Thread: Baldurs Gate 3

  1. #1981
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    I think he's actually 100% correct. For example I really feel the super high RNG of the D20 is bad for modern video games and basically weren't really intended to be used there at all. Many decisions in current D&D exist to simplify things enough to the point where people can easily resolve outcomes in their homes during their own sessions. That is necessary and good in tabletop, but a computer can do a much better job tracking stats and simulating many more variables without wasting anyone's time. Its like using gameboy graphics on a 3090.
    I didn't quote everything, but I did read it all, and I think it all comes down to degrees of freedom in a game. Is it possible to crafting a game completely adherent to a D&D tabletop experience? You could get pretty close, but the amount of development to entertain that many degrees of freedom in gameplay is not feasible (for now anyways).

    I will say the nice thing about having dice rolling still a part of the game is because it does evoke a sense of more control or feedback in your experience similar to actually rolling dice on a tabletop. While it's easier to just have all the numbers in the background done automatically, having the same outcomes visually shown with dice being rolled does add that little flair to the experience... even if the outcomes would be exactly the same. It's akin to an illusion of choice, where everything is out of your hands but you feel some level of control of your character, but the sensation is dramatically reduced if things just happen in the background that you never see. Been playing Solasta a bit, and I quite enjoy all the dice rolling that's in the game, as the experience is close enough to the tabletop experience... even the joys of rolling a natural 20 or the pain of rolling a natural 1 (or wasting a 20 on an easy skill/ability check ). Again, nothing actually changes in the game in terms of outcomes as it's all RNG in the end if you use a D20 (or any dice) or not, but the player experience is different if you add dice to the game.

    In terms of difficulty scaling that a DM can do, that's something you can put into a game (can even make it an option to turn on or off) or implement it in another way. Typically, many D&D style games have difficulty settings that you can adjust on the fly, and sometimes that adjusts not only damage/HP values but how also tough/forgiving encounters actually are in terms of spell usage or AI. While video game players typically rely on saves to navigate difficulty settings, the ability to adjust the difficulty of the game manually or automatically are pretty much a staple exactly because you don't have a literal DM there guiding you along.

    When it comes to specific spells and abilities... yeah, that's a hard one to implement beyond scripted events, but in reality everything is scripted in a computer game to some degree. It's technically not impossible to implement every spell available in 5e, the question is whether it's worth the time and effort to do so and to what degree you implement a spell. This goes back to the concept of degrees of freedom in a game, and how much you'd fundamentally have to change for one or a handful of similar spells to work. For example, implementing Shape Water in a game would be extremely hard in terms of replicating what you could do in a tabletop setting. A developer would have to reduce the degrees of freedom drastically in order to implement the spell, as not only would it be impossible to manifest every effect a person could think of for Shape Water, but also programming the AI to deal with all those outcomes is just as impossible. Maaaaybe in the future with some leaps in AI tech could you craft a game that allows all those degrees of freedom, but the best you could do right now is severely limit the options with Shape Water to what you can actually code in a feasible amount of time. Or just outright not add it to the game if things become too difficult.

    Anyways, I think the spirit of the argument is to add as much as you can and try to give players as much freedom as possible while keeping the experience as authentic as possible. While everyone has their own parts of D&D that they'd consider mandatory or defining, they probably vary quite a bit. Personally, I think having dice rolls a part of a game (even if all the math happens in the background anyways) is one of those features I find rather defining for a D&D video game and keeps the experience authentic. I'm sure everyone has their favorite or 'lucky' dice they like to use for tabletop applications, and it just adds that little personal touch to the experience that's not really found in other medium.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2021-06-19 at 03:54 AM.
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  2. #1982
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I didn't quote everything, but I did read it all, and I think it all comes down to degrees of freedom in a game. Is it possible to crafting a game completely adherent to a D&D tabletop experience? You could get pretty close, but the amount of development to entertain that many degrees of freedom in gameplay is not feasible (for now anyways).

    I will say the nice thing about having dice rolling still a part of the game is because it does evoke a sense of more control or feedback in your experience similar to actually rolling dice on a tabletop. *SNIP*
    I think that's fair, I'm not a tabletop player and I understand why they kept the dice in the game. Its funny that you mention a sense of control in regards to dice, because that's kind of the opposite of what it evokes in my view. I feel like it takes some control away because outcomes aren't in your hands anymore when they are random. I really liked tactician mode in DoS2 and especially how the AI could sometimes surprise you with really smart plays. In a sense I was hoping that an even higher level tactics would be in BG3 but I'm a bit worried that that level of tight tuning isn't an option when a certain course of action could either lead to huge success or failure depending on pure randomness. I guess I do somewhat understand the point though from the perspective of "If you're going to have RNG in the game (which you always will) then at least let me make the roll".

    In regards to the freedom possible in a game vs tabletop, I feel like they are definitely doing a lot and probably more than any other studio will in the near future in terms of creating a game where different approaches to a problem can work and where choices actually significantly alter outcomes. In that sense I feel like this is going to be the most true D&D adventure experience. I also believe that where the game currently falls short in providing an outcome that a player might expect from a particular clever little use of a spell, there is room for feedback and they'll probably be swayed if the argument is convincing enough and time allows.

    Scaling difficulty on the fly by the AI I think would feel to me somewhat like cheating or robbing me of an experience. I would be somewhat disappointed if I found out that a particularly hard encounter I beat had been holding back or scaled down without my knowing. I think I want to engage every encounter without any such nerfs. On the fly adjustment done by the player could provide some relief though I do agree there.

