the class quests again, which were immersive. Rogues actually sending you on a quest to learn to lockpick, make poisons, and pickpocket.

    TLDR; I look forward to being in the world again and having to communicate with others. It's something that's been absent in MMO's lately.
    I agree with the idea of what you said. One thing I miss was pvp and knowing the enemy horde and alliance on my team. There was even a horde mage on Laughing Skull (yes I was there before the dumb Leroy thing, and in a better guild than pals...) who I'd work with... he would kill alliance and I'd kill horde so we could farm in peace.. lol. I miss that stuff. But reality is like take the whirl wind axe... it's like several item levels lower than the boss you need to kill... you can barely hit the enemy if you want the axe when the quest is first doable (30 was it?) I dont mind if it takes a group to kill.. But if I cant HIT him because he is too high.. Not fun. Basically I love the idea but not the implementation. As a warrior is just auto attack and miss taunt resist etc. I have to get through the pain for the pleasure of 60 and well geared.

  18. #198
    Just the mechanics for me. If we could take the classes, gear itemization, and dual-spec from Burning Crusade and put them into vanilla I would be in heaven. Most people say then why don't you play Burning Crusade. Well that's because of flying mounts, portal stones in front of instances, and pvp gear. The first 2 killed world PvP in burning crusade and the PvP gear killed raiding for PvPers. Oh and they reduced the raids to 20 man sucked.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Zafire View Post
    I played Final Fantasy XI from 2004 until 2012 with very few breaks for other games. The reason I missed Vanilla is because I was playing FFXI instead of WoW. If you've ever played Final Fantasy XI, it was literally the EPITOME of forced communication. You couldn't even level past 12-13 without five other people to kill monsters with. You could solo very little content, and almost everything required friends. Even in Abyssea, when the game started to get more casual, you still needed 3-4 people to do things efficiently. Hell, you couldn't even break level caps of 50,55,60,65,70,75 (You had to do a quest to break level caps) without getting help from someone because the content was much higher level.

    So no, I'm not in for a surprise.
    So what do you think the majority of people that for whatever reason do not want to be social or communicate did when they hit the solo wall (which btw, is not existent in WoW, neither Retail nor Classic)? Did most overcome their reluctance, did they just stop playing or did people already know and just never started playing the game? Maybe one of the things underlying WoW's success is indeed it's accommodation of the solo player.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by peepthetech View Post
    balanced was in quotations. People want to discover an unknown world. They don't want to know everything and meta the shit out of it. The word discovery is key here. the unknown.

    Your reply makes me laugh because you miss the point entirely. Get off your donkey
    So what's the point of your post then? The current as well as the previous one are both extremely stupid.

    People don't want to meta the shit out of everything? Don't make me even laugh. The Elitistjerks site started back in Vanilla in early 2005 and they went through every mechanic that existed back then to "science" the shit out of it and find the best optimal builds and class approaches. Even back then there were guides related on how much hit chance makes sense for a melee and when you should focus more on crit and AP and so on.

    And Thottbot was a thing as well providing information to most pieces of content. There were pet guides for hunters on where to find them and what abilities they had as well as their attack speed and various other details. Don't act as if Vanilla/Classic is a giant mysterious world. There will be people that will just enjoy the leveling experience and other content but there also are going to be quite a few that will "meta the shit out of everything".

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