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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jademist View Post
    You may enjoy a custom spec but I feel like most people forgot that even with the talent trees you're basically still forced into a cookie-cutter build back in "ye olde days" if you really wanted to do end-game content, especially raids. Also, the class balancing of vanilla was terrible. Sure, balance is never going to be perfect but you can mitigate those issues by reducing the needless complexity of talent trees. A lot of the talents weren't even that "fun". Like, 3% increase to critical strike. That's not "fun". Nor is it fun not having many possible viable specs to choose from. In vanilla, if you wanted to heal, you'd be better off rolling a Holy Priest because healing on the other specs was atrocious and not as optimized because of balance issues.

    Yeah... no. Balance trumps customization.
    Value has always been the major culprit. From a raid encounter/mechanics perspective, value dictates/is the deciding factor whether an encounter is mathematically possible to clear or not. With a simple change in value, things along the way get cleared along with progression- learning boss mechanics, learning how to time and trigger boss phases, etc.

    Same thing with balance issue on skills or talent. In actuality, talents are future dungeon boss or raid skills and mechanics. Talent highly modifies and existing skills by changing one of the spell property's value or having a new spell introduced not yet accessible to players but can be encounter in the world.

    Think about it.


    Void crash was a WotLK last boss move in Ankahet. DK's Defile is a skill by Arthras LK in ICC. It already existed way back. So what could be a balance issue? Projectile speed the speed dictates whether it can be dodgeable or not. When it reach the target area too fast that it doesn't allow a player to move out od the way, then that is a balance issue. Or let's say value of damage. One shotting someone with 1B damage is an equivalent wipe mechanics for raid boss but if you implement it as skill or talent for players to use, that value should't be used as it will make all encounters trivial.

    I have been dealing with remake suggestion for heroes and skills and cosmetics as a part of the suggestors/implementors way back in DoTA, back when the development was steered by the pbulic and community, either for cosmetic purposes or for the purpose of removing redundancy among different heroes. I believe the game development aspect resides along one line may it be for a MoBA game or a toolkit for WoW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Saving this post for Mage Dynamic Talent: first off is Arcane Mage so watch out! Next will be Fire Mages and their Flame orb mechanics and last but not the least, Frost mages and their icicles king of crowd control.


    Arcane:
    After Image, Replicate, Multicast, Sound Barrier.
    Frost:
    New Talent: Jack Frost, Frost's Bite, Biting Frost, Frost Bitten mechanics.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-12 at 07:24 PM.

  2. #42

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    Too complicated.
    It may look complicated on paper but it's actually simple.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    It may look complicated on paper but it's actually simple.
    To be fair, if its so simple, why are you having so much difficulty explaining it? Because it really is confusing and complicated.

  5. #45
    Torchlight 2 and GW had an interesting talent system. Probably something like that would be great for WoW as well.

    It is literally the old talent system, but with more choices, and a separation of active and passive abilities, also based on weapon choice.

    Depth would not come from a complicated big tree, but from a few choices based on the type of gear you equip. And what role you would want. Trees like that also would allow hybrids.

    WoW could utilize horizontal progression instead of a vertical one.
    Last edited by duselsteiner; 2019-06-06 at 09:52 PM.

  6. #46
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Tldr, but I'll take customization over balance.
    WoW: Wyrmrest Accord - Alliance
    Classic:
    FFXIV: Crystal Datacenter (Balmung & Mateus servers)
    "In the spirit of education, the first thing I would like to impress upon you is one of the most surprising lessons I learned: Public speculation is always wrong. Always." - John Staats, The WoW Diary

  7. #47
    It’s not fun to level up and earn something every 5 levels but can only choose 1 out of those per 15.

    The current talent system isn’t fun, neither was the previous system. Talents aren’t fun in general because the require min/maxing for each talent, boss, and whatever else you can think of. To me, it feels like when I chose a talent it’s like I have to choose something that should be baseline, something okay, or why is this even here.

    This is why I like ff14, I don’t have to worry about forgetting a tome to respec before a boss fight. I don’t have to worry about being in aoe spec. The job is the job. Nothing more, nothing less.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    It definitely won't, but you can increase balance in many ways.

    I simply tend to prefer more balance and less customization.

