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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    this is where i think we can start to agree. i don't like the idea of forced anything. but i will go as far as heavily influencing someone by exhausting every option that I have at my expense. her want to die is equal to my want to see someone come out of their mental dungeon and live a happy life. i would feel compelled to try to stop her up until the very second the needle went in her arm.

    BUT as far as her eating goes, after a week of not eating if you put a plate of her favorite food in front of her and walked away i bet she eats. that would take some serious mental fortitude to push the plate away.
    When you are depressed and so deep you don't eat its not because it's not the right food in front of you. It's because you have no drive or survival instinct to eat. Depression is essentially a chemical imbalance in the brain to make it a crass summarization. The part that tells you to eat just stops and you have no motivation to do so.

    It's usually the opposite that you need mental fortitude to push yourself to eat. You try trough will to overcome the instinct that tells you to eat, which in this case, tells you not to. See it as addiction but in the opposite way.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    You do realize that claiming "it's not right to let people with underdeveloped brains kill themselves" is an opinion and no argument or even fact, so there is no way to prove you wrong?

    What we can discuss is the fact that you are claiming the brain of a 17 year old is underdevelopped. Because there are 17 year olds that wet their bed when they have a dentist apppointment the next day, and there are 17 year old that act as CEO of a multi million dollar company.

    So how can we tell which is which? Quite easy, we make a case to case examination with several professionals to tell if the 17 year old is mature enough to make that decision. And that's what happened here, and as I've already said I tend to rather believe those professionals who could have stopped the whole process anytime they felt it was right over someone who is making hypothetical arguments on the internet without having any actual knowledge of the person or the situation they are in.
    According to you, financial success == brain development. My brain is offended that your brain could think this.

    That's not an argument, you 17-year old brain haver. It's an objective fact that 17 is not the age a human brain gets done developing at. None of your examples mean dick, you crazy weirdo. Durrrrr there's 17 year olds that are CEO's. So what, do we all take the, the kylie jenner CEO test to understand the way to hustle other idiotic teens out of their cash for makeup?
    "I'm not stuck in the trench, I'm maintaining my rating."

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes they do, our law says they do. So suck it up.
    The girl knew what she was doing, it was her choice and you have nothing to do with that. Keep out of her personal life.
    no way. not at the age of 17. no human ever has developed the reasoning skills at that age to make a life ending decision coherently. too many hormones flying around in our bodies at that age.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes they do, our law says they do. So suck it up.
    The girl knew what she was doing, it was her choice and you have nothing to do with that. Keep out of her personal life.
    Seeing that the original article lies, and the doctors didn't actually approve euthanasia for her, I care less about this. The parents and doctors are still idiots for not force feeding her though, but I'm glad it wasn't actually a case of doctors providing euthanasia for underage child that wasn't suffering from actual physical problems.

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    if it was just the one incident i'd be onboard with you. but cause it happened twice i think there is a very real chance you are never getting back together again. i'm sure some people could, but i also think some people just can't.
    And in doubt what do we do, pull the plug? At 17?

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by horbindr View Post
    he does have a point though. starving yourself to death without painkillers isn't the easiest thing to do, even if you are determined.
    guessing they at least gave her painkillers so it's more like a condoned suicide then a assisted suicide.
    You don't really feel pain when you're starving. I've been close to dying due to it when I was sick a few years ago and couldn't eat, you're barely able to keep awake.

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by LiiLoSNK View Post
    Ahaha you said it's her choice. Which means you're fine with some teen (or maybe even younger) going to anime land as long as they made the decision themselves. Sad. Good thing the actual news came out.
    Yeah, news that confirms it was her choice.. I don't get it. She chose to end her life... Are you saying she didn't? Now I'm confused about your position lol.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    She was first molested at 11. How many YEARS is it from that to 17? You must be just trolling at this point.
    IF she started getting help from the day it happen it'd be 6 years which, especially during teenagehood, count fuck all.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    When you are depressed and so deep you don't eat its not because it's not the right food in front of you. It's because you have no drive or survival instinct to eat. Depression is essentially a chemical imbalance in the brain to make it a crass summarization. The part that tells you to eat just stops and you have no motivation to do so.

