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  1. #61
    None of the pre tbc talents are in the build!!!

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    That was the era for Talent Tree which covers the mechanics for the 1st four expac.
    It was a major change in how you could allocate points to talents, just as MoP was. It was a seperate era.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muller21pr View Post
    None of the pre tbc talents are in the build!!!
    Martyrdom will return with a new Mechanics, same as Inner Fire and Will for Priest, so watch out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It was a major change in how you could allocate points to talents, just as MoP was. It was a seperate era.
    Most of the Talents with 3-5 ranks were downranked, same value over 1 or 2 talent ranks.

    When I mean first 4 expac, I included Vanilla upto Cata.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Nope.

    The less the customization, the better for the balance.

    We need more and different challenges, not customization ( which is meaningless, since there will always be a better spec or class, and it will simply change the meta ).
    This will encourage Spec meta and eould creste roster for ToP X of class with the wide variety of talent build.



    Disc Priest:
    Twin Discipline, Martyrdom, Focus Will, Metanoia

    Shining Force
    α reduce cooldown and your Holy Nova has x% chance to reset Shining Force per target affected.
    β - Increase knockback radius and slow duration
    γ -Reworks Shining Force. Shining Force is now passive and allows your Holy Nova to trigger the effect of Shining Force for x%. Your next Holy Nova can be casted on an ally and will trigger the effect of Shining Force.

    Ultimate - increase the damage done by Holy Nova by x% while under the effect of Shining Force.


    Focused Will *Rework*
    - Is once again a Talent shared amongst 3 specs.
    Frees up Driven to Madness PvP tslent name. Consolidate the effect to new Focused Will.
    Disc/Holy:
    Shadow:
    Gain insanity resources when hit. The insanity gained is 2x/3x/4x when critically hit or 10% of maximum health had been lost due to damaging effects or sources.

    α increase duration
    β increase stacks.
    γ WotLK effect remake. You automatically gain PWS x times the original amount and lasts longer.

    Ultimate - You learn Inner Will.
    *enhanced Focus Will WoD perk returns baked in Inner Will.
    Twin Disciplines (NEW):
    - Remove Archangel and Dark Archangel PvP Warmode Talent
    - Frees up Archangel and Dark Archangel Talent names.
    - Use Catclysm Shadow Priest' Darkness Icon.
    - Use the Vanilla upto WotLK's Discipline Priest Talent name Twin Disciplines.

    Enters one of the two disciplines and while under the effect, become either Shadow's Disciple or Light's Disciple. You gain indoctrination charges per holy or shadow spells you cast. After 20 seconds, you enter one of the two discipline state which ever indoctrination charges is higher or has reached the number of maximum stack for 15 seconds.

    Spell Properties:
    Base Cooldown: 60 seconds
    Base Trigger counter: 20 seconds
    Spell Target: Self
    Spell Type: Passive

    a - increase the duration to Shadow's Disciple or Light's Disciple per indoctrination charges and max charges.
    b - reduce Cooldown and countdown timer.
    -23/21/19/17/15 second.
    55/50/45/40 sec cooldown.
    y - increase the effect of Disciple of Light and Darkness beneficial buff per indoctrination charges and buff duration.

    Light's Disciple- Increase all healing and absorption spells by x% for 15 seconds +y seconds per indoctrination counter and refresh all atonement on affected allies.
    Shadow's Disciple- Increase your damage and all your allies with atonement by x% for 15 seconds + y seconds per indoctrination counter.

    Ultimate:
    You further benefit from the effect of Light's Disciple or Dark's Disciple per indoctrination charges you acquire.

    Talent Details:
    A cycling efficiency boost per minute and can cycle to either healing or offensive gameplay.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-18 at 11:53 PM.

