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  1. #321
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Oh you mean the best dps of vanilla with fire and frost mages casting one spell or in tbc warlock shadow bolt spam so much simpler classes now as its 4 buttons on average combat.

    It was so hard spamming sunder armor the classes were so complex.
    You should watch some of the preach classic gameplay videos. Becouse thougt process he have during combat and things he do shows you are completly and utterly wrong.

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Greengrim View Post
    I'm almost sure that you have only heard stories of Vanilla and TBC. Either that, or you were just too young to remember. The complexity of earlier raids did not come from playing your char, although gameplay was times more complicated than it is now, having to have multiple ranks of same spell on your bars, etc. The high difficulty of oldschool raids was coming from the fact you had to bunch up 40 people who actually had half a brain and then manage then around the instances and between raid sessions. The raid preparation for individuals was also insanely difficult too: there was no fatboss back in the day; you had to farm runes, shards, oils apart from the flask and foodbuff; you had to get attunements so you could even enter the raid instances; for some of them you also needed specific elemental resistance gear. Now imagine this - people had to do all these stuff when WoW was brand new. Things were not burnt into their brains as they are now when the years of experience have passed. It was all new and unknown, complicated for many individuals.
    Yeah I know the preparations were the hardest part and that because it was new but that still doesn't excuse of it in anyway. also having it max 3 different ranks of spells and down ranking spells came mostly into play with healers, but the raids itself were much simple mc and bwl neeeded for you to have fire resistance AQ both needed nature resistance and naxx needed frost resistance and the pieces you needed were much rarer and harder to find but mechanics wise it was simple as it had few mechanics mostly boss hits hard or having dance like heigans dance(dodging the plague) which was only hard because it suprised peole and lagging internet and hard part came from having to keeping aggro on tanks and keeping yourself from going OOM which is the reason for down ranking.

    Most of collecting parts weren't hard as time consuming isn't hard its just time consuming.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    You should watch some of the preach classic gameplay videos. Becouse thougt process he have during combat and things he do shows you are completly and utterly wrong.
    You should actually watch some classic gameplay from 2006 from tank pov from raids and see how they only use sunder armor and here and preaches 100% legitimate analyse of warrior https://youtu.be/74fmTBRTnDg?t=245 "preach sunder for the entire game until burning crusade 4:50". As it was low level dungeons or questing they don't matter on long run as only thing which truly matters is the end game which is in this case either raiding or pvp as you easily be max level in under a month.

  3. #323
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Yeah I know the preparations were the hardest part and that because it was new but that still doesn't excuse of it in anyway. also having it max 3 different ranks of spells and down ranking spells came mostly into play with healers, but the raids itself were much simple mc and bwl neeeded for you to have fire resistance AQ both needed nature resistance and naxx needed frost resistance and the pieces you needed were much rarer and harder to find but mechanics wise it was simple as it had few mechanics mostly boss hits hard or having dance like heigans dance(dodging the plague) which was only hard because it suprised peole and lagging internet and hard part came from having to keeping aggro on tanks and keeping yourself from going OOM which is the reason for down ranking.

    Most of collecting parts weren't hard as time consuming isn't hard its just time consuming.
    While tank and spank was real like for 75% of bosses in raids, it's not true that "all vanilla raid content was super easy". And it will be still challenging enough to keep many not-cutting edge guilds from just rushing-no-problem through it.

    And with whole logistic issues.. Well, in vanilla just about 2-5% of people were active raiders. Maybe it wont be too far off in Classic.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    small nitpick monks arent hero class:>

    Oh I know, I just wanted to somehow highlight they were a class added with an expansion release like the other two lol my bad xD

  5. #325
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    While tank and spank was real like for 75% of bosses in raids, it's not true that "all vanilla raid content was super easy". And it will be still challenging enough to keep many not-cutting edge guilds from just rushing-no-problem through it.

    And with whole logistic issues.. Well, in vanilla just about 2-5% of people were active raiders. Maybe it wont be too far off in Classic.
    It remains to be seen as we have wait till classic releases and see how many guild finish the raids and how fast like in a month after the progression and then compare it some like of CoC m 2 boss raid.

  6. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    It remains to be seen as we have wait till classic releases and see how many guild finish the raids and how fast like in a month after the progression and then compare it some like of CoC m 2 boss raid.
    I would be actually more interested to see, how many people will be able to finish AQ or Naxx

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Modern WoW made certain part super hard and relevant but also made the rest super easy and irrelevant. Levelling used to be a part of the game. Now it's just an obstacle. As a casual I would enjoy vanilla's way more because back then you did not really feel like you were pushed toward one true content at the end game. I used to stop levelling and dicked around for like a month before I started levelling again.
    This. To get to the challenging stuff you have to slog through a mountain of boring faceroll. I've tried to get friends into the game recently and they can't endure the sheer boredom they face on the road to do doing the challenging stuff.

