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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost10491 View Post
    The bonus of the beast within is nice, but requires you to choose talents that people may not want to pick.
    After some thought. I changed my mind here.
    I've re-worked the talent to be less dependent on Dire Frenzy use and to focus more on your pet empowering you when simply attacking an enemy.
    Compared to the old version where it was only Dire Frenzy attacks that could do this.
    The rate at of which you gain this effect/proc should still remain about the same as with the original approach. Just that now, it does not rely solely on Dire Frenzy.

    What I still haven't decided is if the effects you can get from this talent should always proc both at the same time or if you sometimes should get the proc of guaranteed critical hits on instant damage attacks and sometimes it should proc the second effect where your abilities that deal periodic damage would last longer etc.

    Thoughts? Should it always proc both effects so that you can choose yourself what you want to use it on or should it be able to proc them individually?

    Note: Considering how Explosive Shot is designed, the talent "The Beast Within" would always affect it no matter the proc. As Explosive Shot deals both instant damage as well as periodic damage.
    Last edited by F Rm; 2019-06-15 at 03:42 PM.

  2. #62
    While I do adore old Survival and would love to see its return, it doesn't make much logical sense, to me, to find a way to incorporate a pet into this type of spell/DoT based ranged spec when nothing about the fantasy really ties ones in. We could, at the very least, see an Animal Companion talent that, if chosen, allows you to summon a pet from your stable if you so happen to want one (at the expense of your own damage).

    But, IMO, pet's strictly belong to a spec like BM--its previous iterations I too have loved. To (re)introduce something like Dire Frenzy or The Beast Within already begins to steer too far in that direction. This type of Survival should strictly be the hunter and his bow alone, manipulating his surroundings (as a naturalist would) and dealing various forms of elemental damage with his tricked-out arrows.

    Just poking fun here. Imagine having a quiver like Hawkeye's, which would fix a lethal device to the arrow like a small TnT for Explosive Shot, or a splitting device for Multishot. Then, a waist pouch or bag for your smaller effects, like traps or poisons.
    Last edited by Chipnuts; 2019-06-21 at 09:06 PM.

  3. #63
    Sorry, long reply following below

    Quote Originally Posted by Chipnuts View Post
    While I do adore old Survival and would love to see its return, it doesn't make much logical sense, to me, to find a way to incorporate a pet into this type of spell/DoT based ranged spec when nothing about the fantasy really ties ones in.
    I'd say that this depends a lot on who you ask. Now, I do get your point of view. A spec that to it's core is about ranged attacks in the form of periodic damage effects, why add in elements of pet enhancement/involvement?

    You're right, at first I did think about making this essentially the same as MM when it comes to pet involvement. Where, you can have a pet active while playing as it, but the spec would not promote the style of play in any way. Essentially, your pet would be sort of a passive DoT that's there attacking enemies, and that would be it.

    In the end, I chose to make this spec to work, sort of like that. Baseline, your pet will be just like the above, a passive DoT that you don't need to focus on pretty much at all. But, I also chose to include optional talent choices(as in, choices that you don't have to pick if you don't want to), choices that to varying degree involved your pet. Now, the only talent that really affects how you play, that is about you focusing on pet control, that's the Dire Frenzy-talent.

    When it comes to Dire Frenzy as a talent, yes, in the past(Legion), this was a core mechanic of the BM spec. This is no longer the case though.
    My main decision to include a version of Dire Frenzy, was to allow for a change of pace compared to if you stuck with the baseline abilities that included Quick Shot. Quite a few players are very fond of the original fantasy of the Hunter class, that's essentially a ranged(weapon) class that also included pet management to varying degree.

    Again, picking Dire Frenzy will ofc work when you engage in EG-content. But the main focus of it was to allow for more pet control while in the open world, doing quests or leveling up. And, as for the other talent choices that somehow involves your pet: Alpha Predator, Ferocious Inspiration, The Beast Within as well as Rapid Recuperation.
    These are all essentially passive effects that you don't really have to pay much attention to, OR, they are the case of your pet buffs/empowers you in some way.
    This currently, is very different from BM, as BM is mostly about you buffing your pet or summoning additional beasts, or about picking a multitude of stand-alone abilities that have no ties to anything else that you do(basic, use-when-ready abilities).

