Did the allies delay the invasion of Normandy on purpose?

[Guy4123]

It was amazing the Soviets did so well considering at some point in the push west, soldiers would have to share one gun among ten of them.. They also used dogs as mobile explosive devices against tanks..

Enemy at the Gates isn't a documentary.

[Domcho]

Exactly, the USSR was acting based on self-interest. Why should they deserve praise? It's not like they did it for others ... if you're gaining from stuff that's your reward right there, don't expect "praise".

So all the Eastern European ex-Soviet states, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Austria and East Germany should condemn the Soviet Union for the removal of Nazism in these countries and forget about the Red Army casualties that played a part in this?

Because of Russia.

Being "liberated" by the USSR was not exactly a good thing for the Western Slavic countries or the Baltic States. After all, these are the countries asking the US to station troops now....

And how exactly did you come down to this conclusion? Are you saying it would've been better for these countries to remain under Nazi occupation / collaboration?

After Allied victory in WW2, industrialization did occur in these countries, as well as modernization and improvement of these countries armed forces for the purpose of self defense. Contrary to what happened after the fall of communism, heavy industry factories were shut down, armed forces' quantity and fighting capability was intentionally brought down to the point where it's pointless to even have them, so instead US troops are stationed there. Let me remind you Gorbachev's Perestroika wasn't particularly well accepted, to say the least, by the governments of East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania and even Czechoslovakia, yet all those governments collapsed one way or another... I wonder who is responsible for that?
As for US stationing troops, there have been multiple attempts at holding a referendum for leaving NATO and removing US bases from Bulgaria. No referendum happened, and it never will. The colonial government would never allow it, despite the people having democratic right for it. While we're at it - no referendums were held in any of the Eastern European countries for joining NATO and the EU, yet people claim democracy and the people's free will triumphs over the past dictatorship. So, if being liberated by the USSR is a bad thing, how is being liberated by the USA a good thing?
Also, how exactly was the fragmentation of Yugoslavia by the USA a good thing for the former Yugoslav countries?

[Independent voter]

Money - is that your best excuse? You want to compare money with blood?

We showed up eventually, and our invasion of Normandy pulled a lot of Germans away from the Eastern front, saving Soviet lives.

So there is that.

[unbound]

News from 1984 with Soviet propaganda, published by Christian Science Monitor.

I don't usually attack the source, but come on...

Nothing wrong with pointing out questionable sources.

It would also be worth pointing out that freefolk appears to purposely (and likely disingenuously) omit the first few sentences of the article, including this important piece:

But the Soviet Union, meanwhile, is engaged in a major effort to belittle the contribution of Western countries during World War II.

To the OP's original question, it becomes rather questionable that we would delay efforts just to hurt the Soviets, especially since we had been giving them aid since 1941 (via the Lend-Lease Act) thru 1945.

[zealo]

Enemy at the Gates isn't a documentary.

Even though enemy at the gates is a source of many misconceptions, that thing about attaching explosives to dogs as mobile anti-tank weapons is actually true, even if it didn't work out very well, with the soviets stopping shortly after they began with it.

[Forogil]

Also why we expedited the dropping of the bombs on Japan as the Russians had started getting involved there and would have gobbled up territory there should the war have lasted longer.

Another conspiracy theory.

They dropped the first bomb before the Russians got involved, and they in fact pushed the Russians to get involved (3 months after WWII-Europe ended).

They simply dropped the bombs when they were ready.

- - - Updated - - -

Chicken usa didn't really join the war until the outcome became clear.

Well, Soviet Russia joined the war in 1939; but on the wrong side.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, they delayed it for the purpose of finding the right weather conditions.

And the phase of the moon as well - for the tides and a bit of moon-light.

[Guy4123]

Even though enemy at the gates is a source of many misconceptions, that thing about attaching explosives to dogs as mobile anti-tank weapons is actually true, even if it didn't work out very well, with the soviets stopping shortly after they began with it.

I was more talking about the one rifle for ten men comment.

[Ozyorkbourne]

The allies did mess around Africa and Italy for months. It didn't accomplish much militarily. Soviet soldiers were dying at the time.

I'm just saying the old Soviets might've had a point.

"Mess around." If you think that the North Africa and Italy campaigns were just messing around then you need to educate yourself more than just reading a few Soviet theories. The entire point of the North Africa campaign was to take complete control of the Med and have access to Italy, which was considered the Axis' soft underbelly. The Italy campaign had initially been looked at as a way to enter Germany and knock out a major Axis member, but between weather, delays and natural choke points it proved too costly. The N.Africa campaign also attrited huge amounts of Axis resources from soldiers to vehicles and equipment and eventually opened South France to invasion/landings too - these were done in August of 1944 and are referred to as the Champagne Campaign because of the lack of resistance met.

Also a large amount of the wait was spent amassing overwhelming force to assure minimal losses and enable fast sweeping movements once the landings were completed, combined with achieving aerial supremacy.

[Adam Jensen]

And the phase of the moon as well - for the tides and a bit of moon-light.

Right. Had they not gone on June 6th, the next chance would have been June 22nd. And there was a massive storm on the 22nd, which meant they probably would have delayed further into July.

[Kellhound]

So all the Eastern European ex-Soviet states, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Austria and East Germany should condemn the Soviet Union for the removal of Nazism in these countries and forget about the Red Army casualties that played a part in this?