    Modern WoW can't figure out if wants to be an e-sport or an RPG.

  8. #328
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    I would be actually more interested to see, how many people will be able to finish AQ or Naxx
    I'm actually pretty interested in how many guilds will actually finish naxx40 as naxx was pretty short because of the release of tbc and many guild were still progressing in AQ40 because of gear and all that stuff. So by this time we will see its true difficulty compared to others as naxx25 or naxx10 was in no way comparable.

  9. #329
    Not really, the problem with current WoW is that the game is brainless, and you burn through everything too quick because it is easy.

    When you quest you aren't required to think. The game tells you where to go, what to do. The mobs pose no threat, it becomes annoying when they don't die quick enough. Your abilities light up to tell you to press it, you can get by without reading your spell abilities. You burn through tons of quests. It's unusual to die.

    You can obtain gear far too easily for such minimal effort, and lots of it.

    LFR difficulty requires no tactical awareness just hit the boss. Normal mode not much better.

    Early dungeon levels are too easy.

    End game players are fed up because the classes have been dumbed down, and the raids have boring mechanics compared to previous expansions.

    In Classic WoW you have to put effort into the game. The slower paced leveling is unironically more enjoyable than current WoW because you can't just burn your way through it not paying attention to anything, same with the dungeons you have to pay attention, and since gear is more scarce it becomes more valuable and rewarding to obtain.

    Classic WoW is not without its flaws yes, but it will keep people engaged for far longer than modern WoW.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    The pace of gating is much different on private servers. The ease of getting lotus for alchemy, zone/raid wide buff timers weren't right, respawns on rare/wb are faster on private servers. Leveling quickly is one thing. Being able to gather up the matterials you need and get the raid drops you need to do certain bosses is going to be a bigger wall than it is on private servers. Will some move faster and with greater ease, absolute. Most will hit certain quagmires in the game and slow down. All will hit things like farming onyxia scales for several weeks to move forward.
    i remember it took 9months for my piece from onyxia to drop for the hunterbow quest
    goodluck rushing things like that

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by Terongor View Post
    Yeah I know the preparations were the hardest part and that because it was new but that still doesn't excuse of it in anyway. also having it max 3 different ranks of spells and down ranking spells came mostly into play with healers, but the raids itself were much simple mc and bwl neeeded for you to have fire resistance AQ both needed nature resistance and naxx needed frost resistance and the pieces you needed were much rarer and harder to find but mechanics wise it was simple as it had few mechanics mostly boss hits hard or having dance like heigans dance(dodging the plague) which was only hard because it suprised peole and lagging internet and hard part came from having to keeping aggro on tanks and keeping yourself from going OOM which is the reason for down ranking.

    Most of collecting parts weren't hard as time consuming isn't hard its just time consuming.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You should actually watch some classic gameplay from 2006 from tank pov from raids and see how they only use sunder armor and here and preaches 100% legitimate analyse of warrior https://youtu.be/74fmTBRTnDg?t=245 "preach sunder for the entire game until burning crusade 4:50". As it was low level dungeons or questing they don't matter on long run as only thing which truly matters is the end game which is in this case either raiding or pvp as you easily be max level in under a month.
    I am not gonna watch 2006 gameplay when between 2006 and 2019 there is 13 years of vannila theoricrafting what made even most useless specs like balance druid relevant. When i was level8ng my mage in TBC i was ooming like crazy becouse i was noob. When i levek now i can chain pull 10 mobs befor o need to rest becouse i got much better in mana and abillity managment. Which for me is far more complex than spamin 4-5 buttons. It is just muscle memory. You dont have thong about it at all. But in classic you work with limited resources and it forces you to be constantly engaged and thinking about yourgameplat. I am gonna play resto shaman when classic launches. When you heal you have to be carefull with your mana. This forces you to manage different ranks of spell to be more efficient, not overheal and go oom.

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    I am not gonna watch 2006 gameplay when between 2006 and 2019 there is 13 years of vannila theoricrafting what made even most useless specs like balance druid relevant. When i was level8ng my mage in TBC i was ooming like crazy becouse i was noob. When i levek now i can chain pull 10 mobs befor o need to rest becouse i got much better in mana and abillity managment. Which for me is far more complex than spamin 4-5 buttons. It is just muscle memory. You dont have thong about it at all. But in classic you work with limited resources and it forces you to be constantly engaged and thinking about yourgameplat. I am gonna play resto shaman when classic launches. When you heal you have to be carefull with your mana. This forces you to manage different ranks of spell to be more efficient, not overheal and go oom.
    As anyone becomes more experienced yeah it becomes more easier and nobody used max level ranks from healers just heals from lvl 30-40 and shit tons heal + equipments also casting heals back to back consumed too much mana and abusing the 5 sec rule.