    Dire Frenzy - the only talent that mechanically changes how you play, that also involves you controlling your pet.

    Alpha Predator - entirely passive, it affects what you do about as much as Basic Attacks for pets does.(Bite, Claw, Smack)

    Ferocious Inspiration - an extension of the previous two talents. Entirely passive. Mostly there for those that like to focus just a little on pets. In itself, this talent is only about AoE which is also not your main focus in the end-game scene.

    The Beast Within - works VERY different from what that talent used to be about when specific to BM. Back then it involved Bestial Wrath so that you as well gained the bonus damage component, not just your pet.
    Now, why did I choose to design it like I did? We have seen a ton of talents/passive effects that were essentially this: Your Auto Attacks have a X% chance to...

    I wanted to move away from that just a little. Attaching the effect that this talent gives to one/or a few special attacks which you can sort of control yourself...If you ask me, this is much more fun than simply having a passive effect added to your auto attacks. Because, you have no real way to manually control the effect in that case. The actual effect you get from this talent, and how often it would proc, will essentially be the same(or even more frequent) as if instead, it involved your Auto Attacks. As for the name of the talent, it doesn't actually need to carry that specific name, in case that's the problem.

    Rapid Recuperation - does not really have much to do with your pet and how you focus on what your pet does. This talent is purely meant to be a change of pace that involved your CD management.
    Many players back when we had the ranged Survival spec, loved that it was very consistent and had little involvement of Burst-windows. This talent is meant to bring that feeling back. It's there for those that don't want to focus on optimal timing of the main CD - Rapid Fire. With this talent, I expect your Rapid Fire to come off CD about every minute to maybe every 1min 15sec(baseline, it has a 2min CD).


    I guess the TL;DR of it all is: The core fantasy of the Hunter class have always been, you fight from afar with a ranged weapon and you have a pet by your side to aid you in combat. With this, we nowadays ofc have some outlying niches depending on what spec you choose. BM is now more focused on pet involvement/management. MM is essentially the true Ranger-spec where nothing you do promotes the use of pets, despite you being able to have an active pet. The current Melee-Survival is meant to have the niche of melee-combat(despite this no longer being as apparent as it was in Legion), but you still have elements of pet-management/involvement. Heck, one of the spec's core abilities is purely focused on pet damage.
    So, for a 4th spec option, I wanted to stick with the core fantasy of the class and what it has always been. You are the ranged class that fight with a weapon, and you're aided by a loyal companion when engage in combat.
    Again, keep in mind that anything that enhances pet involvement/management with this spec, is purely optional through talent choices.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chipnuts View Post
    Imagine having a quiver like Hawkeye's, which would fix a lethal device to the arrow like a small TnT for Explosive Shot, or a splitting device for Multishot. Then, a waist pouch or bag for your smaller effects, like traps or poisons.
    I'm sure we could come up with ways to design quivers to show a Warcraft-inspired design similar to that. Although, I doubt they would actually do something like this as it would take a lot of time to create/implement, but the actual visual(mainly the one involving the quiver), will not be that apparent. Many players probably wouldn't even notice it.

    But yeah, I wouldn't mind a Warcraft-inspired design for things like this. I've wanted Ammo pouches or Quivers for a long time in WoW. Or...for anyone who uses the Spearlauncher model from BRF or similar, you could have a leather strap attached to your back with visible spare projectiles(Spears, intended for the launcher).


    Last words: Again, I get why you wouldn't want pet involvement for a spec like this one. And originally, I did think of ways to have this focus. But in the end I chose to go more towards the core fantasy of the class. And what it's about. Which coincidentally also falls closer to what was said in the latest Dev Insight-video.
    In the past, this spec wasn't only about the ranged abilities, it had several ways/talents that focused on your pet.
    Last edited by F Rm; 2019-06-22 at 12:27 PM.

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