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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by smityx View Post
    Probably not VR but AR (augmented reality) possibly. Just look back at the Pokemon Go craze. Imagine roaming your own town fighting stuff. Joining a group for a raid in your local public park for instance.
    Hmm, I guess you could do it with your phone like that, but it would be quite hard to make a proper progression there. People would just stop playing the moment their usual habitat no longer has anything to offer. But I think that is still a different niche compared to our classical mmorpg player doing it so for relxation and entertainment at home.

  2. #42
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxuvox View Post
    So the question I'm asking is a simple one. Does WoW need to die for the MMO scene to rejuvenate? Putting it another way, does the very presence of WoW prevent the success of a new MMO IP? In the same way that a forest fire clears the way for new life, would the death of WoW encourage a new MMO, or even several, to rise in it's place?

    What are your thoughts?
    In a word: No.

    Because if WoW died, FFXIV would be doing largely the same thing, in the same way, just with a longer GCD and a really mega-anime plot. Hell, say Blizzard accidentally destroyed WoW tomorrow, unrecoverably, probably 50%+ of the players would head over to FFXIV. So long as there is a game carrying the torch for holy-trinity based (i.e. tank, healer, dps) games with a hotbar, a GCD and structure involving instanced dungeons and raids, that sort of game will exist.

    The only way the MMORPG market moves on is with a profound technology change and a game that takes advantage of that technology change to provide an unparalleled experience. At that point it's immaterial if WoW still exists or not.

    People saying that MMOs "evolved and moved beyond WoW" though are sadly mistaken. ESO and GW2 are not really "beyond" WoW as much as off to the side of it. They're still all about the hotbars and GCDs, and their endgames are still instanced dungeons and raids.

    The true next-gen MMORPG will probably be something more like a first-person VR deal with mechanics like a massive, polished version of Outward or something.

  3. #43
    Brewmaster smityx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Hmm, I guess you could do it with your phone like that, but it would be quite hard to make a proper progression there. People would just stop playing the moment their usual habitat no longer has anything to offer. But I think that is still a different niche compared to our classical mmorpg player doing it so for relxation and entertainment at home.
    Who's to say it has to be on a phone. Looking forward why not some glasshole type headset and gloves for gestures. Eye tracking, etc. Think future tech in the next 10-20 years.

  4. #44
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    If you think that there is anything wrong with the current MMO scene, then.....yes, it needs to die.

    The problem for innovation in MMOs, is that there is already a game, which have sucked a huge summ of the potential MMO players to it. If it died, like total gone, we would proberly see other companies try and take its place with something new.

    But im not sure, that WoWs replacement would do any better than WoW itself. And im not quite sure, if MMOs like ESO and FFXIV are not keeping up the same scene.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    Every mmo-rpg has had very specific things preventing it from succeeding. BDO for instance had a chance to be amazing, but totally wrecked itself with monetization and reliance on a pvp endgame.

    Right now specifically it wouldn't be hard to outshine world of warcraft - publishers just aren't willing to take a chance on making a really good mmo and letting its quality drive their profits.
    I half-agree with this.

    If you got together a dream-team of programmers, writers, designers, and artists, you could probably build an MMO that played better than WoW in all regards, that was genuinely more fun in all ways, that brought back the thrill of exploration and so on, but also had strong gameplay, etc. etc.

    But the difficulty is that, if you wanted it to have an "acceptable" amount of content, in terms of not just landmass and enemies and so on, but crafting, guild structures, dungeons, raids, etc. you would likely need to spend $200m-$300m. Possibly more. Quality it great, but as has been "quantity is a quality of it's own", and WoW has quantity - vast quantity. It would also likely take 3-5 years if you actually wanted it to be good - years in which WoW and other MMOs would have a chance to get ahead of you in certain regards.

    So I feel like your post acts like it's trivial and publishers are just being cheap. It's not and they aren't. To beat WoW would be a huge investment in time and money, and who is to say the MMO market would even still really be a thing then?

    And just beating WoW at one area isn't going to be enough - FFXIV shows that even beating it in multiple areas isn't enough (especially not if you go for an aesthetic with... limited Western appeal... like FFXIV does).