    Your example balance druid works only if you use full set of scholo dungeon gear and if you lost the set effect you would be useless so no real power progress for them in raids so why would you bother? Theorycrafting most found set that made some specss playble but didn't change any major rotation. So no.

  13. #333
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    Why is this too hard to understand for people?

    Is retail too hardcore? Yes
    Is retail too casual? Yes

    Modern wow is servicing casual players and hardcore players at the same time.
    Yet it seems it's not servicing the people who want a reasonable difficulty all the time in all levels of content. Who want reasonable complexity without being overcomplicated. People who want moderately engaging gameplay not faceroll or ADHD.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    A false statement I think. Normal & heroic difficulty are for people who want moderate difficulty.

    You can literally find any difficulty you like. Mythic+ also caters all difficulties. You can choose any level you find comfortable and go with it.
    No, not a false statement. Levelling is zero challenge. Normal and Heroic dungeons are zero challenge. All world content is zero challenge. I'm not interested in retail raiding. M0 at launch was about right. I'm not interested in pushing high M+.

    I don't want to have to go looking for anything. I want everything to be the difficulty I like. Modern WoW does not cater for this.

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    A false statement I think. Normal & heroic difficulty are for people who want moderate difficulty.

    You can literally find any difficulty you like. Mythic+ also caters all difficulties. You can choose any level you find comfortable and go with it.
    You know wow used to be more than just raids right? And you can get heroic level loot by just facerolling world q now so noth normal and heroic raids are absolote.

    It really blows my mind how mobs in the world can be so weak. It ia like mob casting spell on your location. It takes them like 4-5 sec so even braindead can avoid it and when it hits you it is like for 5% of your total health. It is sooo boring.
    Last edited by Elias01; 2019-06-14 at 02:54 PM.

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by Gavll View Post
    No, not a false statement. Levelling is zero challenge. Normal and Heroic dungeons are zero challenge. All world content is zero challenge. I'm not interested in retail raiding. M0 at launch was about right. I'm not interested in pushing high M+.

    I don't want to have to go looking for anything. I want everything to be the difficulty I like. Modern WoW does not cater for this.
    Here's the thing Levelling, normal and heroic dungeons (outside of Cata where it made people flee the game at WoD levels), world contents have always been zero challenge. Expecting challenge in Classic is like playing anything civ on chieften difficulty and expect competent enemies.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    Here's the thing Levelling, normal and heroic dungeons (outside of Cata where it made people flee the game at WoD levels), world contents have always been zero challenge. Expecting challenge in Classic is like playing anything civ on chieften difficulty and expect competent enemies.
    That's total bollocks as evidenced by mythic raiders like Preach wiping in Scarlet Monastery. People dying to 2 mobs while questing. I presume you never died once in Vanilla? Sure you can pull one mob at a time and play it safe but you're still gonna fuck up and die in a way that just can't happen in retail. I've played on PServers for 4 years. I know what to expect.

  18. #338
    Its to much stress and egoism. Few people just help someone or go out of their way for 5 minutes for anything

  19. #339
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    You have to realise _why_ they keep pushing mythic+ and making raids unattainable for casuals (normal raids being so useless that no 'normal' chill guild exists). The entire game is built around being able to buy 30d gamecards and selling them on the AH for gold, to get boosted in said mythics+raids. And for the high end players to get some consumables. They keep the casual, or even all, of the audience busy with addiction-pushing systems like timed worldquests/invasions (ALWAYS something to do, like 1 more turn in civilization) while dangling the ez boost carrot. Problem with something? just buy a gamecard and sell on the AH, ez gold. Making it 'legal' means everyone does it now.

    For all the rage about Diablo mobile, people don't even realise BFA already is one in essence.

    I fully expect this sub-for-gold system to be introduced around Diremaul release in classic, with Diremaul north even being killed and made impossible as a solofarm, so people will, also in classic, buy gametime to sell on the AH to get them some gold. Blizzard will not give this extremely lucrative business up should classic grow large enough.

    The way this will be introduced will be with a lot of bullshit 'player convinience, we aren't changing anything about classic itself!". But gamecards for AH will come to classic and will ruin it in the end, making it another boosting fiesta. Imagine people needing so many flasks on naxx release, you really think ActivisionBlizzard won't have a goldbuying option by then?

  20. #340
    I feel it's been getting less hardcore over the years. The mechanics, bar a few unique ones, are always just stay out of fire, dodge something that will 1 shot you, and kill the boss before they enrage.

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