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  1. #1

    Progression from Character to Account wide ( And travelling )

    Shortly, regardless the problems that wow could have in terms of content, balance and so on, I find that there are 2 major problems which could be addressed:

    - Character progression ( in terms of reputations and expansion "feature", which is azerite power for BFA ).
    - Time spent travelling.

    I don't know how many of you tried to monitor the time spent during stuff like

    • Catching up Azerite power with a different character.
    • Farming reputations with more than a character.
    • The time needed to join a raid or a dungeon ( since there's no way to join it if not by enter it directly ).
    • The time spent flying from point A to point B ( not the one spent by walking ).

    But it's insane, and not something which is related to the game.

    I started with UO, then Neocron, then WoW, then Gw2, Then Eso, Then WoW again ( just to let you know what I played ), and it was on GW2 that I happened to see probably the best compromise in terms of time saving:

    Everything which is meant to be a reputation or an "expansion feature" is Account shared

    Shortly, imagine that whatever the character you play, you will still pursue the same Azerite grind lvl ( same goes with reputations, even though I realize that by doing the story arc with x different characters could exploit the rep cap, but it something which could be simply solved by setting a cap to reward from story quest till honored or something similar ).

    You will be encouraged to play an alt, since whatever you will do, you still will look forward a goal which is now account shared.

    Teleport from Point A to point B instant, from wherever you are

    Imagine that flypaths are teleports, and you can teleport on them regardless the zone you are in.
    Obviously you will have to walk to where you want to go then, but you will save all the time spent flying, which is time lost.

    Time not spent playing the game.

    That's it.

    Anyone else happened to measure the time wasted on travels and catching up?
    Considerations on different systems?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Shortly, regardless the problems that wow could have in terms of content, balance and so on, I find that there are 2 major problems which could be addressed:

    - Character progression ( in terms of reputations and expansion "feature", which is azerite power for BFA ).
    - Time spent travelling.

    I don't know how many of you tried to monitor the time spent during stuff like

    • Catching up Azerite power with a different character.
    • Farming reputations with more than a character.
    • The time needed to join a raid or a dungeon ( since there's no way to join it if not by enter it directly ).
    • The time spent flying from point A to point B ( not the one spent by walking ).

    But it's insane, and not something which is related to the game.

    I started with UO, then Neocron, then WoW, then Gw2, Then Eso, Then WoW again ( just to let you know what I played ), and it was on GW2 that I happened to see probably the best compromise in terms of time saving:

    Everything which is meant to be a reputation or an "expansion feature" is Account shared

    Shortly, imagine that whatever the character you play, you will still pursue the same Azerite grind lvl ( same goes with reputations, even though I realize that by doing the story arc with x different characters could exploit the rep cap, but it something which could be simply solved by setting a cap to reward from story quest till honored or something similar ).

    You will be encouraged to play an alt, since whatever you will do, you still will look forward a goal which is now account shared.

    Teleport from Point A to point B instant, from wherever you are

    Imagine that flypaths are teleports, and you can teleport on them regardless the zone you are in.
    Obviously you will have to walk to where you want to go then, but you will save all the time spent flying, which is time lost.

    Time not spent playing the game.

    That's it.

    Anyone else happened to measure the time wasted on travels and catching up?
    Considerations on different systems?
    You sound like a severly spoiled child. I can only imagine that everyone else in the car wants to rip your throat out when you start complaining that its taking you too long to drive down to the store, or that walking from the car to inside the store takes too much effort, or that its such a waste of time to have to go from your room to the dinner table instead of having it all served to you on a silver fucking platter.

    Getting around is a fact of life, no matter if its a game or IRL. And no game would ever survive just porting you from point to point to point because it would be as boring as watching snails bone. Next time please think before you whine, if its even possible for you to do so.
    Never believe you have seen the peak of human stupidity and ignorance, or you will constantly be surprised by the new levels the reach almost every day

  3. #3
    Oh you are gonna love classsic (*sarcastic evil laugh*)
    When you complain about time spent you shouldnt play a mmo then which are all about spending as much time as possible in them.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorbalt View Post
    You sound like a severly spoiled child. I can only imagine that everyone else in the car wants to rip your throat out when you start complaining that its taking you too long to drive down to the store, or that walking from the car to inside the store takes too much effort, or that its such a waste of time to have to go from your room to the dinner table instead of having it all served to you on a silver fucking platter.

