Dutch rape victim, 17, uses legal euthanasia to end life

[Tankabbot]

If you insist. 17 years is plenty of time to decide you want out; but by all means demand that they stay alive to satisfy your sense of "what is proper".

Lol no it really is not.

[Kumorii]

interesting, and sad. i just wish this would have ended differently. suicide sucks, and i just know there is something out there for everyone going through that kind of depression that can turn it around. firing that willpower back up seems to be the biggest, most consistent issue across the whole spectrum of depression.

Yeah, the most difficult thing is to convince a brain that wants to die that it should fight so it can become better. Since we know if the person gives no effort to becomes better nothing will really help. It's a sad reality. Kinda like how a person who wants to murder you is the only one that can take care of you. It's oddly morbid.

[Tankabbot]

As i said, it was quite clear that she was getting the prober help for her problems.....but it just did not work. We can't fix everything and being tramatized to a point, where you don't want to live anymore, is proberly one of them.

But would you really be alright with it, if we just kept her alive 1 year and then let her kill herself? What is really the difference, especially when she has been in this state for 2-3 years. I think any doctor would say, that it is extremly unlikely, that she will get any better before 1 year, so we are pretty much just torturing a girl by keeping her alive against her own will and apperantly that of her mother.

Again, if we were talking about a 7 year old, i get it, but she is 17. She is old enough to be a parent, to live by herself and be independent. I think she has the right to choose her own demise aswell if that is what she wants.

Edit: You make it sound like if they just kept her locked up long enough, she would be alright. Sorry to break it to you, but somebody just never get back to alright, always in pain and sadness. At that point, it would be more inhumane to lock them up in a soft wall room, in a straight jacket and force feeding them than helping them die.

I know that 17 might sound like grown up age to many. But it really isn't.

[LiiLoSNK]

No need for personal attacks my friend, we are just discussing things, remember?

The logic is that when people are in a position, where they don't want to live, there comes a point, where it is more likely that they will cheat themselves out of their medical imprisonment and make suicide, than them actually getting better.

I also think, in this case, that people really put a huge amount of effort into taking care of this girl, for years even. But you can't do that forever. At some point, you are just beating a dead horse. So the logic is really "Help people and put in alot of effort, but at some point, it is just a waste of resourses and in risk of breaking somebodies rights."

I will say we're friends, nice to meet you, but I will also not apologize for the personal attacks.

I mean, I'd agree with your first statement, but she'd already attempted suicide and failed multiple times. So, when you say there comes a point where it is more likely they will cheat themselves out of their mdeical imprisonment and make is suicide, I think you meant less likely and completely improbable.

Was there effort in taking care of this girl? Well after the new results came up, not fucking really lol. They just let her starve until her organs failed because she didn't want to eat. It was her choice to die, but even people in guantanamo bay are probably like, "wow they just let her die. I mean I reject feeding tubes, but I've been here like 10 years".

[NED funded]

Fake news apparently.

https://twitter.com/NaomiOhReally/st...672084480?s=19

[Flurryfang]

I know that 17 might sound like grown up age to many. But it really isn't.

I know people, who were parents at 17 and living away from their alcoholic parents. Trust me, it really can be an EXTREMLY adult age in the right circumstanses. I choose to believe, that being molested in early life and raped at 15, rushes you through childhood and slams adulthood into your face.

[horbindr]

You don't really feel pain when you're starving. I've been close to dying due to it when I was sick a few years ago and couldn't eat, you're barely able to keep awake.

hard to believe you had no pain management. you obviously would have been hospitalized in such a situation.

though i admit i think it's more dehydration that causes pain than starvation.

[LiiLoSNK]

Yeah, news that confirms it was her choice.. I don't get it. She chose to end her life... Are you saying she didn't? Now I'm confused about your position lol.

It was always her choice. I said it would be fucked up for the doctors and the parents to sign off on it. Can you not read? I still think it's fucked up they didn't help her, but at least this way i'm 100% right on thinking doctors aren't out their in modern countries killing 17 year old kids because it's "their choice", like you seemed to assume the world worked.