    About staying close to the original ruleset: I feel that the purist argument is actually not in line with what defines D&D or what is the spirit of 5e. It seems the creators of the ruleset really intended to create a foundation upon which DM's could build, adding and removing what they felt was necessary for the specific adventure they wished to craft. And that is also the way it is played, many campaigns that are played around the world that are of much smaller scale than Larians have a ton of their own ideas, so Larian in creating the gigantic adventure they are should not be constrained to the bare minimum of the RAW. Fun and wonder should always trump tightly following the rules.

  3. #1983
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Completely missed new panel:


    Last edited by Makabreska; 2021-07-09 at 09:50 PM.
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  4. #1984
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    In regards to the freedom possible in a game vs tabletop, I feel like they are definitely doing a lot and probably more than any other studio will in the near future in terms of creating a game where different approaches to a problem can work and where choices actually significantly alter outcomes. In that sense I feel like this is going to be the most true D&D adventure experience. I also believe that where the game currently falls short in providing an outcome that a player might expect from a particular clever little use of a spell, there is room for feedback and they'll probably be swayed if the argument is convincing enough and time allows.
    I have to disagree. Disco Elysium is the game that innovated the genre to the point where I play BG3 and it feels straight up archaic. Why wouldn't I save scum my rolls in BG3? What's the upside of failing a roll? In Disco Elysium both successful and failed rolls lead to unique outcomes in terms of narrative and based on your stats and what rolls you won/lost you get a different experience, but all of the situations feel special. In BG3 every time you fail a roll you just miss out on content, usually the coolest content.

  5. #1985
    Quote Originally Posted by nRes View Post
    I have to disagree. Disco Elysium is the game that innovated the genre to the point where I play BG3 and it feels straight up archaic. Why wouldn't I save scum my rolls in BG3? What's the upside of failing a roll? In Disco Elysium both successful and failed rolls lead to unique outcomes in terms of narrative and based on your stats and what rolls you won/lost you get a different experience, but all of the situations feel special. In BG3 every time you fail a roll you just miss out on content, usually the coolest content.
    I think there's some very interesting content behind failed rolls in BG3 as well. I don't really want to post spoilers though but one example of it relates to tieflings. I also think the scale of BG3 is a lot bigger.

  6. #1986
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    So I heard there's a new big patch. What does it offer? A new race/class?
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  7. #1987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    So I heard there's a new big patch. What does it offer? A new race/class?
    Go check patch breakdown vid posted above.
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  8. #1988
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    So I heard there's a new big patch. What does it offer? A new race/class?
    EDIT 13 July - Seems they have ran into issues on Tuesdays release and it has been pushed back to Thursday.

    No new races or classes. This was their highlights so they are likely the biggest things the patch will bring. Full notes tomorrow.

    Well Met Adventurers!

    The full patch notes for Patch 5 will be revealed on Tuesday the 13th, when it releases. For now, here are some of the highlights from the patch.

    The Active Roll System
    During skill checks, rather than leaving you at the mercy of the RNG gods during skill checks, in Patch 5 we have ensured players now have much more agency. Active Roll gives players the ability to swing the odds in their favour by applying spells and bonuses to their rolls. Additionally, players can now see their modifiers and status effects happen directly within the UI, rather than being calculated in the background.

    Background Goals
    Players have always been able to select a ‘Background’ at the Character Creation screen - Folk Hero, Acolyte, Urchin, and so on. Now every character will have their own series of secret miniquests based on these roles, called Background Goals. So, whenever a Folk Hero does something Folksy and Heroic or an Urchin does something Urchiny, they’ll be rewarded. It’s a new way to encourage role playing, with players directly benefiting from acting as their character would in any given scenario.

    Camp Supplies
    Camp Resources are a new feature that will make you think a little more strategically about when to activate a Long Rest. Now in order to make camp, you first need supplies. You know all the food and scraps you find around Baldur's Gate 3? Well from now one, you’ll need that to set up for a full rest. Finally, a use for your giant hoard of dead fish!

    Also coming this patch are Mini Camps, context-dependent environments that offer an alternative to returning to your HQ by the river. From the Chapel near the Ravaged Beach to the Underdark, we've recreated every landmark as its own isolated location that can be accessed when you’re ready to hunker down for your Long Rest.
    There are a huge number of other improvements we’ve made for Patch 5, including Non-Lethal Attack Mode, old-school point and click dialogue, and some very intriguing new story content around a certain party member...
    Last edited by quras; 2021-07-13 at 08:09 PM.
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  9. #1989
    No new content but quite a lot of fixes and changes in the new patch.

    https://store.steampowered.com/news/...49702073670252

    I'm very interested in seeing what this sword does now that you can get something for actually killing him.

    * Flaming Sword can now be looted from Commander Zhalk.
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  10. #1990
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Seems the game needs a little more work :v

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  11. #1991
    Looks intended to me...

  12. #1992
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby B View Post
    Looks intended to me...
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  13. #1993
    if that doesnt stay in the game i will be sooo disappointed

  14. #1994
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Seems the game needs a little more work :v

    Reminds me of the old Dragon Age: Origins bugs... good times :P
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  15. #1995
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Seems the game needs a little more work :v

    Watched the video, was not disappointed

  16. #1996
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Completely missed new panel:


    This guy looks extremely enthusiastic.

  17. #1997
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    This guy looks extremely enthusiastic.
    tl;dr? new class at last?
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  18. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    tl;dr? new class at last?
    I mean you can just watch that patch breakdown vid above.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  19. #1999
    Quote Originally Posted by Proskill View Post
    tl;dr? new class at last?
    No.

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  20. #2000
    Scarab Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    It's a real bummer that not getting this game in 2022 is an actual possibility.
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