And how exactly did you come down to this conclusion? Are you saying it would've been better for these countries to remain under Nazi occupation / collaboration?

After Allied victory in WW2, industrialization did occur in these countries, as well as modernization and improvement of these countries armed forces for the purpose of self defense. Contrary to what happened after the fall of communism, heavy industry factories were shut down, armed forces' quantity and fighting capability was intentionally brought down to the point where it's pointless to even have them, so instead US troops are stationed there. Let me remind you Gorbachev's Perestroika wasn't particularly well accepted, to say the least, by the governments of East Germany, Bulgaria, Romania and even Czechoslovakia, yet all those governments collapsed one way or another... I wonder who is responsible for that?
As for US stationing troops, there have been multiple attempts at holding a referendum for leaving NATO and removing US bases from Bulgaria. No referendum happened, and it never will. The colonial government would never allow it, despite the people having democratic right for it. While we're at it - no referendums were held in any of the Eastern European countries for joining NATO and the EU, yet people claim democracy and the people's free will triumphs over the past dictatorship. So, if being liberated by the USSR is a bad thing, how is being liberated by the USA a good thing?
Also, how exactly was the fragmentation of Yugoslavia by the USA a good thing for the former Yugoslav countries?

I'm saying it would have been far better for them to have been liberated by the US/UK (or preferably never invaded by the USSR to begin with) than being "liberated" by the USSR.

The heavy industries of the former Warsaw Pact countries were often unable to compete in a free market and/or were horribly polluting. That is why they failed. As for the armed forces, those were cut just like NATO's forces were cut at the time. Plus, the equipment they had was largely junk and needed to be replaced with superior, NATO compliant, gear and weapons. Countries like Poland have an overall superior military than they did in 1990.

Bulgaria has a democratically elected government, as do the rest of Eastern European NATO countries. Thus, they joined NATO in the same manner that the US did, by vote of representative government.

Per capita GDP East Germany vs West Germany says it all when it comes to why being liberated by the US was better than the USSR. Or you can look at the forced relocation of borders (and people) by the USSR post war.

[Deja Thoris]

The allies did mess around Africa and Italy for months. It didn't accomplish much militarily. Soviet soldiers were dying at the time.

I'm just saying the old Soviets might've had a point.

It accomplished a great deal. Maybe you should study some history to understand why.

[InTheEnd]

Victors get to write history. That is all.

[Masark]

The Christian Science Monitor? How do those words even go together?

(Christian Science)(Monitor).

Despite being tied to said kooks, it's a generally sensible and well regarded publication with a reputation for levelheaded coverage of issues and a fair string of journalism awards.

[Aenigma84]

Yes, they delayed it for the purpose of finding the right weather conditions.

Anything else is a conspiracy theory.

- - - Updated - - -



It didn't accomplish much? Rommel's defeat cut Germany's supply lines to vital North African oil and the invasion of Italy took out one of Germany's biggest allies in the war.

Read a textbook once in your life.

what north african oil ? lybia didnt have oil until wel after WW2
egypt didnt have any oil either and rommel never took that over

North africa was a side theather at best and italy fighting on was a net drain on germany so you might have saved them man and the trouble
just look at greece and north africa where the germans had to help the italians each tim

[Cizr]

I would not be suprised.

In May when there was uprising in Prague against nazi occupation (on 4th of may) and USA army at that point was not even hour away from Prague. Patton wanted to go there and help rebels but his superiors forbid it because they had deal with USSR that Prague will be liberated by Red Army. Red Army arrived 5 days later which led to a lot of unnecessary death.

politics eh

[Aenigma84]

Without the massive support of the Allies throughout, the USSR would have been luck to regain the territory it lost.

about 84% of lend & lease was shipped in mid 1943-1945
by then stalingrad was over and the germans where already being pushed back

if you look at eastern front 1943 by then the soviets had over 10million forces vs less then 4 million germans left
and the russians where producing 10x asmuch as germans in terms of tanks & planes and actually had fuel

so fairly sure no lend lease would have slowed russia down but they would stil end up in western europe eventually
wich would not have been a good thing

[GreenJesus]

Money - is that your best excuse? You want to compare money with blood?

You should blame your own country for not even having a gun for each soldier. No wonder so many died. Russia thought "just send bodies at it and eventually I guess we'll win." You should be thanking capitalism and American industry for saving your soldiers lives.

[Ashina]

D-Day happened at the right time, in that Hitler underestimated it due to his other engagements. In any other year there would've been too powerful of a German force in the region to repel the invasion AND the US wouldn't have had the manpower and material to make it happen.

[Ihavewaffles]

A shame u weren't repelled Cuba "bay of pigs"...

U would't think of pretending u won war, n Nazi-Germany would have fallen without you.

- - - Updated - - -

You should blame your own country for not even having a gun for each soldier. No wonder so many died. Russia thought "just send bodies at it and eventually I guess we'll win." You should be thanking capitalism and American industry for saving your soldiers lives.

US joined when ze germans got fucked on the east front

[Dadwen]

Nah it was the largest assault of it's kind ever pulled off, guessing it was a major undertaking and spite had little to do with any delays, although kinda makes it hard to feel sorry for the soviets after trying to make bed with the snake till it bit them on 22 June 1941...