    Getting around is a fact of life, no matter if its a game or IRL. And no game would ever survive just porting you from point to point to point because it would be as boring as watching snails bone. Next time please think before you whine, if its even possible for you to do so.
    Attack apart, I can enjoy a trip with friends while i don't find interesting seeing my character fly from path to path, because it's not fun nor i am playing. And let's not even consider the fact that you can already join dungeons/raids from a tool instead of walking.

    Also don't even know why you have to compare real life to a video game meant to entertain.
    But since it's a forum I can say that I am already got used to.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmamass View Post
    Oh you are gonna love classsic (*sarcastic evil laugh*)
    When you complain about time spent you shouldnt play a mmo then which are all about spending as much time as possible in them.
    I enjoyed vanilla, even with the endless time sink, but I don't have any plan for classic since as you said it wouldn't be worth my time.
    Last edited by Gatto; 2019-06-06 at 07:25 PM.

  5. #5
    I have the impression blizzard never will make reputations account wide. And if, they will replace it with a system which still is not accountwide, but needs the same time.

    At the end they sell gametime. And players having to refarm reputations for different factions and chars makes them a lot of time /played.

  6. #6
    Unfortunately the only thing you can do if you think ESO / GW2 are better than WOW is play those games and stop giving Blizzard your money. Vote with your wallet.

    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    At the end they sell gametime. And players having to refarm reputations for different factions and chars makes them a lot of time /played.
    Sub is paid per month, not per hour played. They even removed the "per hour" mode form China, which was the only place having it earlier on. From the financial standpoint makes no difference if a player spend 1h per month or 100h, as long as they decided to pay the sub. Still doesn't prevent Blizzard from using various means of content padding so they can show nice shareholder report with number of "active users".

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Sub is paid per month, not per hour played. They even removed the "per hour" mode form China, which was the only place having it earlier on. From the financial standpoint makes no difference if a player spend 1h per month or 100h, as long as they decided to pay the sub. Still doesn't prevent Blizzard from using various means of content padding so they can show nice shareholder report with number of "active users".
    Oh yeah because it is no difference if you play all content in one month or two months?

    Sure it makes a difference. If you need two months to level reputations up for one char, you will play more months than if it was account wide.

    And yes, it is _only_ and _entirely_ about that why blizzard did not make reputations account wide yet.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    Oh yeah because it is no difference if you play all content in one month or two months?
    That's why they don't release all content at once but every patch is released "in stages". So people don't unsub too quickly. Or have a reason to pop in next month because something (for example allied race or next wing of lfr) was added.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Shortly, regardless the problems that wow could have in terms of content, balance and so on, I find that there are 2 major problems which could be addressed:

    - Character progression ( in terms of reputations and expansion "feature", which is azerite power for BFA ).
    - Time spent travelling.

    I don't know how many of you tried to monitor the time spent during stuff like

    • Catching up Azerite power with a different character.
    • Farming reputations with more than a character.
    • The time needed to join a raid or a dungeon ( since there's no way to join it if not by enter it directly ).
    • The time spent flying from point A to point B ( not the one spent by walking ).

    But it's insane, and not something which is related to the game.

    I started with UO, then Neocron, then WoW, then Gw2, Then Eso, Then WoW again ( just to let you know what I played ), and it was on GW2 that I happened to see probably the best compromise in terms of time saving:

    Everything which is meant to be a reputation or an "expansion feature" is Account shared

    Shortly, imagine that whatever the character you play, you will still pursue the same Azerite grind lvl ( same goes with reputations, even though I realize that by doing the story arc with x different characters could exploit the rep cap, but it something which could be simply solved by setting a cap to reward from story quest till honored or something similar ).

    You will be encouraged to play an alt, since whatever you will do, you still will look forward a goal which is now account shared.

    Teleport from Point A to point B instant, from wherever you are

    Imagine that flypaths are teleports, and you can teleport on them regardless the zone you are in.
    Obviously you will have to walk to where you want to go then, but you will save all the time spent flying, which is time lost.

    Time not spent playing the game.

