How many hybrids would you raid with if you wanted to clear Naxx in a month or two?

[schwank05]

It was hard to even get 40 people online to raid most of the time I remember my guild going into raids with 30-35 people and doing just fine. So if you have a max level character and don't suck you should have no issue getting into a raid spot, well other than Tanks only really need 2 of those.

[AeneasBK]

You could get throu in MC and BWL with such low fps values but AQ 40 and Naxx changed that. You could run absolutely perfect ony your screen on Heigan, low fps or a high ping would kill you.

Apart from Kara and Zul'Aman (I started in TBC) I played Holy Paladin with about 3-4 fps up until the Trial of the Crusader raid (or w/e it was called) in Icecrown. You could get away with that *as a holy paladin* most of the time, but in particular, the first fight of TotC against the big Magnataur with snobolds throwing firebombs, you're meant to completely avoid them as they target your feet and travel pretty slowly, but with that framerate I didn't even know they had a representation when in flight I just thought the firepatch "appeared" at your feet and you just had to run out as soon as you saw it so it didn't stack above 1 or 2, then heal through the DoT. I couldn't understand why some people in my raid were getting mad about anyone getting hit by it. Then I upgraded and I realised just how easy they "ought" to be to avoid.

So yeah, crappy systems with low framerates would have artificially magnified the difficulty by several orders in somewhere like Naxx40, I can easily imagine.

[czarek]

In vanilla is more about people. Sometimes is must o have smth like Mortal Strike on boss but its like 2 or maybe 3 specials really needed. Mostly its all about people.

[anon5123]

It's classic. Everything is at LFR levels of difficulty.

There is no "high end raiding" in classic.

Spoken like someone who has never progressed past MC.

Hell, even MC has shit that can wipe you. LFR literally nothing can wipe the raid short of half the raid disconnecting.

[Devilyaki]

Would be best to have at lest two shadows priests for that mind control boss.

[erifwodahs]

Shadow priest is mandatory
Feral/boomy why not for lulz
Rest no go cos they are pointless

Shadow is not mandatory. Holy with shadow up until weaving - potentially, depending on how many warlocks you have. If your roster is mages/rogues/warriors... you can live with that

[msdos]

You can have a shaman in each party and it wouldn't hurt you as long as they were specced into the totems. Even if you have enhance specced into the totems, his main job is to twist improved grace of air and WF, WF has a bit of time before it will fall off weapons, so you can twist, although Enhance has an extremely small mana pool so it may not be viable to twist til later phases.

[Razzako]

It's classic. Everything is at LFR levels of difficulty. Bring whatever.
Then again, why would you play a poorly balanced spec that can't even compete on the meters?

- - - Updated - - -



There is no "high end raiding" in classic.

Let's conveniently forget about Loatheb!

[Rehija]

It's classic. Everything is at LFR levels of difficulty.

Dont forget that classes were also LFR Level. You had a lot of Skills, but most of them were useless in Raids, wich cancels the Raid LFR Level out. No Disengage, Cloak of Shadows and so on. The most "OP Tools" in pvp meant shit in a Raid. Sure, fear beasts was strong in pvp but useless in a raid.

@ Topic

It really depends on the player behind the Hybrid class. For example, we had a Feral Tank in our Raid and he was one of the most valueable players. Made things possible that otherwise simply wouldnt work.

[Gatto]

40 druids for infinite combat ress is the way

[Aggrophobic]

Spoken like someone who has never progressed past MC.

Hell, even MC has shit that can wipe you. LFR literally nothing can wipe the raid short of half the raid disconnecting.

I cleared every raid in vanilla and every raid since exept for the current expansion and a boss here and there druing my time at uni (late TBC, early Warth).
The main challenge was actually getting 40 players to the raid. The bosses were and still are extremely simplistic and easy compared to what we have today.

[Whistl3r]

My experience from vanilla as a raider who was never bleeding edge but cleared a fair bit. On our server IIRC only one horde killed cleared Naxx and the top alliance guild disbanded out of frustration doing Saph.
Our guild was probably about 7th in server progress and we cleared Twin Emps in AQ and 8-10 bosses in Naxx. Our guild had a feral and oomkin druid, a ret pally 4 DPS warriors (2fury 2arms) a shadow priest and a BM hunter that I can clearly remember the names of. Our biggest issues were losing tanks to the guilds above us doing 4HM and that really slowed us down. Given a bit more time we would of cleared everything and it would've been really cool to have done it with the same people more or less that we entered MC with.
Having the perfect raid comp isn't necessary, having 40 great players isn't a must. You just need a solid 15-20, a good raid leader(s) and enough time, which wont be a problem in classic at all. Some fights were much harder than current LFR or even normal and anyone saying they're not is just a troll or probably never actually cleared the stuff they claim to have done in vanilla. Private servers in no way count and should never be included in opinions. Stop being dicks and enjoy classic for what it is and how its intended; a chance to revisit a classic piece of gaming history. Leave the elitist bullshit at the door, nobody cares if you find 39 dickheads and steamroller the content and get bored the moment you've done so. You're standing on the shoulders of giants as these achievements have all been done 100s of times before.