    To be clear, the more you remove rpg elements, the better the balance.
    Catering to people like this has ruined the game.
    Quote Originally Posted by The-Shan View Post
    This was shown at BlizzCon. Blizzard is a community, not a company. Activision makes games for the Blizzard community.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    To be fair, if its so simple, why are you having so much difficulty explaining it? Because it really is confusing and complicated.
    Am I? Or you might be the one having difficulty understanding it?I have to post lengthy paragraph and make detailed description so everybody would get a clear image in their minds while trying to visualize it.As you can see I haven't even posted an image of how it would look like because I haven't given an effort to photoshop or make an in-game look of how things will appear in-game. Why would I do that first if I won't be successful in layingout how it would basically work or look?

    Do not worry, I will rephrase some of the sentences so it will be easier to comprehend.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Usernameforforums View Post
    It’s not fun to level up and earn something every 5 levels but can only choose 1 out of those per 15.

    The current talent system isn’t fun, neither was the previous system. Talents aren’t fun in general because the require min/maxing for each talent, boss, and whatever else you can think of. To me, it feels like when I chose a talent it’s like I have to choose something that should be baseline, something okay, or why is this even here.

    This is why I like ff14, I don’t have to worry about forgetting a tome to respec before a boss fight. I don’t have to worry about being in aoe spec. The job is the job. Nothing more, nothing less.
    No matter what you do, like it or not, leveling a character up has been a core factor for RPG games and derivatives. Even adventure game like DMC relies on exp and leveling up a character. Like Thanos said "I am inevitable."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Bonus feature: Talent spec background! Can be obtained from doing quests, finishing raid or unlocking achievements.

    Think of it as Hearthstone card art with various spells like mind flay, surrender to madness, void torrent, etc.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-06 at 11:15 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Am I? Or you might be the one having difficulty understanding it?I have to post lengthy paragraph and make detailed description so everybody would get a clear image in their minds while trying to visualize it.As you can see I haven't even posted an image of how it would look like because I haven't given an effort to photoshop or make an in-game look of how things will appear in-game. Why would I do that first if I won't be successful in layingout how it would basically work or look?

    Do not worry, I will rephrase some of the sentences so it will be easier to comprehend.
    Teacher "Why are my students so dumb? Its THEIR fault for not understanding me. Yes, its them, not me"

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Teacher "Why are my students so dumb? Its THEIR fault for not understanding me. Yes, its them, not me"
    I do not see anything wrong if you don't get everything by simply skimming through the walls of text. I do understand honestly, no need to be hard on yourself.

    I made some of the description atleast one to three liners tops and I did try my best to use simple English. Maybe reading it a second time would clear out any misunderstanding.



    Mage Dynamic Talents
    Talent Bracket V:
    Sound Barrier, Omnipresence, Evanescent, Replicate, After Image, Magnitude Reversal.

    Tier I:
    Arcane Familiar
    :
    Spoiler: 

    α- Your Arcane Familiar now grants bonus intellect but the duration is reduced in half.
    Tier I - 1% Int, 5% Mana
    Tier II - 2% Int,7% Mana
    Tier III - 3% Int, 9% Mana
    Tier IV - 4% Int,11% Mana
    Tier V - 5% Int, 13% Mana
    β-
    γ- Your Arcane familiar now creates a lesser Arcane familiar. Conjures a lesser arcane familiar after 5 seconds which grants mana. Lasts 30 seconds. 20 seconds cooldown.
    Tier I - 5% increased mana
    Tier II - 10% increased mana
    Tier III - 15% increased mana
    Tier IV - 20% increase mana
    Tier V - 25% increase mana

    Ultimate: Casting Arcane Intellect on your Arcane Familiar now grant bonus Intelligence gained as aura within several yards.
    Tier VIII- 50%
    Tier IX-100%

    Spell changes:

    Amplification:
    Amplification talent mechanics is now baked the new talent Reverse Magnitude.Frees up Amplification Talent Name.

    Magnitude Reversal:
    Grants Amplify and Dampen
    (Arcane Barrage 2 removed and now part of Magnitude Reversal)
    α Arcane Barrage now hit additional x enemy for y% damage
    β Arcane Barrage now hit additional target for x damage.
    γ Arcane Barrage deals x damage to the same target if no additional enemies are nearby.

    Affects: Prismatic Barrier, Arcane Barrage, Arcane Missile

    Sound Barrier*New*
    Spell Description:
    Spoiler: 

    Encase target enemy in a soundproof bubble interrupting the current spell from being cast and causing similar spell of the same spell type to be spell locked for 2 seconds. When cast on self, you are immune to cast delays brought by damaing source or effects. When you cast Arcane Blast on the enemy affected by Sound Barrier, you deal Deafening Blast within an area for 2 seconds and additional spell lock duration to the primary target for every arcane charge.


