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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    You only "need" to grind AP if you're pushing for world firsts. If not, then it's not necessary.
    Yeah, but look at the OPs signature. "Multi gladiator. former top 20 raider, currently in top 50 guild"

    Apparently he seems to think that the majority of the game, or even the majority of mythic raiders, have the same restrictions that he has to deal with. The amount of CE guilds that don't have anything but bare basic Azerite neck requirements far outweigh the ones that do. And even the ones that do will probably just, at most, prioritize Azerite armors to those who have the levels. Do IE every week, you'll literally be where you need to be for the traits.

    So hey OP, why don't you just find a guild that doesn't make everything seem too easy, or places restrictions on you so you feel forced to play the game the way a group of people dictates to you? No one is interested in making raiding balanced around you. You're literally a hardcore raider complaining about raiding being hardcore, and then giving ways to make it harder lol
    Last edited by La; 2019-06-05 at 05:51 AM.
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by jiih View Post
    nobody forces you to raid anything. i could be easy in a top50 world guild but its not worth the effort/time consume so i just dont raid under these circumstances then?
    You're right. Nobody forces you to do anything (within legal boundaries). You're also not forced to pay your taxes, but there are of course consequences if you don't

    In my opinion, grinding Island Expeditions shouldn't be an impactful factor to stay competitive as a top guild. In BOD it was. I'm not saying the game should be designed for the top 1 % players but there is no need to design it against them.

    Also, Island Expeditions as content are in general an insult to the players.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    You're right. Nobody forces you to do anything (within legal boundaries). You're also not forced to pay your taxes, but there are of course consequences if you don't

    In my opinion, grinding Island Expeditions shouldn't be an impactful factor to stay competitive as a top guild. In BOD it was. I'm not saying the game should be designed for the top 1 % players but there is no need to design it against them.

    Also, Island Expeditions as content are in general an insult to the players.
    no the playerbase insults themself. island expeditions are the biggest garbage i have ever seen in a mmorpg so just dont do it. aslong people do it even after cap for achievements or whatever but dont enjoy it thats simply addiction.

    game is entertainement for your free time but who does things in his freetime that they dont enjoy?! addicts
    Last edited by jiih; 2019-06-05 at 11:12 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by jiih View Post
    no the playerbase insults themself. island expeditions are the biggest garbage i have ever seen in a mmorpg so just dont do it. aslong people do it even after cap for achievements or whatever but dont enjoy it thats simply addiction.

    game is entertainement for your free time but who does things in his freetime that they dont enjoy?! addicts
    Island Expeditions are garbage. I tried them and haven't done one since.

    I think Blizzard have some responsibilities toward their fans. Like when you go to a good restaurant you are allowed to expect good food.

  5. #85
    Where are these people suddenly coming from?
    You have 4 raid difficulties. Just stick with one that suits you best.

  6. #86
    LFR, LFR, LFR - I can hear the chant starting up.

  7. #87
    I'm 9/9 mythic since the middle of April and there were no hardcore requirements for killing Jaina. 2/7 raid time. No Ap grind needed just played the game regularly, the most raid didn't have max traits opened. Only a few people have mythic ready alt.

    It's not about it being hardcore and must have everything ready and farm everything to max level. Those few lvls on the neck don't help you. All you have to do is just be good players and do the best what you can in your raid time. Quality of your raid is more important than how many raid days you have.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    The most inaccessible raiding content is mythic content... and it's mostly because it's server-only and raidID lockouts. I'd be happier if mythic was treated like heroic/normal raiding, where you could pug immediately and not get screwed if you enter an in-progress mythic raid only to get locked out from doing the raid all week (at one point, Blizz even allowed you to enter an in-progress raid and not get saved if you didn't kill a boss... but that was too nice I guess?).

    The biggest hurdle for mythic raiding or building a mythic raiding guild is having a competent and reliable roster. With how the server system is, the chance of being a successful full-clear mythic raid becomes exponentially harder if you are not on the very few high/full population servers. Even when the system goes cross realm, you can't even help friends out who are trying to mythic raid because of raidID lockouts instead of loot lockouts, requiring multiple alts to even help friends out. It also sucks for trialing, as you can basically only trial one guild a week max, and if you are currently in a mythic raiding guild trying to trial a different one, you have to screw over your current guild to even trial. It's basically a hot mess from this standpoint.