  4. #64
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    Some Shadow Priests Dynamic Talents:
    Phantasm and Ghostform,
    Seven Deadly Sins (from returning reworked Talent Sin and Punishment)

    Sin and Punishment (Disc and Shadow)
    Learns Seven Deadly Sins

    A talent which utilizes shadow priest spells and greatly modifies Shadow Wordeath

    Learns Sin and Punishment(Discipline Priest)
    A talent which alters Atonement buff in a new playstyle. It becomes a debuff from damaging sources and affects output with Weakened Soul debuff)


    Power of the Dark Side (now includes Shadow spec)
    Vampiric Caress
    Pure Shadows (rework) with improved Shadowform called Shadeform
    Dark Crucifix
    Surrender to Madness meta (focused in insanity management playstyle)
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-19 at 12:02 AM.

  5. #65
    Elemental Lord Orby's Avatar
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    We do need more talents or a level squish, because leveling without reward is so boring

    I aint asking to bring back the old talent trees, I actually don;t mind the talent rows, but I just wish there were more of them. Fuck balance, bring back uniqueness again. Anything to make leveling more interesting and fun.
    "Hatred and prejudice will never be eradicated. And witch hunts will never be about witches. To have a scapegoat—that's the key" - Geralt of Rivia

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    Fuck balance, bring back uniqueness again. Anything to make leveling more interesting and fun.
    agree 500%. The pursuit of balance is what has slowly killed off everything special and fun about the classes for me at least.

  7. #67
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    I have several goals as to why I created and suggested this kind of new Talent system based on the current trend of WoW Talent system and how I envision how it would look like.

    Using my experience with the old DoTA1 community of the Warcraft III era as a remake suggestor and contributor, I did my best to come up with interesting and fun playstyle using old Talent names in new mechanics.

    - Encourages a wide variety of playstyle for a spec.
    - Several mythic+ and/raid streaming featuring different ways to clear it using different talent build and give us insight of its performance.
    - competitive roster for a class community say top 10,25,50 of all population of all classes.
    - WoW could push new Meta at several timeframes perhaps even upto 4 meta in a month. That would be 1 meta per week as class highlight.
    - Encourages replayability and variety. Playing your spec and class wouldn't be dull and boring as you can give your raid run a try with a different build.
    - Allows a player to have his signature build which would create identity apart from just his character name. His talent build will greatly enforce who he is as a player.
    - Players can benefit from multispec option provided by game. Dual and Trispec and would greatly push the use of the in-game talent planner.
    - Two different player having the same class and same spec being included in a raid progression will most like not play a like and would rely on a spec on spec synergy. One Shadow priest will purely be offensive while the other will be playing as a semihealer with Vampirism talent build.
    - No more competition with the same class and spec for a raid spot and since raid set and tier tokens have been remove, a causing issue to take only one of one class per raid run, a raid could have atleast 3 to 4 priests playing atleast 2 of the specs but play differently.

    It is possible to clear a raid with a raid composition of just 3 classes say Paladin,Priests and another one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by justandulas View Post
    The less customization, the less fun. Fact. That’s why classic and tbc are so beloved.

    My biggest knock on the OPs system is still too little in that regard. Only one new ability at 120? Not I want a new ability every level from 110-120

    Eq, a game older than wow, still adds new abilities to its classes as of just this year so I don’t understand or buy any of blizzards excuses of “its too hard”. No it isn’t, just open an ad&d manual and start rhere

    - - - Updated - - -



    That’s the biggest issue with modern WoW is all the rpg elements were stripped out over the years and what’s left is like a bad parody of what an mmorpg should be. It has more in common with diablo 3 than eq and you should never be able to say that about an mmorpg, especially considering diablo 3 did all it could to strip rpg elements too
    It's actually 6x3 per class. So that's a total of 18 new spells you may try to experiment with, begin to love, regularly use and occasionally switch to as often as you like.

    I even haven't mentioned that the Ultimate talent modifier is also at play. Old talents get perks when being chosen as Talent bracket V or Tier VIII & IX or L105/120 if you choose them as your preference. That is more variety to gameplay and spec variety.
    That's a total of 9x3x3=81 playstyles per class.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-14 at 09:21 PM.

