View Poll Results: How many hybrids would you raid with if you wanted to clear Naxx in a month or two?

Voters
206. You may not vote on this poll
  • 0-2

    44 21.36%
  • 2-4

    21 10.19%
  • 4-6

    11 5.34%
  • 6-8

    9 4.37%
  • 8-10

    3 1.46%
  • 10-12

    3 1.46%
  • 12-14

    0 0%
  • 15-20

    4 1.94%
  • 20-25

    0 0%
  • 25+

    11 5.34%
  • All I want is good people

    71 34.47%
  • As few as possible, low DPS = longer raids and more farming

    27 13.11%
  • Write-In / Reserved

    2 0.97%
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    0. If you're not willing to play an optimal spec you're not suitable for high end raiding.
    Classic just isn't that hard man. That attitude is more suited to mythic progression on retail.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Naxx can't be cleared in a month. You need months of gearing up in MC/BWL and AQ first.
    The sad part is there are people like yourself that actually think this.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehalbino View Post
    The sad part is there are people like yourself that actually think this.
    You're going to get months of gearing up in MC/BWL/AQ anyway, because of stages and delayed release. So it's a moot point.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Embriel View Post
    Naxx can't be cleared in a month. You need months of gearing up in MC/BWL and AQ first.
    naxx will be released in Phase 6, so you will be forced into months of other raids whether you want to or not. im assuming the OP knew this and was asking about clearing in 1-2 months after P6 releases. top guilds will clear it the first week, if you want to clear it in the first 2 months after p6 you'd be fine with 5ish people playing specs that aren't ideal.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by willemh View Post
    you can drop one dps and thus get twice the loot.
    That's not how math works.
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    Hypothetical Scenario: You're thinking about joining a 15 hour / week raid group with the goal of clearing Naxxramas in a month or two. You look at the roster and say, "Nope, that's too many hybrids." How many did you see?

    (We'll just say everyone has perfect attendance, so raid size = 40. We'll also assume that everyone is friendly and equally skilled, however, optimal specs might get poached more but too many sub-optimal specs might hurt future recruitment.)

    Edit: I noticed the counts were wrong right as I hit post, and polls can't be edited. It should be:
    0-2
    3-4
    5-6
    7-8
    9-10
    11-12
    13-14
    15-20
    21-25
    26+

    Off-specs also count as hybrids, for example Arcane mages, Survival Hunters, Arms Warriors, anyone that isn't one of these 9 specs:

    Prot Warrior
    Fury Warrior
    Holy Pally
    Resto Shaman
    Marksman (?) Hunter
    Combat Swords (or daggers?) Rogue
    Resto Druid
    0/30/21 or whatever the optimal Warlock spec is
    Fire Mage
    Holy Priest

    Based on what I've read I think I'd go with 5 or 6. I could handle a ret paladin, a feral druid, a boomkin, two shadow or disc priests, and maybe the RL's girlfriend that just has to play Arms warrior. But more than 6 I'd probably start looking at server transfers...
    If you were talking about any other raid I'd agree with you but not only did you pick naxx but you gave yourself a time limit of 1-2 months to clear, 1 month and less = 0 hybrids , 2 months = maybe a feral ( shadow priest not included).

    Naxx has high dps threshold requirements in order to kill the boss before enrage timers, most dps can't reach that requirement, by most I mean every hybrid except feral ( with the right build ) but shadow priests ,if you want to consider them as hybrids,will always have 1 slot for the shadow debuff mostly to buff locks.

    From old and very recent experience , MC/BWL are the raids where you can be most flexible with your dps roster, especially if you aren't trying to clear the raid within the first week of availability, AQ that roster diversity narrows down considerably and naxx is the standard " hardcore raiding " that everyone expects it to be, not in the sense of mechanical difficulty compared to recent expansions but the sheer amount of dedication /commitment /time investment to be naxx ready is several times more than a casual player has time for.

    You basically can't raid log for naxx raids , at least not until the majority of the roster is wearing T3 and can basically carry you. Before that a naxx raider has a lot of farming to do between raids and players who have that kind of time usually end up in hardcore raiding guilds, which always run with the most optimal setup for raids , so hybrids in naxx... not so much , maybe as an alt after your guild is wearing T3 but you'd mostly be there for the sightseeing.
    Last edited by wholol; 2019-06-01 at 09:25 AM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    That's absurd. Organizing and executing Four Horsemen or Gothik the Harvester is harder than Kar'gath Bladefist and Champion of the Light. No need for hyperbole. Classic raids aren't hard compared to mythic raids now but you're overstating your case.

    And in three of the difficulties out of four on retail the fights have a bunch of mechanics but most of them do nothing.
    Ehm, no they really are not. Heck, lag was a bigger issue than the actual mechanics back then.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Ehm, no they really are not. Heck, lag was a bigger issue than the actual mechanics back then.
    You're arguing that two bosses (Kargath and Champion of the Light) who don't have any mechanics of note at all that you just walk in and zerg down in a minute or two aren't easier than Four Horsemen and Gothik the Harvester in Naxxramas 40?

    Come on man. One has precise movement of a bunch of different groups of people for 10-15 minutes with little room for error and the other is a zerg where you hit bloodlust and kill the boss. We killed mythic champion of the light on the first pull, the average fight duration is under 2 minutes.

    Lag was definitely an issue on Thaddius, I remember 3 AM Thaddius raids because it was the only time the servers weren't taking a shit.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    You're arguing that two bosses (Kargath and Champion of the Light) who don't have any mechanics of note at all that you just walk in and zerg down in a minute or two aren't easier than Four Horsemen and Gothik the Harvester in Naxxramas 40?

