Thread: Baldurs Gate 3

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  1. #1801
    I originally wanted to wait, but in the end I couldn't resist and gave it a shot. I have no issues with 5e what so ever, if anything I'm sad that many of my favorite spells haven't made it into the game (yet?). I take cantrips any day of the week over the annoying older systems. I could also never get into the THAC0 cult.

    Overall the game is nice enough, but I dislike the start a bit. It's too action packed for my taste and with a new character I would have gladly taken a start like in BG1 which was a bit more chilled. That you have to click the jumping animations for every single character in your party if you want to skipp a puddle is also annoying. I'm also not sure that relying on dice rolls for everything is the best choice. Having a high charisma character and failing a low charisma check (or any check for that matter) because of dice rolls feels just shit. Not manner of dice luck for your rare cases where it pays off will ever be worth it in hindsight. I wish there would be a gameplay custimization option that would set hard levels of stats for some of these checks instead so that you can also play it safe, like many games have since adapted as their standard model.

    I don't have many issues with the characters, the only one that annoys me is the yellow bat cunt so far, but that is intentional I guess. I also love how you can still find creative ways to enter places via misty step or jumping there. I really couldn't be arsed to do the selune disc puzzle and cheesed my way in via the hags lair, I love doing such things. The divinity approach is probably the closest thing you can get to real DnD feeling in that regard, so I'm all for utilizing the world as much as possible, even though alot of people seem to prefer the simple things of yesteryear.

    I would not advice people to hop into the game right now though. I have had alot of crashes and many little annoying quest state registration issues. This is clearly an early access beta, not a marketing one with faux disclaimers just in case. I hope they have alot bug testers for the rest of the game, because if this version is anything to go by then they will need them. The character limit to level 4 also feels like too low for the content on offer. I could have easily reached 5 if not 6+ with all the EXP in the zone and some of later encounters feel a bit badly balanced.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  2. #1802
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    I originally wanted to wait, but in the end I couldn't resist and gave it a shot. I have no issues with 5e what so ever, if anything I'm sad that many of my favorite spells haven't made it into the game (yet?). I take cantrips any day of the week over the annoying older systems. I could also never get into the THAC0 cult.

    Overall the game is nice enough, but I dislike the start a bit. It's too action packed for my taste and with a new character I would have gladly taken a start like in BG1 which was a bit more chilled. That you have to click the jumping animations for every single character in your party if you want to skipp a puddle is also annoying. I'm also not sure that relying on dice rolls for everything is the best choice. Having a high charisma character and failing a low charisma check (or any check for that matter) because of dice rolls feels just shit. Not manner of dice luck for your rare cases where it pays off will ever be worth it in hindsight. I wish there would be a gameplay custimization option that would set hard levels of stats for some of these checks instead so that you can also play it safe, like many games have since adapted as their standard model.

    I don't have many issues with the characters, the only one that annoys me is the yellow bat cunt so far, but that is intentional I guess. I also love how you can still find creative ways to enter places via misty step or jumping there. I really couldn't be arsed to do the selune disc puzzle and cheesed my way in via the hags lair, I love doing such things. The divinity approach is probably the closest thing you can get to real DnD feeling in that regard, so I'm all for utilizing the world as much as possible, even though alot of people seem to prefer the simple things of yesteryear.

    I would not advice people to hop into the game right now though. I have had alot of crashes and many little annoying quest state registration issues. This is clearly an early access beta, not a marketing one with faux disclaimers just in case. I hope they have alot bug testers for the rest of the game, because if this version is anything to go by then they will need them. The character limit to level 4 also feels like too low for the content on offer. I could have easily reached 5 if not 6+ with all the EXP in the zone and some of later encounters feel a bit badly balanced.
    The CEO of Larian talked about RNG and possibly offering a non dice roll version of the game. Kind of interesting, since I agree right now RNG plays too large a role. Stream is here its near the beginning: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/763351879. You can offer feedback about the RNG via the Larian Launcher as well if you want something like that.