    Every time this gets brought up, all I see Blizz reps say is "Server identity!", but I think we're at the point where that doesn't matter in WoW anymore to where it's more of a hassle than a quality of life thing. Blizz could keep their Hall of Fame and even make the guild achievements guild-only while allowing cross-realm mythic immediately and changing the mythic raid lockout system, thus artificially keeping the "server identity" while simultaneously allowing mythic raiding to be more accessible to more people. Heck, the tech even exists still to make that happen, but Blizz has been super stubborn about this.

    However, whenever I see the cost of how much it is to server/faction transfer, I increasingly think that's a prime motivator in keeping the status quo of mythic raiding.
    The system is in place to promote the creation of guilds and long lasting social connections. The worst thing that could happen to wow is enabling cross-realm mythic and lockouts like heroic. We have enough games on the market where you just "click-to-play" and get paired with random other people that you don't give a damn about. Wow is not really a good genre for this, as the game mechanics on their own aren't very entertaining and challenging.

    Look how dead the heroic pugging scene is and how little joy people find in pugging. Raiding guilds promote social bonding and personal development. Guild mates will give you credit for stepping up and doing the thing that doesn't necessarily put you on top of the meters, but helps your group kill the boss. This is contrary to pugs where nobody gives a damn about anything but their own loot or parses, and where most people lack knowledge and understanding of the complexities in the game, because you are not required to develop such knowledge. The usual method for killing bosses in pugs is just to replace the lowest dps after a wipe, completely oblivious of the fact, that the boss is easily killable with 20 item levels lower on every player in the group. There should be even more incentives to be in a stable guild, not fewer.

    The cost of server/faction transfers stops people from taking the easy way out, just guild hopping over the tiniest obstacle in their way. One of the lessons that can be learned from wow is overcoming obstacles together. It shouldn't be a individualistic game about climbing the ladder by screwing over and disappointing other people.
    Last edited by Lyaira; 2019-06-05 at 12:31 PM.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Not at the start of each major patch whenever they do something like this.

    Any semi-decent player will farm their neck up to whatever its needed for the next tier.

    In Legion it was to unlock the 10%/10% for Nighthold, then it was the secondary wheel that had OP traits later in the game, etc.

    At the start of BFA it was exactly the same, there were many guilds facing the problem of a few people had unlocked all their traits with the defensive included and they would take up to 30% less damage during some big AoE, where someone else would die, because they didnt have Resounding Protection x2 for 25k more shield, and a Gemhide for 10% reduction from AoE after the first hit through the avoidance it provides or many similar things per class.

    I have seen it with other guilds, saw it in my own casual friends guild, as example a 75 energy, Tantrum from HC Grong early on aka 4 months ago+, would take the 2-3 players that had unlocked level 38 neck (Therefor the defensive traits) to 20-30%, while it would kill off the combination of lesser geared players + no defensive traits.

    That is huge for any guild and not minimal at all.

    Obviously it doesnt require insane farming, as i said before, 1h every 3 days and you should be up to par, but thats with combination of actually doing your islands, and generally weekly things and not slacking.

    These are things, raid loggers dont wanna do.

    Raid loggers wanna gear up for a few weeks by doing whatever is necessary and then raid log, pay some chinese for gold or do some herbing/alchemy main and voila.

    And they had that from Vanilla to Legion, and then Blizzard told them "Yeah, you have to grind this thing to be able to keep up".

    It all comes down to how you view the game,i have no reason to farm AP, i do it because i dont enjoy my character being considered in the "cesspool".

    Just because i gave up "serious raiding" in the top 100 scene at early Cata, doesnt mean my mentality as a player has change, i will do the maximum in the minimal time required to keep my character competitive without exceeding my limits.
    This. While AP grinding keeps players playing the game a bit more it also burns people out quickly, it's a double-edged sword. IMO Blizzard should try something a bit more time gated thing rather than 24/7 farmable AP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftenwrongsoong View Post
    Are you serious?

    Is he serious?
    Well, compared to other expansions excluding Legion it requires much more activities outside raiding.
    for example: in vanilla, tbc you had this basic consumable farming and some oddball resistance gear needed for specific bosses
    wotlk-wod: mostly basic consumable farming, some gear farming here and there
    legion/BFA: endless AP grinding, consumable farming, endless M+ spam, (legion old content farm for legendaries)
    Last edited by ryjkur; 2019-06-05 at 12:41 PM.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    I get your point, maybe there would be 5 alts instead of 2. But the "grind AP or warm the bench" mentality is happening in average mythic guilds as well.
    Didn't happen in my guild and we got Jaina at rank 270, I basically only logged in for raids and once a week for cache for maybe 2 months.