  8. #68
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    12 classes with 36 specs overall, 3 talent traits and 9 talent tiers....

    27 different talent traits to choose from,A total of 976 playstyles! But that's not all...

    Future of WoW and its limitless gameplay potentials.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 10:04 AM.

  9. #69
    Feral druids get the shaft again?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Feral druids get the shaft again?
    Actually, I find how they designed the Druid class as something ideal with one talent benefiting or affect all the spec. I will look into Feral Druid later and see what I can come up with.

    Holy Priest:
    Soteriology, Doctor of Divinity,Litany

    Holy Paladin:
    Radiesthesia

    Monk:
    Nirvana, Chakra
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 11:28 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    When I mean first 4 expac, I included Vanilla upto Cata.
    It was a major change in how you could allocate points to talents, just as MoP was. It was a seperate era.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It was a major change in how you could allocate points to talents, just as MoP was. It was a seperate era.
    If you ask me every talent system is just a succession of the previous one.


    Talent Tree Era a.k.a. Checklist
    - add more talents and more points to spend
    - remove clutter and dispensable passives and contract talent tree (Cata Era) with cropped out "hybrid choice"

    Talent Row Era a.k.a. Multiple Choice (a,b or c)
    - Consolidate meaningful talent into a "talent table" make highly used talents baseline.
    - WoD adds another talent row.
    - Legion diversified PvE and PvP talents once again with separate talent table
    - BfA consolidated PvP Talents into pooled choices and "Warmode"

    So the only logical progression is do that for PvE Talents as well. Thus my suggestion for how one picks a talent. And a row agnostic talent choice for player choice liberty on which talent x talent synergy to capitalize.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 11:29 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    So the only logical progression is do that for PvE Talents as well. Thus my suggestion for how one picks a talent. And a row agnostic talent choice for player choice liberty on which talent x talent synergy to capitalize.
    Except that doesn't work for PvE in the same way it does for PvP. In PvP, there are considerations aside from what the numerically best choice is. In PvE, there aren't.

    Your system would simply result in a fixed set of talents used by everybody, that may then just as well be a fixed part of the spec.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Except that doesn't work for PvE in the same way it does for PvP. In PvP, there are considerations aside from what the numerically best choice is. In PvE, there aren't.

    Your system would simply result in a fixed set of talents used by everybody, that may then just as well be a fixed part of the spec.
    Base on my observation,a brand new start on a talent system (MoP' introduction to Talent Rows) homogenizes pve and pvp talents in just one talent pool. It's basically a 3x6 table including all the 3 specs, 4 for the druid class.

    I haven't shown the next iteration or the next phases of the suggested system. Like MoP to BfA, the system would evolve over a course of several expansions and just to be consistent with what tradition has been going on with the Talent feature of WoW, the changes would be spread across 4 expac 9.0 to 12.0.

    In the long run each talent columns would then become talent lists of their own. So basically
    These talent rings will be grouped into 3:
    ○ ○ ○ the talent rings are your talent choices
    □ □ □ the talent tiers are your talent list for the effect modfying the talent

    So in the future
    ○○○
    □□□
    ▪▪▪
    ○○○ [Tier I,II,III or Talent L15,30,45]
    □□□ [a drop down list of the chosen talent selected]
    ▪▪▪
    ○○○ [Tier IV,V,VI or L60,75,90]
    □□□ [same as row of squares above but for bracket II]
    ▪▪▪
    ○○○ [ Tier VII, VII,IX or L 100,105,120]
    □□□
    ▪▪▪
    ○○○ [Tier X,XII,XII or L 135,150,165]
    □□□

    It will never be a fixed fixed talent since you can place Body & Soul at Bracket IV to activate the Ultimate Effect
    or Have Evangelism as your Tier I talent if it's your choice for a lower than standard spell just like spell ranks.