  3. #1803
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    The CEO of Larian talked about RNG and possibly offering a non dice roll version of the game. Kind of interesting, since I agree right now RNG plays too large a role. Stream is here its near the beginning: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/763351879. You can offer feedback about the RNG via the Larian Launcher as well if you want something like that.
    Ah cool, thanks. Something like a game-mode option would be ideally what I want, nice to see that they are open to such things.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  4. #1804
    Most important question of the entire thread: Are the "Latin" spellcasting chants in yet?
    It became clear that it wasn’t realistic to try to get the audience back to being more hardcore, as it had been in the past. -- Tom Chilton

  5. #1805
    Quote Originally Posted by Blayze View Post
    Most important question of the entire thread: Are the "Latin" spellcasting chants in yet?
    Your character certainly says the latin words related to fire and stuff when using fire bolt. Same for the frost cantrip. Those are the ones were I noticed it because I spammed them occasionally go clear patches of fire/vines.
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  6. #1806
    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    Ah cool, thanks. Something like a game-mode option would be ideally what I want, nice to see that they are open to such things.
    Yeah same, apart from the bugs and lack of polish in some areas I think RNG is the main thing hurting the game. Using dice to determine outcomes in a modern game like BG3 is like setting up a state of the art operation table, scanning the patient with an MRI machine, hooking them up to various electronic devices to monitor vitals... and then operating on them with a spoon.

  7. #1807
    Quote Originally Posted by Warning View Post
    Yeah same, apart from the bugs and lack of polish in some areas I think RNG is the main thing hurting the game. Using dice to determine outcomes in a modern game like BG3 is like setting up a state of the art operation table, scanning the patient with an MRI machine, hooking them up to various electronic devices to monitor vitals... and then operating on them with a spoon.
    I am not against the dice itself (to be fair, for example "chance to hit percentage" is still dice of a kind, just called differently in other games, RNG is our god after all), but that often means you cannot get consistency and it usually evolves into this - hard at beggining, your characters cant hit for shit and fail conversation checks leading to rolling over everyone as living gods as your progress and mostly guaranteed to win persuasions with ease.
    If you keep increasing the difficulty as game progresses - then there is no feeling of character improvement, if nothing becomes noticably easier. No one really wants to be max level uber wizard genius and then roll nat 1 trying to convice some lowly goblin to do your bidding. Of course, it is hard for devs to find reasonable balance.
    Case in point - Pathfinder: Kingmaker - the more you level up and get items, the more stupidly OP you become. I had no idea what I was doing, whole d20 or whatever system never really clicked for me, game was overwhelming you with technical jargon about stuff like 1d8, hit dice, etc. In the end I just spammed every major buff which bosted shit which showed up on character screen and smacked stuff up (playing before getting Haste was pain, Haste is love, Haste is life), the dice rolls were just pretty much pointless spam in combat log, I looked at them only if I was missing too much.
    P.S.
    What I really, really find dumb is the whole system of spell slots/casts per day and preparing them: "Oh let me pray to my goddess so that she grants me 3 casts of Bless today and 1 Greater Healing". It is just so... urgh. It especially get's worse when you start going into lore and reading stories/novels where this action of "restocking spells" is specifically mentioned, it is just so jarring as it stands out too much.
    Last edited by Easo; 2020-11-13 at 02:56 AM.
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  8. #1808
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    What I really, really find dumb is the whole system of spell slots/casts per day and preparing them: "Oh let me pray to my goddess so that she grants me 3 casts of Bless today and 1 Greater Healing". It is just so... urgh. It especially get's worse when you start going into lore and reading stories/novels where this action of "restocking spells" is specifically mentioned, it is just so jarring as it stands out too much.
    While I agree with this personally, Vancian magic is one of the hallmarks of D&D and so I doubt it's going away anytime soon.

  9. #1809
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I am not against the dice itself (to be fair, for example "chance to hit percentage" is still dice of a kind, just called differently in other games, RNG is our god after all), but that often means you cannot get consistency and it usually evolves into this - hard at beggining, your characters cant hit for shit and fail conversation checks leading to rolling over everyone as living gods as your progress and mostly guaranteed to win persuasions with ease.
    If you keep increasing the difficulty as game progresses - then there is no feeling of character improvement, if nothing becomes noticably easier. No one really wants to be max level uber wizard genius and then roll nat 1 trying to convice some lowly goblin to do your bidding. Of course, it is hard for devs to find reasonable balance.
    Case in point - Pathfinder: Kingmaker - the more you level up and get items, the more stupidly OP you become. I had no idea what I was doing, whole d20 or whatever system never really clicked for me, game was overwhelming you with technical jargon about stuff like 1d8, hit dice, etc. In the end I just spammed every major buff which bosted shit which showed up on character screen and smacked stuff up (playing before getting Haste was pain, Haste is love, Haste is life), the dice rolls were just pretty much pointless spam in combat log, I looked at them only if I was missing too much.
    P.S.
    What I really, really find dumb is the whole system of spell slots/casts per day and preparing them: "Oh let me pray to my goddess so that she grants me 3 casts of Bless today and 1 Greater Healing". It is just so... urgh. It especially get's worse when you start going into lore and reading stories/novels where this action of "restocking spells" is specifically mentioned, it is just so jarring as it stands out too much.
    In 5e at least the early problems you bring up are countered by proficiencies, and expertise. A nat 1 on a skill check is not an auto fail (In Rules as Written at least, this is frequently house-ruled.). A character with expertise in a skill, let's say a bard for example, can succeed decently high checks with a 1. Additionally at high levels there are some classes that just flat out say no to rolling 1s for certain checks (I know rogue, and barbarian both do off the top of my head).