  6. #46
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    I think MMOs are just a dying genre sadly. The whole meeting people from all over the world and forming friendships and sharing stories, is no longer a unique magic its just normal. I think the next gen will be more about character evolution and less about gear as the small vignette style fighting is the new route and it rewarding for less time investment.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gasblossom View Post
    Classic will kill retail. This is not hyperbole. The retail design team is lost and confused and once players start grinding their Classic characters they will abandon the retail ones and once they fall behind in all the daily and weekly rare farming, which is all that game is now, they will fall out of the habit and never go back. The log in addiction will move to Classic.
    Actually, classic will die off and be abandoned in o e year when people realize the grind is tedious in classic amd there is no progression after a few months.

    See, I can make wildly opinionated statements and state them as fact too, just like you!

  8. #48
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    If you think that there is anything wrong with the current MMO scene, then.....yes, it needs to die.

    The problem for innovation in MMOs, is that there is already a game, which have sucked a huge summ of the potential MMO players to it. If it died, like total gone, we would proberly see other companies try and take its place with something new.

    But im not sure, that WoWs replacement would do any better than WoW itself. And im not quite sure, if MMOs like ESO and FFXIV are not keeping up the same scene.
    XIV is veeerrrryyyy WoW, but has the knock of being "too asian" (which they're really trying to break free of with their new expansion). ESO is very un-WoW, but has a more... "WoW" story.
    WoW: Wyrmrest Accord - Alliance
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    "In the spirit of education, the first thing I would like to impress upon you is one of the most surprising lessons I learned: Public speculation is always wrong. Always." - John Staats, The WoW Diary

  9. #49
    Wow needs to die to save the MMO genre just the way Age of Empires had to die to save the RTS genre. Oh wait...

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by smityx View Post
    Who's to say it has to be on a phone. Looking forward why not some glasshole type headset and gloves for gestures. Eye tracking, etc. Think future tech in the next 10-20 years.
    I think something like that would be an instant bomb, they already burried the google glass and similar projects - that out you as a complete weirdo - will probably have similar issues. I can't help but imagining someone sperging around town because he is currently playing an AR game.

    Wasn't that also part of the plot of that anime that completely went to shit after the first season? <insert me 5 minutes trying to remember the name> Sword Art Online, one of the later seasons iirc (man that took me way too long to remember that title). I remember seeing a parody of that once where the sheer thought had me in tears laughing.

  11. #51
    The Undying Gehco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    And Warhammer Online got killed by EA pulling their typical bullshit of "force studio to release their game before it's ready, sack the studio when it under-performs".
    I didn't count Warhammer, they didn't have a chance.

    Trion, EA and BioWare are the ones who's ruined many MMO dreams.
    Stuff can be fixed, just get enough glue or duct tape!
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Toxuvox View Post
    So the question I'm asking is a simple one. Does WoW need to die for the MMO scene to rejuvenate? Putting it another way, does the very presence of WoW prevent the success of a new MMO IP? In the same way that a forest fire clears the way for new life, would the death of WoW encourage a new MMO, or even several, to rise in it's place?

    What are your thoughts?
    So, keep firmly in mind that although it says mmo-champion.com, you are on an extremely pro-Blizz site. The majority here will tell you that WoW is the bestest, most ultimatist MMO game eva!! And they will produce all kinds of rationale as to why its true.

    No different than being on an Apple fan site, or a Ford fan site, or something like Redstate.

    There are actually several very successful MMOs out there right now, but if you were to ask on this site, you will hear dozens of reasons that any other MMO just isn't good enough. Just like going to an Apple fan site and asking about PCs or Android phones.

    Keep in mind that successful doesn't mean that they are number one. Texas Roadhouse is an extremely successful restaurant chain, but it isn't as big as McDonald's or Subway. And, unless you have some serious taste bud issues, you would happily go to a Texas Roadhouse over McDonald's or Subway. In other words, being big doesn't equal being better.

    And, while it is very difficult to tell how many are actually subscribed to WoW at this time, there is strong indication that FFXIV, ESO, and BDO are actually nipping at WoW's heels...heck, ESO may actually have slightly more subs at this point (even the last official report of 7.1 million subs in 6.2 is highly questionable since the financial math didn't get you to much above 4 million back then).

  13. #53
    Give me WC3:R, Blizz! The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    No. Because WoW isn't the problem.

    Kids don't have the attention span for an MMO anymore, they'd rather get on their phone, play a 10 minute Fortnite match, and get their lootbox.
    Adults don't have the time for an MMO anymore, between a job, self-care, and a family they probably only have time enough to log on, do world quests, maybe a weekly LFR run, and then they need to sleep.