    Come on man. One has precise movement of a bunch of different groups of people for 10-15 minutes with little room for error and the other is a zerg where you hit bloodlust and kill the boss. We killed mythic champion of the light on the first pull, the average fight duration is under 2 minutes.

    Lag was definitely an issue on Thaddius, I remember 3 AM Thaddius raids because it was the only time the servers weren't taking a shit.
    Actually I'd say the average raid would get 4hm down way faster than they would get any boss on at least normal and again, mythic is a whole different game. I'm sure your raid had little issues today but you'd also clear Naxx in a week if you hade the numbers.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Priestiality View Post
    That's not how math works.
    Explain me how it's not how it works? Half the people is twice the loot.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mozu View Post
    You're doing your raid a disservice if you're not providing your warrior/rogues with windfury.
    Or you're alliance

  12. #32
    I somewhat hope that a lot of the "common knowledge" we have will turn out to be inaccurate under the new circumstances (better tools to figure out best ways to play, better server stability, more player experience), but back in the day I think the general opinion was that it was mathimatically impossible to beat the necessary dps as a hybrid in Naxx (and Naxx only).

    So as far as we know it's probably 2-3 to buff/debuff
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  13. #33
    OP is classist. Stop discriminating!

  14. #34
    Raided classic in a guild with a Ret, a Balance Druid, two Hemo Rogues (grats on seeing your debuff pushed off the boss every 2 seconds guys!), a Hunter that was mostly BM and a Warlock with a weird 'tri-spec'. For whatever it's worth, we killed 7 bosses in Naxx but I'm not sure we were ever going to get Gothik down and I honestly couldn't tell you if it was because we were bad (which we were) or if our comp was holding us back.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Actually I'd say the average raid would get 4hm down way faster than they would get any boss on at least normal and again, mythic is a whole different game. I'm sure your raid had little issues today but you'd also clear Naxx in a week if you hade the numbers.
    We're obviously not living in the same reality if you're comparing this:



    with this



    Not sure what else I can say here.

    There are no progression videos for Champion of the Light normal because every guild in existence killed it on the first pull.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Soxoffender View Post
    Raided classic in a guild with a Ret, a Balance Druid, two Hemo Rogues (grats on seeing your debuff pushed off the boss every 2 seconds guys!), a Hunter that was mostly BM and a Warlock with a weird 'tri-spec'. For whatever it's worth, we killed 7 bosses in Naxx but I'm not sure we were ever going to get Gothik down and I honestly couldn't tell you if it was because we were bad (which we were) or if our comp was holding us back.
    That's the thing about classic, since there were no difficulty settings raids had the gamut of bosses for less good guilds and bosses for good guilds. Naxxramas has a number of easy bosses so less good guilds can kill something and some very hard bosses (for classic) as well.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2019-06-01 at 10:23 AM.

  16. #36
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    If you have arrived at naxx and are actually doing progression, than i would raid with as many works. But if we get stuck, as raidleader i would start to clean up the performance of people, finding average dps for different classes in naxx and pushing people below to improve themselves.

    Its not really how many you would allow, its all about what works and does not work. Even if people had optimal specs, if they did poorly, i would put them in the same pool of people, who were doing things un-optimally.

    But that said, if you were in a guild, that wanted to clear naxx in as short as 1-2 months, the attitude would already be ruthless and elitist. There is little room for error if you have that tight of a schedule.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    You look at the roster and say, "Nope, that's too many hybrids." How many did you see?
    Any class that can tank and/or heal is PER DIFINITION a hybrid.

    I'd like to see you do any kind of raiding without less than 10 hybrids.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aggrophobic View Post
    Actually I'd say the average raid would get 4hm down way faster than they would get any boss on at least normal and again, mythic is a whole different game. I'm sure your raid had little issues today but you'd also clear Naxx in a week if you hade the numbers.
    That is true if numbers/skill was the defining factor in "hard" raids. In naxx, you had several bosses who required more than just skills, but also a specific tactic, specific classes out of the normal and even resistance gear.

    From what i have seen in BT and TK in TBC, luck is also a factor more often than not back then, which have been greatly reduced since then.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    From what i have seen in BT and TK in TBC, luck is also a factor more often than not back then, which have been greatly reduced since then.
    Haha you must not have done mythic Jaina.

    "Oh all three ballistas are on fire again and she delayed freezing blast and avalanche for 30 seconds, wipe" (Literally like 50 of my wipes on mythic Jaina)

    "Icefall you can't see decided to spawn close to opposite the raid and your shaman's far sight can't see it because it's slightly offset, half the raid is frozen wipe."

    "Both icefalls spawned on top of the raid in phase 3 and she started a chain of casts where she doesn't move for 10 seconds then does a crystalline dust, guess it's a wipe."

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Haha you must not have done mythic Jaina.

    "Oh all three ballistas are on fire again and she delayed freezing blast and avalanche for 30 seconds, wipe" (Literally like 50 of my wipes on mythic Jaina)

    "Icefall you can't see decided to spawn close to opposite the raid and your shaman's far sight can't see it because it's slightly offset, half the raid is frozen wipe."

    "Both icefalls spawned on top of the raid in phase 3 and she started a chain of casts where she doesn't move for 10 seconds then does a crystalline dust, guess it's a wipe."
    You mention one boss here And Jaina has been notorious for being random with even a few fixes, but there is a reason why she is notorious. The randomness factor have gone down in my opinion over at the entire board.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

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