    It's usually the opposite that you need mental fortitude to push yourself to eat. You try trough will to overcome the instinct that tells you to eat, which in this case, tells you not to. See it as addiction but in the opposite way.
    interesting, and sad. i just wish this would have ended differently. suicide sucks, and i just know there is something out there for everyone going through that kind of depression that can turn it around. firing that willpower back up seems to be the biggest, most consistent issue across the whole spectrum of depression.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Tankabbot View Post
    And in doubt what do we do, pull the plug? At 17?
    no, first you try to help.

    and if that doesn't work for 5 years orso, then you start to think more about quality of life going foward rather than actually fixing the problem.

    i think that's fairly standard when conditions become chronic. now sure suicide is the extreme solution to quality of life problems, but there is no reason not at least bring it up at that point given the context. (are doctors even allowed to bring it up? i think patients have to ask for it themselves.)
    Last edited by horbindr; 2019-06-05 at 12:08 PM.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    If you insist. 17 years is plenty of time to decide you want out; but by all means demand that they stay alive to satisfy your sense of "what is proper".
    Lol no it really is not.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargulf the Happy Husky View Post
    interesting, and sad. i just wish this would have ended differently. suicide sucks, and i just know there is something out there for everyone going through that kind of depression that can turn it around. firing that willpower back up seems to be the biggest, most consistent issue across the whole spectrum of depression.
    Yeah, the most difficult thing is to convince a brain that wants to die that it should fight so it can become better. Since we know if the person gives no effort to becomes better nothing will really help. It's a sad reality. Kinda like how a person who wants to murder you is the only one that can take care of you. It's oddly morbid.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-06-05 at 12:09 PM.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    As i said, it was quite clear that she was getting the prober help for her problems.....but it just did not work. We can't fix everything and being tramatized to a point, where you don't want to live anymore, is proberly one of them.

    But would you really be alright with it, if we just kept her alive 1 year and then let her kill herself? What is really the difference, especially when she has been in this state for 2-3 years. I think any doctor would say, that it is extremly unlikely, that she will get any better before 1 year, so we are pretty much just torturing a girl by keeping her alive against her own will and apperantly that of her mother.

    Again, if we were talking about a 7 year old, i get it, but she is 17. She is old enough to be a parent, to live by herself and be independent. I think she has the right to choose her own demise aswell if that is what she wants.

    Edit: You make it sound like if they just kept her locked up long enough, she would be alright. Sorry to break it to you, but somebody just never get back to alright, always in pain and sadness. At that point, it would be more inhumane to lock them up in a soft wall room, in a straight jacket and force feeding them than helping them die.
    I know that 17 might sound like grown up age to many. But it really isn't.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    No need for personal attacks my friend, we are just discussing things, remember?

    The logic is that when people are in a position, where they don't want to live, there comes a point, where it is more likely that they will cheat themselves out of their medical imprisonment and make suicide, than them actually getting better.

    I also think, in this case, that people really put a huge amount of effort into taking care of this girl, for years even. But you can't do that forever. At some point, you are just beating a dead horse. So the logic is really "Help people and put in alot of effort, but at some point, it is just a waste of resourses and in risk of breaking somebodies rights."
    I will say we're friends, nice to meet you, but I will also not apologize for the personal attacks.

    I mean, I'd agree with your first statement, but she'd already attempted suicide and failed multiple times. So, when you say there comes a point where it is more likely they will cheat themselves out of their mdeical imprisonment and make is suicide, I think you meant less likely and completely improbable.

    Was there effort in taking care of this girl? Well after the new results came up, not fucking really lol. They just let her starve until her organs failed because she didn't want to eat. It was her choice to die, but even people in guantanamo bay are probably like, "wow they just let her die. I mean I reject feeding tubes, but I've been here like 10 years".
    "I'm not stuck in the trench, I'm maintaining my rating."

  15. #355
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tankabbot View Post
    I know that 17 might sound like grown up age to many. But it really isn't.
    I know people, who were parents at 17 and living away from their alcoholic parents. Trust me, it really can be an EXTREMLY adult age in the right circumstanses. I choose to believe, that being molested in early life and raped at 15, rushes you through childhood and slams adulthood into your face.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylaman View Post
    You don't really feel pain when you're starving. I've been close to dying due to it when I was sick a few years ago and couldn't eat, you're barely able to keep awake.
    hard to believe you had no pain management. you obviously would have been hospitalized in such a situation.

    though i admit i think it's more dehydration that causes pain than starvation.

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Yeah, news that confirms it was her choice.. I don't get it. She chose to end her life... Are you saying she didn't? Now I'm confused about your position lol.
    It was always her choice. I said it would be fucked up for the doctors and the parents to sign off on it. Can you not read? I still think it's fucked up they didn't help her, but at least this way i'm 100% right on thinking doctors aren't out their in modern countries killing 17 year old kids because it's "their choice", like you seemed to assume the world worked.
    "I'm not stuck in the trench, I'm maintaining my rating."

  19. #359
    Weird shit regardless. She isnt mentally sane to make such decision but whatevs.
    Your problem is that you’re more concerned about being precisely, factually, and semantically correct than about being morally right.

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Yes they do, our law says they do. So suck it up.
    The girl knew what she was doing, it was her choice and you have nothing to do with that. Keep out of her personal life.
    Ah the joys of 1970s individualism. Enough of that already.

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