    Gamers are firmly in the mobile design sphere right now. That's why Blizz is pushing so hard to break into that market.
    Which kinda sucks, since those of us who are more "old school" prefer PC gaming over mobile. Sure, I'll play (and enjoy playing) Hearthstone on my phone, or some random game here and there in the bathroom, but beyond that it's not what I go for.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post

    So I feel like your post acts like it's trivial and publishers are just being cheap. It's not and they aren't. To beat WoW would be a huge investment in time and money, and who is to say the MMO market would even still really be a thing then?

    And just beating WoW at one area isn't going to be enough - FFXIV shows that even beating it in multiple areas isn't enough (especially not if you go for an aesthetic with... limited Western appeal... like FFXIV does).
    Yeah, I realize I vastly simplified the argument, I just didn't think a wall of text would help my argument xD

    I was moreso targeting mmo-rpgs that have come out in a state that was really close to being successful, but were hampered by one or two things that pretty much anyone could have told them were bad ideas. Wildstar was a fantastic game that just failed to understand what QoL changes were popular and who their audience was. Rift was another that was too shortsighted in it's implementation of a great system (public quests) and knee jerk balance changes that alienated players from their characters.

    Add to that pretty much every eastern mmo that has failed utterly at monetizing for a western audience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  15. #55
    The by far biggest MMOs out there are some Asian F2P ones which most people in the west never even heard about. You see them pop up from time to time when people post the 10 most grossing games.

    So what does the OP actually want? "MMO" means that the game has a persistent world, that exists independant of players being logged in or not. That is what segregates them from "multiplayer games". All players share this persistent world. In WoW, obviously servers are the actual game-world and phasing+XRealm stuff has done a lot to undermine WoW actually being an MMO in the first place.

    If the OP simply wants a game like WoW that is not WoW....no, that is not going to happen and WoW dying would not help it happening. If you want WoW, just play WoW. There is the whole genre of Looter-Shooters that popped up over the last decade, which is pretty much an evolution of MMOs like WoW. Some of them are great. Many of them are not. A lot of other genres tried mixing in MMO features. One of the most grossing games for example, is basically Street Fighter II as an MMO. Yes, that's right.

    So no, what does or does not happen with the Genre has absolutely nothing to do with WoW. You just need a good idea and a developer putting in the effort. Star Citizen is also an MMO.

  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cface View Post
    Why limit yourself to Blizzard games? 10-15 years ago I could sorta understand it, cause they where kings, but no king rules forever, and this king sold its soul.
    Blizzard have made some bad calls, absolutely. BUT they are still kings when it comes to gameplay. Overwatch is by far the best FPS on the market when it comes to gameplay/controls. You play it more smoothly than CSGO, Battlefield, Apex Legends, CoD or any FPS I ever tried. Same with Diablo 3. The controls are much better than Path of Exile, even though that has some other superior things. And WoW has by far better gameplay/controls than any mmo out there. I love Lord of the Rings online as well, for the story and exploration, but the controls are so clunky and stiff compared to WoW.

  17. #57
    Nobody is going to create the next World of Warcraft by recycling the same decades-old MMO formula. For the MMO scene to 'rejuvenate', developers need to think outside the box. WoW doesn't have to die for that to happen.

  18. #58
    Only the NEETs want a hardcore grinding MMORPG.

    That will kill MMORPGs in the future should they go that route.

    Today's time wants the social element the most.

    Games need to figure out how to host massive amount of people on their servers

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Blizzard have made some bad calls, absolutely. BUT they are still kings when it comes to gameplay. Overwatch is by far the best FPS on the market when it comes to gameplay/controls. You play it more smoothly than CSGO, Battlefield, Apex Legends, CoD or any FPS I ever tried. Same with Diablo 3. The controls are much better than Path of Exile, even though that has some other superior things. And WoW has by far better gameplay/controls than any mmo out there. I love Lord of the Rings online as well, for the story and exploration, but the controls are so clunky and stiff compared to WoW.
    Agree with D3, I just can't stand any other gameplay in this genre then diablos. And I felt GW2 had cool gameplay, but I am so invested in wow that I couldn't really get into it.
    Haven't tried Overwatch, but it looks way too cartoonish for my taste, and CSGO serves all the needs I have from an FPS. Find the gameplay crips as fuck in csgo, it's the perfect competitive game imo.

  20. #60
    Over 9000! Grimbold21's Avatar
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    I enjoy seeing comments about WoW having evolved from.its past iterations like that has been a good thing.

    WoW has evolved to match the existing consumer mentality: i want it and i want it now!

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