  11. #91
    Why is "AP grind" even a point of discussion in this thread ? Like, I did the ABSOLUTE bare minimum and sometimes not even that and I got CE and was NEVER, EVER held back by 1-2 levels lower than the more hardcore people. People who complain about the AP grind have been absolutely exaggerating.

  12. #92
    Imagine caring about your world rank in a game this old with a continuously declining playerbase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommi View Post
    LFR saved raiding
    Quote Originally Posted by Haekke View Post
    LFR is not really easy. I would say it's a lot harder thant Mythic Dungeons
    get_a_load_of_this_guy_cam.jpg

  13. #93
    Scarab Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    Imagine caring about your world rank in a game this old with a continuously declining playerbase.
    You do realize that declining player base makes caring about world rank even more important? If the recruitment pool is shrinking, you need to put in more effort to attract those people. Which will probably happen to include AP farming - an additional layer of raid preparation that wasn't there before Legion.

    So, congratulations on making a self defeating statement.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    Like the title says, raiding nowadays is too hardcore and time consuming. Many my old guildmates have quit raiding because the effort it needs every single tier.
    Last two expansions the insane farming required for artifact power grinding is outrageous AND consumable farming in top of that.
    I'm fine with gearing 2 raid ready alts if there would be no AP.

    The raiding scene must go back to its root where you didn't have this insane mandatory AP grinding to stay competitive. I have raided hardcore every single expansion excluding vanilla and this expansion is the first one where I seriously think going casual, and I'm not the only one.

    e: my suggestion would be making actual raid bosses harder at launch of tier, don't make first 80% of bosses loot pinatas. Force guilds to smash their heads on first bosses as well, but maybe make it so bosses drop more loot so it doesn't hurt average guilds in overall progress. I'm fine with longer tiers if there would be no AP grinding every single tier.
    You already have 3 levels of difficulty to choose from, and the encounters are now continuously soft nerfed through the AP/AK system and W/TF. What more do you need? If you are doing 'insane AP grinds', you are doing it wrong. You are trying to brute force early nerfes which indicates your team just is not up to the difficulty/progression speed you are trying for.

  15. #95
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Do LFR, normal, heroic, or anything outside of top 500 mythic.

    I also can't be arsed farming a lot, or honestly even really paying attention, so ~world 1000 is where I stick. Don't always get CE, but eh, don't care, I get to kill 6 hours a week doing something fun instead of 20+

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    You already have 3 levels of difficulty to choose from, and the encounters are now continuously soft nerfed through the AP/AK system and W/TF. What more do you need? If you are doing 'insane AP grinds', you are doing it wrong. You are trying to brute force early nerfes which indicates your team just is not up to the difficulty/progression speed you are trying for.
    Or he's top 20.. But then he'd also need more than 2 alts

  16. #96
    Pandaren Monk Strikeywikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    Can you math that out for me?

    I'm assuming you mean 6 hours of raiding but I believe OP is talking about time in addition to raiding. x amount of time farming M+/AP/mats for consumables/ + same on alts. "I only raid 6 hours a week" doesn't mean you only play 6 hours a week.
    Most people in my guild only raid log and do their weekly m+ chest. We raid 6 hours a week and we're currently progressing Jaina mythic. Those who think they have to spend every hour of spare time grinding shit fails to realise that unless you're aiming to be top 100 for the hall of fame, it shouldn't matter how long it takes. If you can get CE, then congrats, you're in the top 1% of players who can clear mythic when it's current content.

    Granted, you do have the advantage if you grind your ap, but it isn't required to be maxed out just to have a chance at clearing, and the advantage of having max is very small.

  17. #97
    There is no worse feeling than being compelled to farm AP to maximise your group's chances of downing the boss. 5 item levels to a piece of gear is substantial; three of those is equivalent to a Titanforged upgrade.

  18. #98
    I am in a 2 day 6H a week guild and people are burned out which blows my mind since our only requirement was do a +10 and island cap which hasn't been enforced in months now.

  19. #99
    I am Murloc! Frolk's Avatar
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    Complains how hardcore raiding is
    Is in a top 50 guild
    Change to a 400 guild or something less hardcore?
    You DONT need to farm urself to death in a top 400-600 guild.
    R I P old signature.

  20. #100
    You know, they have different difficulty options, yes? Don't like mythic's "hardcore" requirement, do Normal? This thread is funny.

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