    That's it.

    Anyone else happened to measure the time wasted on travels and catching up?
    Considerations on different systems?
    No thanks /10char

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    That's why they don't release all content at once but every patch is released "in stages". So people don't unsub too quickly. Or have a reason to pop in next month because something (for example allied race or next wing of lfr) was added.
    Well, that, and having to do all the reputation grind again with at least one alt.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendark's Avatar
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    Rep should have been made account wide a long time ago.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer Lazuli's Avatar
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    Make everything account wide in WoW and then there is literally 0 content. Blizz banks on people pointlessly running alts through the same boring grind they did on their main, cuz there is nothing to do in the game. It's just not designed like that, because of vertical progression which is a thing of the past but Blizzard never got the memo. It works in modern MMO because there is content other than rep grind and gear grind with scaling rewards so all content is relevant.

    Why you think their level scaling was half-assed and only goes up to certain thresholds. They are too scared to fully commit to what the other MMOs are doing because their playerbase are drones thirsty for endless grind.
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  13. #13
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    Rep should have been made account wide a long time ago.
    Just to be the odd one out I think reputation accrues to your character. The Grand Poobah of The Fraternal Order of Water Buffaloes doesn't know your alt from Barney Rubble.

    A neat mechanic would be for your main to "introduce" your alt to the Poobah through a letter or something which would automatically raise them to Friendly if the main was less than Exalted or even to Honored if your main was exalted. But that's entirely too RPG for the game as it is today.

    Not a fan of account wide reputation. You might as well allow characters to become and do anything instantly so that no one needs an alt.
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  14. #14
    Over 9000! rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gatto View Post
    Anyone else happened to measure the time wasted on travels and catching up?
    Reputation that matters is account wide. Like Champions of Azeroth. The reputation requirements for the neck are shared account wide while the vendor items are not. You don't seem to have played the game very much or with any alts if you think catching up on Azerite takes a lot of time. If you are actively playing it it is easy to gain ranks. Blizzard is even giving characters in 8.2 a bump up to I believe 35.

    Flying also isn't much of an issue in newer content. Flight paths don't take that long and the flight master whistle makes it easy. There are also several perks to make hearthing faster. Sure instant travel would make things faster but it is not needed at all. Instant travel isn't always a good thing. There are portals to get you a lot of places quick for the old world. About the only thing they need to make travel quicker is to old instances and portals at the end of each instance.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    Make everything account wide in WoW and then there is literally 0 content. Blizz banks on people pointlessly running alts through the same boring grind they did on their main, cuz there is nothing to do in the game.
    So it's not a content problem, since there's no content to begin with ( and as you admit, they banks on people running alts ).
    Or maybe your point is simply from "their perspective" ( I can't tell, since the first part seems from a player perspective, but the second is definitely from blizz perspective ).

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Reputation that matters is account wide. Like Champions of Azeroth. The reputation requirements for the neck are shared account wide while the vendor items are not. You don't seem to have played the game very much or with any alts if you think catching up on Azerite takes a lot of time. If you are actively playing it it is easy to gain ranks. Blizzard is even giving characters in 8.2 a bump up to I believe 35.

    Flying also isn't much of an issue in newer content. Flight paths don't take that long and the flight master whistle makes it easy. There are also several perks to make hearthing faster. Sure instant travel would make things faster but it is not needed at all. Instant travel isn't always a good thing. There are portals to get you a lot of places quick for the old world. About the only thing they need to make travel quicker is to old instances and portals at the end of each instance.
    I tried some alts, and i had to catch up while it should have been way fairer to do it once and for all.

    "If you play actively it's easy to gain ranks"

    Again ( I mean, doing again the same stuff not to have fun, but to unlock azerite stuff to empower neck to unlock traits, and esseces sockets in the future ).

    The worst case scenario I found was trying to play an alt only by doing RBG.
    1h per day ( let's say 1 win and 1 loss, and let's hope that the queue are under 10 mins ) and you will gain 200 azerite power per day more or less.

    But I understand that is a bad development of the whole system ( In terms of azerite power gain, if you compare wq or ship missions with other parts of the game. ie: same goes with mythics, where you get the same amount every 30 mins ).