[NED funded]

Weird shit regardless. She isnt mentally sane to make such decision but whatevs.

[Tankabbot]

Yes they do, our law says they do. So suck it up.
The girl knew what she was doing, it was her choice and you have nothing to do with that. Keep out of her personal life.

Ah the joys of 1970s individualism. Enough of that already.

[Phon]

hard to believe you had no pain management. you obviously would have been hospitalized in such a situation.

though i admit i think it's more dehydration that causes pain than starvation.

I was hospitalized. I stopped feeling hungry after about 3 days and it didn't hurt at all and the more time that passed the less I was able to stay awake. I lost 20 kg.

[zorkuus]

Weird shit regardless. She isnt mentally sane to make such decision but whatevs.

How do you determine that?

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Ah the joys of 1970s individualism. Enough of that already.

What are you, a commie?

[Tankabbot]

I know people, who were parents at 17 and living away from their alcoholic parents. Trust me, it really can be an EXTREMLY adult age in the right circumstanses. I choose to believe, that being molested in early life and raped at 15, rushes you through childhood and slams adulthood into your face.

That doesn't mean they're adults. It means they're kids who drink and have children.

[Flurryfang]

I will say we're friends, nice to meet you, but I will also not apologize for the personal attacks.

I mean, I'd agree with your first statement, but she'd already attempted suicide and failed multiple times. So, when you say there comes a point where it is more likely they will cheat themselves out of their mdeical imprisonment and make is suicide, I think you meant less likely and completely improbable.

Was there effort in taking care of this girl? Well after the new results came up, not fucking really lol. They just let her starve until her organs failed because she didn't want to eat. It was her choice to die, but even people in guantanamo bay are probably like, "wow they just let her die. I mean I reject feeding tubes, but I've been here like 10 years".

Personal attacks are not allowed in here, and its not really helping with your arguement. Either of us can be hitler, but if you can come up with a good enough counter arguement, than you stand at defeat.

With that arguement, you make it sound like failing at suicide makes you less likely to do again, which is just not the case. Sure, some do it once in the depths of depression, but this girl have tried repeatedly to kill herself, so i don't think it is an impulsive action anymore.

We are all different. There are some people, who have been sentenced to life in prison, who still want to live and are ready to fight for it, while others can live a good life, yet want to die every single day. Just because somebody got through a bad experience, does not mean that this girl would, atleast not without a very long period of horrible life.

I think it boils down to a question about how much life is worth for a person. Like, would keeping this girl alive with force for 15 years, be alright if she then had 10 years of good life? Does the bad outweight the good? Who is even to say, that the good is so good compared to the bad?

There is something called Screamers Syndrome, a psycosis where you hear screaming in your head from you wake up to you fall asleep. People can get better, but after living with it for years, people just never become the same again, having to live an extremly medicated life with fraglile nerves. Is that life worth the pain that came before? Serious discussion point, because im curious.

[Tankabbot]

How do you determine that?

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What are you, a commie?

I thought commies were extinct. Did McCarthy not kill them all.

[Ghostpanther]

no way. not at the age of 17. no human ever has developed the reasoning skills at that age to make a life ending decision coherently. too many hormones flying around in our bodies at that age.

Agreed. It is a sad story and in no way do I support such a law. But at the same time, I do not live there, so the Dutch can do what they want.

[Jin]

Reading some posts, it might be a bad idea to say this but here it goes;

I have, last year, asked my doctor to help me end my life, he did not sign off on it because he doesnt know me good enough, and my age (34) is to young for him to participate in.

It was a huge blow for me because I decided enough is enough. I have fibromyalgia and IBS and a few mental illnesses, put them all together and you got a cocktail of being severely depress and void of any ''normal'' life. I am suffering from intense pains every day, all day, to the point it means I have no satisfaction no joy at all. What is the point of living if the only thing you are doing is suffering? Live to suffer? That is not ''living''.

Since I have been fighting this for more then 20 years, I also didn't just give up, I've done so many things in my life to help, improve this, but at some point, you hit a wall, or the wall hits you because your illnesses arent staying idle either.

