What if N'zoth dies? [8.2 Spoilers]

[ohwell]

G'huun can give his followers the power to raise undead minions, and he's a kid compared to the big four. I really don't see why or how it would so hard for the Old Gods to control undead when they can directly influence beings made of stone.

Because it's established lore.....

[Aucald]

This thread is not about the events of "A Good War" or the fight between Malfurion and Sylvanas. Let's pivot back to the original topic.

[Jastall]

Because it's established lore.....

Established where? I'm not saying "well based on X our theory is" I mean where is it explicitly said undead are no bueno for Old Gods and immune to their influence in every way?

[Terongor]

"A Good War" literally has Slyvanus admitting to Saurfang that Malfurion's defeat would not have been possible without Saurfang's sneak attack.



Malfurion >>>>> Slyvanus

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She's so cunning she didn't expect a dreadlord would deceive her or an undead Gilnean would betray and one shot her. Ah yes, she is so cunning, she wanted to drive a wedge between the Alliance but instead drove a wedge between the Horde and she is now losing on all fronts in the War she started. LMAO!

All make mistakes also had saurfang done his duty she would have succeeded. Also it was for it time heavily imblied from sylv pov vari had broken nathrezim rule and killed balnazzar which would have made him a traitor to legion so mistake yeah but a logical one.

Also Arthas was so cunning he thought sylvanas was loyal after she had free will or he was cunninh when not listening to ner'zhuls call to northrend immediatly or so cunning when thinking he can beat tirion when ner'zhul had seem vision ashbringer breaking frostmourne( he had all of ner'zhuls memories then). So being 100 times cunning than arthas isn't much though most chars are idiots.

[ohwell]

Established where? I'm not saying "well based on X our theory is" I mean where is it explicitly said undead are no bueno for Old Gods and immune to their influence in every way?

Chronicle as well as WotLK itself. They had a faceless one pretty much enslaved and Yogg was pissed since he couldn't do anything about it.

[Combatbutler]

So, we know through datamined text that Lor'themar says that Nzoth will rise. For a moment, let's pretend that's a misdirection.

What if, at the very end of Azshara's Eternal Palace, someone Sylvanas actually ends up putting an end to Nzoth before he can even pop up fully on the surface?

What then?

Simple it will not happen and even if it does happen by some miracle ,nothing worthwhile will come from it just like the rest of the xpack.

[Jastall]

Chronicle as well as WotLK itself. They had a faceless one pretty much enslaved and Yogg was pissed since he couldn't do anything about it.

That means nothing other than Arthas himself (maybe) being able to ward off the Old Gods, which might be an anomaly given that he was the most powerful death entity we saw and his minions did not have a will to be subverted save for the very upper echelon such as Kel'thuzad or the Death Knights. That's hardly establishing that undeath in all its forms is anathema to the OGs and that they can't control it, when in-game evidence suggests otherwise as G'huun makes use of undead and raises a powerful one (Zul) himself.

[Eazy]

Um, you do realize that Sylvanas was picking apart Saurfang there? Pointing out how his hands were bloody? For someone who usually reads into context here you leaped pretty far to ignore it in that passage.

The funny thing is that, yeah, I do - I completely understood that. But saying that Sylvanas overpowered Malfurion is just wrong. As I wrote above, there are no any indications that prove that.

-snip-

We're just going round in circles right now...

Infracted.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Imagine writing all that and not making a single point. Work on your conciseness mate

The point was already made, in that as usual you try to bend the story to suit what you want while decrying it when it goes against your opinions.

[Zandalariprelate]

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Yeah I know about the farewall mission where Sylvanas used an arrow to paralyse a weakened Arthas but the quote of Alucald:

She established this early on by holding her own with Death Knight Arthas accompanied by Frostmourne and nearly killing him

I though that was refering some new event or retcon where she fought him equally in Quel'thalas or when she broke free, the ambush itself I won't call exactly a fight or anyone holding the ground(besides Arthas dk at his peak is likely more powerful than KT and he made Sylvanas and her survivor banshees to flee)

I don't doubt Sylvanas will fail, especially if she is opposed by both the Horde and Alliance (as well as all life on Azeroth). As I said before, she's far more powerful than a banshee or even a banshee hero or champion, but she's neither invulnerable nor is she a demigod. She wouldn't be easy to take out but there are a variety of beings within the Warcraft universe against which she is no match - both singularly or collectively.

Sure I don't disagree with her power levels that are above the average special unit undead, and like many alliance/horde leaders, they have plot armor and are hard to catch like a weasel but the point is, her role into N'zoth fight is likely something that he has already planned, maybe he just fakes his death like Batman does in the Arkham games, so he can play in the shadows once again or maybe that is the end game for Sylvanas after BFA

In the novels kael'thas dominated the fight and arthas only managed to get a lucky shot with the trick muradin taught him. Arthas couldn't even get a one shot before that and even tried to provoke Kael'thas to make him sloppy and even that failed. Arthas as a death knight was inferior to uther in all other way expect his speed. Also yeah Arthas won Illidan put he only managed to win with that one lucky strike he managed to do because illidan made a stupid move and went to air.