    One thing to consider about the current system is the rigidity with fixed value for a talent be its property or effecr. It always has a fixed cooldown,manacost, effect and seldomly modified through set bonuses only or the new Azerite traits.How many times do you see set effect during tier sets modifying a talent, seldom if not none. As for Azerite traits I can mention some like Lingering insanity talent modifier. This will be baked on a tier choice or column as a talent modifier.
    With my suggested talent system, the talent itself is dynamic as it scales in value the higher the rank it is positioned.

    So, it provides the players their choice to increase PPM, CPM, duration/cd, throughput, buff/debuff downtime, etc. on all exiating talents.

    The current bracket values can then be readjust in the future once the Warmode like 9 circle talent tiers are rearranged similarly to the visuals of the current talent row.
    So instead of 12 ranks they will readjust the value by talent bracket say into 4,5,or 6 which is basically consucted on every 4th expac or the pruning stages.
    Adjust value by increments of either 2,3,4,5,6,10,12,15 per rank/bracket.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-15 at 08:11 PM.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    Nope, I'm not the kind of guy who's all "please notice me sempai, cries of the corner rolling when not noticed."
    This is a personal blog - and you are desperate for attention - you are even trying to direct ppl from other threads into this one. 30%+ of the posts in this entire thread are you....You are ignoring all negative feedback, of which there has been quite a bit. Your op is an absolute shambles and you continue to fail to explain your intentions clearly - its just word salad. Multiple ppl can see this cry for attention for what it is, desperate for that 15mins of fame - on a fansite for a 15yo mmo - actually maybe "fame" is a very strong word to use lol.

    You gave it a go, most ppl seem to either not be interested in your convoluted and confusing ideas, or flat out dont like it. There really isnt much here to discuss, you are not open to feedback - you just want a pat on the back.

    You make absurd claims like "they ARE redoing the talent systems", among other baseless assumptions, and just completely gloss over it when asked for any kind of proof of these claims. They MIGHT redo the talent systems, and that would make you "correct" but there is absolutely ZERO chance its because "they do it every four expacs". Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    My advice - stop trying to add more and more to an already crowded and confusing thread. Slow down, take some time to listen to feedback, and try to tidy things up so they make sense - because honestly, this isnt a personal blog, and thats all this looks like at the moment - notepad sketches and scribbles.

    note - calling it "the thread i manage" in other threads to try and direct people here is really cringe - you dont "manage" anything - you made a thread just like any of us, only this one is confusing as hell and doesnt make sense.
    Last edited by arkanon; 2019-06-16 at 04:28 AM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    this one is confusing as hell and doesnt make sense.
    Have you seen his other thread? His Dragon Soul fanfic makes even less sense than this.

  17. #77
    way to complex,they cant balance the game now with limited options,even with the old trees where options were even more limited the balance was crap,doing this would be a nighmare balance wise

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    This is a personal blog - and you are desperate for attention - you are even trying to direct ppl from other threads into this one. 30%+ of the posts in this entire thread are you....You are ignoring all negative feedback, of which there has been quite a bit. Your op is an absolute shambles and you continue to fail to explain your intentions clearly - its just word salad. Multiple ppl can see this cry for attention for what it is, desperate for that 15mins of fame - on a fansite for a 15yo mmo - actually maybe "fame" is a very strong word to use lol.

    You gave it a go, most ppl seem to either not be interested in your convoluted and confusing ideas, or flat out dont like it. There really isnt much here to discuss, you are not open to feedback - you just want a pat on the back.

    You make absurd claims like "they ARE redoing the talent systems", among other baseless assumptions, and just completely gloss over it when asked for any kind of proof of these claims. They MIGHT redo the talent systems, and that would make you "correct" but there is absolutely ZERO chance its because "they do it every four expacs". Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    My advice - stop trying to add more and more to an already crowded and confusing thread. Slow down, take some time to listen to feedback, and try to tidy things up so they make sense - because honestly, this isnt a personal blog, and thats all this looks like at the moment - notepad sketches and scribbles.

    note - calling it "the thread i manage" in other threads to try and direct people here is really cringe - you dont "manage" anything - you made a thread just like any of us, only this one is confusing as hell and doesnt make sense.
    If The thread I manage doesn't entail: editing, proofreading, updating, paraphrasing, replying to comments and other "thread managing" things you have to do perhaps you aren't conscious of what you are doing in reality, am i right?

