Can Sylvanas rightfully remain Warchief?

[matrix123mko]

Can we please finally have Forsaken abandon the Horde and be a separate faction?

What about Tauren abandoning the Horde?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Can we please finally have Forsaken abandon the Horde and be a separate faction?

We 've already encountered a separate faction of undead that were malicious and sinister in nature.

In the beginning they were a force to be reckoned with , but it ultimately didn 't work out for them in the end.

[Verdugo]

We 've already encountered a separate faction of undead that were malicious and sinister in nature.

In the beginning they were a force to be reckoned with , but it ultimately didn 't work out for them in the end.

Only because they were not playable.

[matrix123mko]

In fact, Sylvanas can't be rightful warchief because Garrosh is dead. However, if you look carefully, you can find the real warchief:

Thrall > Garrosh > AU Grommash > Geya'rah

[THEORACLE64]

Sure there has been a little friction as of late, but the Horde has churned through too many Warchieves.

Is there any future path where Sylvanas can remain Warchief? From where the story is at as we know it right now. Is there any story arc that you can think of where Sylvanas can rightfully remain Warchief that can be considered remotely plausible? Or is it a 100% certainty that she will be dethroned?

Nope and she won’t.

[Super Dickmann]

In fact, Sylvanas can't be rightful warchief because Garrosh is dead. However, if you look carefully, you can find the real warchief:

Thrall > Garrosh > AU Grommash > Geya'rah

You're not spinning bullshit hard enough, let me show you how to spin. The answer is that the playable Horde lacked legitimacy for all of WoD and Legion because Garrosh was overthrown and the chosen leader of his successor organisation - Grom, was not part of the main Horde. However, Grom appointed Geya'rah as a successor and Geya'rah swore allegiance to Sylvanas, making the playable Horde legitimate again as of the end of 8.0. Up until then we were playing as a bunch of people in a separate organisation called the Horde but not the successor of the original WC1 Horde.

Blackhand -> Orgrim (legitimate/Mak'gora) -> Thrall (legitimate/chosen) -> Garrosh (legitimate/chosen) -x-> Vol'jin (illegitimate/coup) -x-> Sylvanas (legitimate within the playable Horde but illegitimate by default) until...

Blackhand -> Orgrim (legitimate/Mak'gora) -> Thrall (legitimate/chosen) -> Garrosh (legitimate/chosen) -> Grom (by making himself, the True Horde Warchief subservient to the Iron Horde Warchief) -> Geyarah (legitimate/succession) -> Sylvanas (by making the Iron Horde/Mag'har subservient to the playable Horde Warchief. Legitimacy is returned).

[Candy Cough]

She has the will of the people, so she can in theory end up killing the rebellion to get a twist

Lorthemar says he doesent know if his people will follow him into the rebellion and the sunreavers seem pissed
The earth mother is literally empowering tauren warriors and catapults on the field
Forsaken will stay loyal
Goblins will stay loyal
Young orcs might support her, seeing as saurfang is a traitor
Talanji said she refused to repay sylvanas in treachery
Geyarah said she supports Sylvanas

The nightborne has stated they are neutral

That leaves, the Trolls, the pandaren and the high mountain tauren which are all non factors.

[Mehrunes]

You're not spinning bullshit hard enough, let me show you how to spin. The answer is that the playable Horde lacked legitimacy for all of WoD and Legion because Garrosh was overthrown and the chosen leader of his successor organisation - Grom, was not part of the main Horde. However, Grom appointed Geya'rah as a successor and Geya'rah swore allegiance to Sylvanas, making the playable Horde legitimate again as of the end of 8.0. Up until then we were playing as a bunch of people in a separate organisation called the Horde but not the successor of the original WC1 Horde.

Blackhand -> Orgrim (legitimate/Mak'gora) -> Thrall (legitimate/chosen) -> Garrosh (legitimate/chosen) -x-> Vol'jin (illegitimate/coup) -x-> Sylvanas (legitimate within the playable Horde but illegitimate by default) until...

Blackhand -> Orgrim (legitimate/Mak'gora) -> Thrall (legitimate/chosen) -> Garrosh (legitimate/chosen) -> Grom (by making himself, the True Horde Warchief subservient to the Iron Horde Warchief) -> Geyarah (legitimate/succession) -> Sylvanas (by making the Iron Horde/Mag'har subservient to the playable Horde Warchief. Legitimacy is returned).

The issue arises when you remember that Garrosh first kicked out the lesser races as he said in the 5.4 patch trailer, making them no longer bound to him (though that doesn't negate the treason some of them, Trolls, Tauren and Blood Elves especially, committed against him prior to that) and then made his own True Horde anyway. Why he needed to do both of these things when each of them makes the other one redundant I still do not know.

[Super Dickmann]

Was Geyarah made Warchief?

Doesn't really matter in the same sense that Garrosh not passing Warchie of the true Horde over to Grom doesn't matter. By pledging teh blood oath to him he made himself and his people subservient to Grom. In turn, Grom by passing leadership to Geyarah made her the highest instance of the Mag'har, so when she pledges to Sylvanas, so does that OG Horde
@Mehrunes

I think the True Horde is more of a distinguishing label than a separate organisation, since we also see it used in lower case. Garrosh kicked out the other races at which point they joined together in a group that they call the Horde and that is organisationally identical in how it works to the Horde, but isn't a successor of the WC1 Horde. It's true that by 5.4 they aren't traitors anymore since they got kicked out, but that's mostly moot since while they're not traitors, they're also not members of the OG Horde.