    Talent Traits:
    Spoiler: 

    α increase self buff duration and reduced mana cost
    β increase area of effect from defeaning blast.
    γ reduce cooldown of sound barrier.


    Spell Property:
    Base Cooldown: 30 seconds
    Mana Cost: x% + additional y% mana per arcane charge

    Enemy duration: 3 seconds.
    Self duration: 10 seconds.
    Deafening blast: AoE interrupt: Silence
    Duration: 2 seconds
    Primary Target:2 seconds+ x second per arcane charge


    Evanescent *New*
    Somewhat returning talent which consolidates invisibility and greater invisibility modifiers such as Master of Escape and gives it new mechanics which alters blink related spells.

    Consolidates Master of Escape Talent mechanics to Evanescent
    Frees Master of Escape Talent name
    Master of Escape now affects Blink and Displacement.


    Omnipresence *NEW*
    Talent synergy with After Image,Mirror Image, Displacement and Blink,Shimmer


    Talent Interaction: Shimmer amd Omnipresence γ
    Shimmer does add the additional Blink Charge to displacement.
    Shimmer still consume Blink charges.
    Shimmer will still Replace Blink:

    Frees up Rewind Time Talent name and consolidate Rewind Time mechanics to Omnipresence.

    Almost has the same effect as Artifact Trait Everywhere at Once

    α - reduces greatly Displacement's base cooldown and gains spell charge.
    60/55/50/45/40/35/30/25/20 seconds.

    β - increase duration of displacement window time.
    Talent Bracket +4,8,12,16,20 or 2 sec per talent tier.

    γ - Rework on Displacement. Blink now has 10 second cooldown and gains spell charges.
    Tier Bracket I 2 charges.
    Tier Bracket II 3 charges.
    Tier Bracket III 4 charges.
    Tier Bracket IV 5 charges.
    Tier Bracket V 6 charges.

    Displacement.
    Within 3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 seconds.

    After Image.
    You have a chance to leave an image of yourself and after several seconds, mimics the action performed .

    Can be passive or a self buff.

    Spell Changes:
    Displacement's BCD: 40 seconds.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-10 at 01:34 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    I have no idea why someone would put in so much effort into something thats got nothing to do with the game.
    Nothing related to the game? Talent system existed even before Wow 1.0. Way back even before beta and alpha.

  13. #53
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    So OP...liking your moment in the spotlight as a wannabe game dev?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    So OP...liking your moment in the spotlight as a wannabe game dev?
    @det
    I have never liked being put under a spotlight in all honesty. I'm a
    " behind the scene" type of person. Being in a spotlight reminds me of being in a "hot seat" - literally or figuratively. It makes you feel the heat and really sweaty.

    I'm more of a "in collaboration" type of guy. The more people involved, the merrier. Just like what I did when I spearheaded DoTA Cosmetics Revolution back when DoTA was not yet ported to Valve. I like appreciating noteworthy suggestions from fellow suggestors.Doing/talking about something that two or more individuals feel passionate about and get appreciated by the same community which love and support the same game. Blizzard's game for me has always been involving the community be it War3 Map Editor or WoW's LUAs scripts and add-ons.It's pretty much the same with youtubers showing content to the public so many would enjoy and get engaged.

    Video games has always been a passion ever since I was a kid. And I'm not contented by just simply being a player. It doesn't bother me even if I don't get monetization from my ideas primarily it is because it is what I love doing. I love playing with ideas. For me it's like playing with Lego.That's the reason why I never used videos or youtube as my avenue for showcasing an idea I have in mind. I have always been a BBCode discussion board fan.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Creating new post for a different spec after trying to update Arcane Mage Dyanmic Talent, it seems that it would create a very very long post.I will also use spoiler tag for collapsable section as well.

    Frost Mage:
    Chill Factor, Cold Front, Frostbite,Absolute Zero, Jack Frost
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-08 at 06:28 PM.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Nothing related to the game? Talent system existed even before Wow 1.0. Way back even before beta and alpha.
    His proposal, has NO GRAVITY to whats going to happen in the game...