I was pointed towards a special organisation that helps people like me, however you have to meet some criteria's to be getting the help to end your life, and it is very strict, since you got to follow the law or the doctor who gives the final shot is guilty of murder.

So I have to get more treatment, i had my first new treatment a few months ago, ketamine drip for 7-8 hours. It worked! For one day.. then the pain got back rather quick and withing 2 weeks it was back to where it was.

Now we are a few months later and the pain just gets worse every day, it is a pain you cannot even describe to people since you cannot see it from the outside.

Next plan is to get another drip of the Ketamine, 18th of this month in the hopes it might catch on. If that does not help, there are still a few more options to try, hopefully there is something out there that can block the pain signals from reaching my brain.

I understand this girl completely, and find it brave that she ended it, she is no longer in pain of being ''alive'' though she is a lot more intense t hen me, i dont starve myself or do a suicide attempt(s). I want to go out with dignity, I fought hard for decades, I want to die in peace, her way was not really in peace.. not sure how or why they did it like this but thats just hindsight.

ANywho take this as it is.. to add wisdom or respect to this situation that people are in, or your disgust of how people '' dont fight'' or just '' give up '', the latter, dont bother, 99% of the people who do this have fought hard every single second of every day they are awake.

[Flurryfang]

That doesn't mean they're adults. It means they're kids who drink and have children.

They act like adults, they do what adults do and act more grown up than people in their mid twenties. Aside from age, what makes them kids when everything is adult?

I get that we have to have laws follow age, as we have to have something commen to follow, but people develop in very different speeds and some late teens can make decisions, that some adults can't comprehend.

[NED funded]

How do you determine that?

She has PTSD from being raped.

[Flurryfang]

Reading some posts, it might be a bad idea to say this but here it goes;

I have, last year, asked my doctor to help me end my life, he did not sign off on it because he doesnt know me good enough, and my age (34) is to young for him to participate in.

It was a huge blow for me because I decided enough is enough. I have fibromyalgia and IBS and a few mental illnesses, put them all together and you got a cocktail of being severely depress and void of any ''normal'' life. I am suffering from intense pains every day, all day, to the point it means I have no satisfaction no joy at all. What is the point of living if the only thing you are doing is suffering? Live to suffer? That is not ''living''.

Since I have been fighting this for more then 20 years, I also didn't just give up, I've done so many things in my life to help, improve this, but at some point, you hit a wall, or the wall hits you because your illnesses arent staying idle either.

I was pointed towards a special organisation that helps people like me, however you have to meet some criteria's to be getting the help to end your life, and it is very strict, since you got to follow the law or the doctor who gives the final shot is guilty of murder.

So I have to get more treatment, i had my first new treatment a few months ago, ketamine drip for 7-8 hours. It worked! For one day.. then the pain got back rather quick and withing 2 weeks it was back to where it was.

Now we are a few months later and the pain just gets worse every day, it is a pain you cannot even describe to people since you cannot see it from the outside.

Next plan is to get another drip of the Ketamine, 18th of this month in the hopes it might catch on. If that does not help, there are still a few more options to try, hopefully there is something out there that can block the pain signals from reaching my brain.

I understand this girl completely, and find it brave that she ended it, she is no longer in pain of being ''alive'' though she is a lot more intense t hen me, i dont starve myself or do a suicide attempt(s). I want to go out with dignity, I fought hard for decades, I want to die in peace, her way was not really in peace.. not sure how or why they did it like this but thats just hindsight.

ANywho take this as it is.. to add wisdom or respect to this situation that people are in, or your disgust of how people '' dont fight'' or just '' give up '', the latter, dont bother, 99% of the people who do this have fought hard every single second of every day they are awake.

Wow.... Thank you for sharing your story, it really leaves quite an impression.

It really does put her situation into perspective. Some times life is not as enjoyable as other see it. Sometimes it really can just be one long fight, that seem to have no end.

I hope you find a solution for your situation, in one way or another.