[Super Dickmann]

I guess I don't remember it well, I thought she ordered her to lead the Mag'har going to Azeroth, not to take over the leadership of the Mag'har.
I really have to replay that scenario, the first time I let the sense of urgency dictate the pace I played and I seem to have missed nuances left and right.

It's a de facto passing of the torch, since both she and Grom know that this is the end for him. This is all legalistic fuckery that no one outside these forums parsing who is and isn't a traitor cares about, but it's fun nonetheless.

The scenario has some neat tidbits in the environment and what looks like throwaway dialogue, such as the bit with the botani tying in with how the land has vanished or what you can piece together from what we on before. The writing is hamhanded and on the nose, but as a conflict and sequence I'm getting more and more fond of it as time goes on.

[Fahrenheit]

No. Not sure if she’ll be dead come 9.0, but I’m certain she won’t be the Warchief.

[Mehrunes]

I think the True Horde is more of a distinguishing label than a separate organisation, since we also see it used in lower case. Garrosh kicked out the other races at which point they joined together in a group that they call the Horde and that is organisationally identical in how it works to the Horde, but isn't a successor of the WC1 Horde. It's true that by 5.4 they aren't traitors anymore since they got kicked out, but that's mostly moot since while they're not traitors, they're also not members of the OG Horde.

Yeah, but that begs the question what happens when one Horde conquers another one? Does the victor gain legitimacy that way? Given the amount of Hordes that popped up throughout the years, it's weird (well, inasmuch Blizzard's near-infinite laziness is weird) that we don't know even such basics of Horde's politics.

[Super Dickmann]

Yeah, but that begs the question what happens when one Horde conquers another one? Does the victor gain legitimacy that way? Given the amount of Hordes that popped up throughout the years, it's weird (well, inasmuch Blizzard's near-infinite laziness is weird) that we don't know even such basics of Horde's politics.

The other off-shoot Hordes are illegitimate by default and thus irrelevant since they all stem outside of the OG Horde. Rend broke off from Doomhammer without being chosen or winning Mak'gora, Kargath and Ner'zhul were on other planets...Actually, @Wildberry Can you toss up that flowchart of Hordes?

[Nebron]

There is literally no good ending for Sylvanas left.

We know that it's Azshara who releases N'zoth.
If Sylvanas gets possessed - it'd be lame as fuck.
If she stays as a Warchief - then entire plotline of other leaders conspiring has no meaning. And that would be dumb as fuck too.
We have been told couple of times that Sylvanas won't become a Garrosh 2.0. So it's not an option too.
If she sacrificies herself for the people - that's retarded too, because - why to burn the thounsands of innocents and what about her recent genocidal nature in the first place?

There is no proper ending for that character - it will be lame as hell. That's how Blizzard deals with their legacy nowadays. We need a complex villian - okay, so let's pick Sylvanas then, give her actions no motivations for the entire journey of her character - until the very end obviously, when we explain to everybody what was that all about.

This writing isn't bad.
It's madness.

[Specialka]

Yeah, I was so disappointed by her.

I found her be picked by Vol'jin to be the Warchief really cool. The next scene where she say :"Who will help me avenge him?" I found very cool too. But oh man, wtf was that in Stormheim? Why did she betray everything she did like a few days back?

Really disappointed.

[Verdugo]

Yeah, I was so disappointed by her.

I found her be picked by Vol'jin to be the Warchief really cool. The next scene where she say :"Who will help me avenge him?" I found very cool too. But oh man, wtf was that in Stormheim? Why did she betray everything she did like a few days back?

Really disappointed.

Its Alex trying to get revenge on Kosak, since he was the only one who was writing Garrosh as redeemable and Kosak turned him into raid boss.

Dont get convinced that this is supposed to be great story. This entire travesty is an act of petty revenge.

[Mehrunes]

The other off-shoot Hordes are illegitimate by default and thus irrelevant since they all stem outside of the OG Horde. Rend broke off from Doomhammer without being chosen or winning Mak'gora, Kargath and Ner'zhul were on other planets...Actually, @Wildberry Can you toss up that flowchart of Hordes?

But in this case we have people who were no longer bound to the Horde as Garrosh kicked them out. What prohibited them from creating their own, IP laws?

[Super Dickmann]

But in this case we have people who were no longer bound to the Horde as Garrosh kicked them out. What prohibited them from creating their own, IP laws?

Garrosh's elite team of goblin lawyers would sue them to death. Sylvanas has raised them from their graves so that she can repeat this feat.

But no, the point isn't that they can't make their own Horde. They demonstrably do. It's just that this is an organization called the Horde and functioning identical to the Horde, but it's a separate entity, not a continuation of the original Horde.

[matrix123mko]

Was Geyarah made Warchief?

Yes, she was chosen to lead the Mag'har.

[Feanoro]

If she sacrificies herself for the people - that's retarded too, because - why to burn the thounsands of innocents and what about her recent genocidal nature in the first place?

Sarah Kerrigan.