Arthas didn't even manage finish Kael'thas. From these we can see Arthas was losing against three of his major opponents and won because not his skill or power but because of his speed, cheap dwarven trick and illidan being more stupid, so he is greatest strenght is cunning in his battles and sylvanas is easily more cunning than Arthas DK.

Artahs broke his staff first and even with the new reforged sword, he was not a match for Arthas, he lost plain and simple and the sword frostmourne is ten times more OP which is the real reason Arthas won all of those fights

As for Arthas' duel with Kerrilldank, he won because the Lich King reinvigorated him prior to the fight and Kerrilldank was fighting like a complete moron, wasting time on boasting, monologuing about his weapons and performing flashy moves, which included him going in for the final strike in the most flashy way possible when Arthas wasn't disarmed yet.

The fallen blades mentions the fight was equally matched but luck and skill helped Arthas to win, the whole book of Golden is pure trash just like all the forsakens miss their roots in humanity(or they human potential), the war in Cataclysm never happened and Jaina was a saint with both her aggresive expansion in the barrens(Baine says Jaina and the alliance did nothing wrong and there is not a war) and the purge of Dalaran(Warcrimes)

[Darth-Piekus]

Seems that some people will never learn no matter how many years pass, no matter how many losses they suffer. They will keep living in their own distorted fantasy where they are right and everyone else will be wrong. Anyway. I apologise for trying to bring up undisputed facts that hurt some individuals. This is why I rarely write here anymore in this mess of a Lore forum.

I don't see why is it so hard to accept that the Book is based on the Game. Blizzard decides how Christie Golden would write the book. It would be obvious the outcome would be the same.

[Combatbutler]

I don't see why is it so hard to accept that the Book is based on the Game. Blizzard decides how Christie Golden would write the book. It would be obvious the outcome would be the same.

A draw, that is the outcome, both sides arguing for Malfurion or Sylvanas are wrong from the way I see it. These two engaged many times throughout the assault and each time failed to kill each other.

Infracted.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Seems that some people will never learn no matter how many years pass, no matter how many losses they suffer. They will keep living in their own distorted fantasy where they are right and everyone else will be wrong. Anyway. I apologise for trying to bring up undisputed facts that hurt some individuals. This is why I rarely write here anymore in this mess of a Lore forum.

I don't see why is it so hard to accept that the Book is based on the Game. Blizzard decides how Christie Golden would write the book. It would be obvious the outcome would be the same.

There is an irony here so tangible surely even you don't fail to notice it.

[Darth-Piekus]

A draw, that is the outcome, both sides arguing for Malfurion or Sylvanas are wrong from the way I see it. These two engaged many times throughout the assault and each time failed to kill each other.

Technically the outcome is that Malfurion lived thanks to Elune if we want to be precise and Saurfang is the one who technically beat Malfurion. However both he and Saurfang at the moment are here to stay. For Sylvannas I'm not so sure. Back on that topic have in mind that all the time Malfurion was stalling for time. Only in the last battle he decided to end it for good. Both the game and the book agree that it would be the end of Sylvannas had Saurfang not arrived on time. In any case I do not wish to continue established lore so this topic for me ends here.

Infracted.

[MrLachyG]

wasn't there some sort of prophecy about 5 torches and 5 keys? I know someone speculated that the 5 torches could be the 5 world trees (Nordrassil, Teldrassil, Andrassil/Vordrassil, Shaladrassil and a tree in the Emerald Dream)

if those 5 trees are destroyed maybe something happens? Nordrassil has been destroyed once before but has since regrown, Teldrassil has been burned down, Andrassil has been corrupted as has Shaladrassil so I am guessing that the tree in the ED might be the last one standing? what happens when it falls?

will that release the Old Gods? or have anything to do with them?

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

wasn't there some sort of prophecy about 5 torches and 5 keys? I know someone speculated that the 5 torches could be the 5 world trees (Nordrassil, Teldrassil, Andrassil/Vordrassil, Shaladrassil and a tree in the Emerald Dream)

if those 5 trees are destroyed maybe something happens? Nordrassil has been destroyed once before but has since regrown, Teldrassil has been burned down, Andrassil has been corrupted as has Shaladrassil so I am guessing that the tree in the ED might be the last one standing? what happens when it falls?

will that release the Old Gods? or have anything to do with them?

I doubt the trees are that important, considering how easy was for Yogg to corrupt Vordrassil to the point it was far better to put it down than keeping it.

[Sarrgoth]

That would be a fucking mess of lore. Old gods have always been defeated by an army/ large raid. That’s how much of a strong forces they are.

No way a single “BANSHEE” lets make it clear Sylvanas is not some unique undead. Power wise a Lich would wipe the floor with her. Beside how would she stop N’zoth? With the blade he wants her to have in order to corrupt her?

Don't try to make sense of Sylvanas Sue. She is an abhorrent mess post WOTLK.

[Florena]

It would be a giant waste to build N'zoth up since CATACLYSM only to kill him off off screen before his day in the sun.