    There are non obvious trends that people are oblivious about since they are focusing more on other things: nitpicking unenjoyable features and those along the line. I on the other hand disn't have a have a haed time spotting it.

    As you can see, one of the guys commenting there mentioned something similar to the idea he wanted to have thus I encouraged him to check it out on his own volition. If it was his choice to check it, good. If not, it's fine and I don't have any hard feelings. If others become curious and wanted to check it out as well, then by all means please do so.
    It would be more rude if I spam the other thread if I posted stuff about my 9.0 Dynamic talent and trying to steal the scene by incessantly cutting in and making replies and just talking about this thing all day long.

    How could it be a personal blog if each and every post has an equal oppurtunity to be check out by a random person or those who are really interested to participate in that discussion? I'm no elitist and never ever been a jealous kind of guy.
    Last edited by vertigo12; 2019-06-16 at 04:54 AM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    If The thread I manage doesn't entail: editing, proofreading, updating, paraphrasing, replying to comments and other "thread managing" things you have to do perhaps you aren't conscious of what you are doing in reality, am i right?

    There are non obvious trends that people are oblivious about since they are focusing more on other things: nitpicking unenjoyable features and those along the line. I on the other hand disn't have a have a haed time spotting it.
    What on earth are you blabbing about? Another perfect example of word salad and rambling that makes no sense at all. And yet again you ignored all feedback and suggestions, and instead put your fingers in your ears and sing "LALALAL EVERYTHING IS FINE IM MANAGING MY THREAD AND MY IDEAS ARE FLAWLESS!"

    If you cant stay on topic in the thread you "manage" what hope does your thread have?

  20. #80
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigo12 View Post
    I haven't shown the next iteration or the next phases of the suggested system. Like MoP to BfA, the system would evolve over a course of several expansions and just to be consistent with what tradition has been going on with the Talent feature of WoW, the changes would be spread across 4 expac 9.0 to 12.0.
    In no way shape or form is a talent overhaul going to be spread over four expansions. That would mean 1-3 are broken systems only to exist in a finished form for 1 expansion. As you say they re-do talents every four expansions. So by the time your weird idea is complete it would be redone. There are many flaws with your concept that have mostly been pointed out. But you sort of defeat your own concept by your own words. You are to close to the idea. You are infatuated with it. This doesn't allow you to design a game or a concept that will work in a larger game.

    Game design is about knowing when an idea is bad and being able to change it. Failed games come from blindly believe you are right no matter what. This doesn't even reek of a good system. You have one set of talents that got modified different as you level. But you still have to pick and choose which modification to take. It is basically like now but with more illusion of choice. You can't balance modifiers with each other because not all things are great modifiers.

    Your idea of modifiers would work great with a psuedo azerite tier based system rather then a core talent system. Something you work towards unlocking for each tier/season of the expansion. As you do the content to unlock more modifers it slowly builds up to a cohesive system over the course of the expansion. You need to learn the phrase KISS. Keep it simple stupid. Systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated. You are to caught up in the details of talents and the like. That combined with your english as a second language creates complication in those trying to decipher it.

    I mean I can summarize your whole system by calling it "Staircase talents". As you level you descend the stair case. You start at at step 1. As you move to step 2 there is another row under step one for your to modify. Then as you progress along the talents (steps) you get more modifiers. Though we know this system doesn't really work all that great. As they have tried spell and talent modifiers as perks for content.

    The problem, and a flaw of your idea, is that those perks turn out to be really good and really bad when they are removed. That is why some of the best tier, azerite, artifact, glyph, etc perks get baked into the base spell/talent.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
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