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    His proposal, has NO GRAVITY to whats going to happen in the game...
    There is something going to happen and it has something to do with Talent System.
    Every 4th expansion an overhaul of the current talent system happens.
    WoW Vanilla > TBC > WotLK > Cataclysm = Talent Tree Era
    MoP > WoD> Legion> BfA > Talent Row
    Next Expac marks the new talent system and it will be a reiteration of the current one. The next logical iteration would be no other than talent brackets.


    Shaman Dynamic Talent *reserved post*
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 10:42 AM.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Costa View Post
    Balance is never gonna be perfect, i would take the massive trees of Vanilla over a talent tree design we have now just because you can make your own spec you enjoy more.
    Costa, you'd just look up on WoWHead what your talents and specs should be, just in Classic's talent tree design rather than current.. it'd be no different, you would not be unique.. it's a great idea, to think, I'll be the only person or in a very small group that does this! YAY IM SPECIAL.. but you won't be and you're not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    There is something going to happen and it has something to do with Talent System.
    Every 4th expansion an overhaul of the current talent system happens.
    WoW Vanilla > TBC > WotLK > Cataclysm = Talent Tree Era
    MoP > WoD> Legion> BfA > Talent Row
    Next Expac marks the new talent system and it will be a reiteration of the current one. The next logical iteration would be no other than talent brackets.
    Alright OP, you're putting a lot of words in digital ink and maybe they're genius, maybe they're not. Doesn't matter. You have chosen the wrong place to post such lengthy and wordy posts.. I get you're like a really hyped up sufferer of ADHD who can't stop smiling when thinking about turning off "bar-snapping" while editing your videos to give you that extra bit of touch, AMIRITE?! but in all reality, you have to create a website or something, clean up the "data"(or your imaginary expansion) and present it smaller.. most of the time a picture with arrows is all you need.. you don't need to write down every thought you had ever in the process.. no one cares about that. GG

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whatalamedude View Post
    Costa, you'd just look up on WoWHead what your talents and specs should be, just in Classic's talent tree design rather than current.. it'd be no different, you would not be unique.. it's a great idea, to think, I'll be the only person or in a very small group that does this! YAY IM SPECIAL.. but you won't be and you're not.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Alright OP, you're putting a lot of words in digital ink and maybe they're genius, maybe they're not. Doesn't matter. You have chosen the wrong place to post such lengthy and wordy posts.. I get you're like a really hyped up sufferer of ADHD who can't stop smiling when thinking about turning off "bar-snapping" while editing your videos to give you that extra bit of touch, AMIRITE?! but in all reality, you have to create a website or something, clean up the "data"(or your imaginary expansion) and present it smaller.. most of the time a picture with arrows is all you need.. you don't need to write down every thought you had ever in the process.. no one cares about that. GG
    Nope, I'm not the kind of guy who's all "please notice me sempai, cries of the corner rolling when not noticed."
    As of now I don't have all the resource to do everything all at once. For example editing from scratch all the WoWUI and create it into something I would like it to appear as in-game.

    As for the talents and all the available specs, it would take time but at least some would get the idea. I'm busy playing DoTA2 atm so i can't multitask. And it's quite a hassle to edit everything in real time.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    There is something going to happen and it has something to do with Talent System.
    Every 4th expansion an overhaul of the current talent system happens.
    WoW Vanilla > TBC > WotLK > Cataclysm = Talent Tree Era
    MoP > WoD> Legion> BfA > Talent Row
    Next Expac marks the new talent system and it will be a reiteration of the current one. The next logical iteration would be no other than talent brackets.
    Two data points a trend does not make. Not to mention that you forgot the major change(must invest at least x points in 1 tree before branching) in WotLK, so we're actually in the third era already, which breaks your neat little pattern.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Two data points a trend does not make. Not to mention that you forgot the major change(must invest at least x points in 1 tree before branching) in WotLK, so we're actually in the third era already, which breaks your neat little pattern.
    That was the era for Talent Tree which covers the mechanics for the 1st four expac.
    With Cata pruning most of the talents and some of it being consolidated, what remained became the Talent Rows of MoP-BfA era.
    WoD expands the talent row by 1, Legion introduced PVP Talents (rows), BfA introduced PVP Warmode (dropdown list)

    Druid Talents:
    Lunar Cycle, Equinox, One with the Universe


    Restoration:
    Life Cycle, Symbiosis, Evolution,

    Shaman:
    Tropical Depression Storm Cloud, Monsoon, Ebb & Flow, Tidehunter, Current Flows(3 spec talent)
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 10:39 AM.

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