    However, maybe it's me that is too focused on playing games for fun instead of aoe grind, and my complaint here is simply not well received nor understandable ( create an alt, go play content instead of focusing on azerite/artifact power, without having to be restrained in terms of traits ).
    Last edited by Gatto; 2019-06-07 at 08:28 AM.

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Rendark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Just to be the odd one out I think reputation accrues to your character. The Grand Poobah of The Fraternal Order of Water Buffaloes doesn't know your alt from Barney Rubble.

    A neat mechanic would be for your main to "introduce" your alt to the Poobah through a letter or something which would automatically raise them to Friendly if the main was less than Exalted or even to Honored if your main was exalted. But that's entirely too RPG for the game as it is today.

    Not a fan of account wide reputation. You might as well allow characters to become and do anything instantly so that no one needs an alt.
    I get what your saying but I really don't care about the RP of my alts. I'm not saying characters should have every profession in the game or change class at will.

    Account wide rep would really just help people like me who can't stand looking at the rep page of alts. When I did play the game I was stuck on my shaman for years. The thought of "losing" all the rep on my shaman bugged the crap out of me.

  17. #17
    OP, you should check out Final Fantasy XIV... you can be every class on one character... so not account-wide but it does satisfy the need of having multiple alts. There is a teleportation system in place along with queues for leveling dungeons so your time is rewarded and the story has been really good so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    No fucking way. The worst idea since democracy.

  18. #18
    I would love having many of the random shit we have to be account wide, but it would make a problem we already have worse.

    The requirement of maintaining a ton of different classes, and having them ready for whatever situation. If every alt inherited all your progress except gear, then everyone in any raiding guild (even lower end heroic guilds) and every M+ group would have to maintain a fleet of every class for their role. Gear is so easy and simple to get now and you would never be allowed to play your "main" if it wasn't FOTM.

    GW2 has practically everything account wide, as does ffxiv, but they both have the above problem in droves. You'll join a raid group there and if you aren't on a FOTM class many (not all but MANY) groups will pressure you or force you to change to whatever is incrementally better because it takes nothing to swap and you lose nothing but your personal enjoyment.

    That'd be the biggest fear I have for more account wide stuff, and I'm someone who really wants account wide stuff.
    Last edited by Keltas; 2019-06-07 at 01:32 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Keltas View Post
    The requirement of maintaining a ton of different classes, and having them ready for whatever situation. If every alt inherited all your progress except gear, then everyone in any raiding guild (even lower end heroic guilds) and every M+ group would have to maintain a fleet of every class for their role. Gear is so easy and simple to get now and you would never be allowed to play your "main" if it wasn't FOTM.
    Already the case, even mediocre key level m+ pugs constantly want prot warr + resto druid + rogue + havoc dh (and the 5th guy is the keyholder who can be whatever meme spec doing half the tank dps, but he wants himself boosted).

    The pressure on playing meta spec derives mostly from how big is (perceived or real) gap between specs. If picking a rogue over ret pala is shaving 3 seconds off your m+ timer, not many people will care to sit extra 10 mins in queue to find one (some weirdos still will, but much fewer people). If picking said rogue opens big possibilities of ignoring mechanics and whole packs of mobs, then yeah, every group wants one and all the rets, dps warrs, enhance shamans, ferals etc. won't be invited unless they're 10 times better gear / xp wise than the rogue, or there's no rogue in the queue.

    Maintaining alts is already a thing in rated pvp, mythic raiding and m+ pushing, swapping around when the meta shifts is super common. Just comes with extra annoyance of AP farming and whatnot. The goal of game devs shouldn't be to make swaps harder, but to make the gap smaller, so people feel less gimped for picking holy priest over resto druid etc.

    Even if the swap is super hard / impossible to do, that won't make people invite your "sub par" spec, it will just make you stuck in a dead end situation. Imagine vanilla wow where progress was slow and swaps hard to do. Did people invite moonkins to any serious content? Not really, as the spec was deemed non-viable. If you made one, and then found out the only casters considered worth inviting are mages and warlocks... well you just wasted months of your life, too bad.
    Last edited by Marrilaife; 2019-06-07 at 02:19 PM.

  20. #20
    I like account wide stuff and faster traveling. It's really good for the game.

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