[Lollis]

People saying zero have no idea how useful Oomkins and Shadowpriests actually were by the time 1.12 came out.

[Mirain1]

I cleared every raid in vanilla and every raid since exept for the current expansion and a boss here and there druing my time at uni (late TBC, early Warth).
The main challenge was actually getting 40 players to the raid. The bosses were and still are extremely simplistic and easy compared to what we have today.

Yeah sure you did. And you even dare to claim that naxx and even AQ are equal to LFR difficulty.

[Unholyground]

I will be raiding Enhancement on my Shaman and will have a healing set just in case and the guild will take me because I am hilarious.

[Aggrophobic]

Yeah sure you did. And you even dare to claim that naxx and even AQ are equal to LFR difficulty.

Like you even have a clue about them anyway.
Oh, look what I did.

But yes, most bosses are at LFR levels. A few here and there might actually be harder but not by much and that usually due to technical issues such as lag or the fact that the bosses were poorly balanced leading to you needing very specific gear but hardly any actual skill to kill them.

Now run along, the grown ups are talking.

[Mirain1]

Like you even have a clue about them anyway.
Oh, look what I did.

But yes, most bosses are at LFR levels. A few here and there might actually be harder but not by much and that usually due to technical issues such as lag or the fact that the bosses were poorly balanced leading to you needing very specific gear but hardly any actual skill to kill them.

Now run along, the grown ups are talking.

Grown ups, right...
Keep underestimating the difficulty of naxx. I'm not saying that naxx is easier than Mythic or (maybe) even heroic, but you have no clue if you think that LFR even comes close to anything. Heck, it's easier than doing RFC at level 25. You could let 25 toddlers roll their faces over a keyboard and they'd clear every LFR raid.

That being said, nobody really cares how hard vanilla or retail is. The difficulty doesn't necessarily make one game better. A clear example is mythic raiding. Sure it's way harder than anything vanilla has to offer, but that doesn't make it more fun to play.

[Michh]

i didn’t start till Wrath, and I am going to play Classic and plan on raiding as much as I can. I’ve raided mythic for several years on my Warrior as DPS, but lately I’ve been playing Shadow/Holy Priest and really like it. During the stress test I played both Warrior and Priest, and I’m really considering going Priest at Classic launch.

Question; what exactly is meant here when you all say hybrids aren’t desirable? If at all possible, I plan on being fairly hardcore about raiding and do not want to be hamstrung by the class I play.

Some here will say play what you like and don’t worry. But if someone doesn’t mind explaining the OPs point about how many of this class or that class would you like in your raid, I’d appreciate it.

[Weeps]

Many people are confused as to what made classic raiding difficult.

It wasn't entirely the mechanics, it did play a part in the later end of the game.

What made classic hard was being geared appropriately for the fight.

Tanks had to gear to be as uncrushable as possible.
People had to gear for survival (fire resist, nature resist, etc)

It wasn't really the mechanics that screwed you in places like Molten Core. It was being inadequately geared.

[Ragnarohk]

Hypothetical Scenario: You're thinking about joining a 15 hour / week raid group with the goal of clearing Naxxramas a month or two after P6 drops. You look at the roster and say, "Nope, that's too many hybrids." How many did you see?

(We'll just say everyone has perfect attendance, so raid size = 40. We'll also assume that everyone is friendly and equally skilled, however, optimal specs might get poached more but too many sub-optimal specs might hurt future recruitment.)

Edit: I noticed the counts were wrong right as I hit post, and polls can't be edited. It should be:
0-2
3-4
5-6
7-8
9-10
11-12
13-14
15-20
21-25
26+

Off-specs also count as hybrids, for example Arcane mages, Survival Hunters, Arms Warriors, anyone that isn't one of these 9 specs:

Prot Warrior
Fury Warrior
Holy Pally
Resto Shaman
Marksman (?) Hunter
Combat Swords (or daggers?) Rogue
Resto Druid
0/30/21 or whatever the optimal Warlock spec is
Fire Mage
Holy Priest

Based on what I've read I think I'd go with 5 or 6. I could handle a ret paladin, a feral druid, a boomkin, two shadow or disc priests, and maybe the RL's girlfriend that just has to play Arms warrior. But more than 6 I'd probably start looking at server transfers...

Slightly off-topic.
But what.... 15 hours/week?
This isn't retail. As somebody else mentioned, bosses were tuned at LFR difficulty in vanilla. It's all just a giant gearcheck without any depth or complexity.

With the skill and knowledge current players have you can probably clear the raids with most people having a "suboptimal/un viable" build or spec.