    And as for spell slots, it's the only reason casters aren't the ONLY thing in your party at all times. It's meant to try to keep the physical damage dealers relevant. Casters are still better at higher levels 90%~ of the time, but at least there's some downside. Though if you mean preparing specific spells (3 casts of bless like in your example) that is gone in 5e.

  10. #1810
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I am not against the dice itself (to be fair, for example "chance to hit percentage" is still dice of a kind, just called differently in other games, RNG is our god after all), but that often means you cannot get consistency and it usually evolves into this - hard at beggining, your characters cant hit for shit and fail conversation checks leading to rolling over everyone as living gods as your progress and mostly guaranteed to win persuasions with ease.
    If you keep increasing the difficulty as game progresses - then there is no feeling of character improvement, if nothing becomes noticably easier. No one really wants to be max level uber wizard genius and then roll nat 1 trying to convice some lowly goblin to do your bidding. Of course, it is hard for devs to find reasonable balance.
    Case in point - Pathfinder: Kingmaker - the more you level up and get items, the more stupidly OP you become. I had no idea what I was doing, whole d20 or whatever system never really clicked for me, game was overwhelming you with technical jargon about stuff like 1d8, hit dice, etc. In the end I just spammed every major buff which bosted shit which showed up on character screen and smacked stuff up (playing before getting Haste was pain, Haste is love, Haste is life), the dice rolls were just pretty much pointless spam in combat log, I looked at them only if I was missing too much.
    P.S.
    What I really, really find dumb is the whole system of spell slots/casts per day and preparing them: "Oh let me pray to my goddess so that she grants me 3 casts of Bless today and 1 Greater Healing". It is just so... urgh. It especially get's worse when you start going into lore and reading stories/novels where this action of "restocking spells" is specifically mentioned, it is just so jarring as it stands out too much.
    Yeah sure, a little RNG is fine but atm you can max out a stat to 20, have proficiency and be level 4 (current max) to get a total of +8. Since your dice roll is 1-20 your absolutely maxed out stat and proficiency still are only equal to 40% of a normal max roll. The actual attacks also roll insanely wide values, like 1-8 or 8-48. That to me skews the balance too heavily toward RNG. In other games like Divinity 2 we get things like partial resists via resistances which can be reduced by debuffs. Hit chance deficiencies can usually be entirely overcome by items or talent choices. It makes outcomes more reliant on character build and the players choices in combat, maybe not entirely but far more than 40% at least.

    On the spellslots thing: I feel like its a bit weird and probably modern systems are better in general but the system can potentially offer something somewhat interesting in that you have to decide when and where you spend your resources over a larger campaign rather than a single fight. However currently since you have no limit on long rests that aspect is entirely lost. I'm not sure how they're going to address it but they need to in order to make it work and to maintain balance between Wizards and other casters. I think something like a 30 minute CD on long rest and having each long rest grant two charges of short rest might work. They could also having things like fights or important quest events skip the timer forward partially.

  11. #1811
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    While I agree with this personally, Vancian magic is one of the hallmarks of D&D and so I doubt it's going away anytime soon.
    5e is already an unfathomable improvment on older systems in that regard tho. At least you get cantrips now that you can spam, making you feel like a mage/wizard/caster-moniker-of-choice. They even upgrade at certain levels, keeping them usefull. I still can't get over the older systems where you could call down armageddon from the sky 3 times a day, but when you need to pling a goblin you have to fiddle around with shit like darts, crossbows or whack 'em with your stick, all with abhorent hit chances and no damage what so ever.

    In the end I can see how people, especially those that came from video gaming, think that spell slots are a weird and arbitrary system. After all, something like the usual mana systems you find in video games since forever lend themselves way better to the topic imho and are way more natural to things we observe in nature. The concept of various descrete energy packages that come at various sizes seems just random and artificial imho (at least to the scale humans operate on, quantum world is a different beast).
    /tar Tinker-zealot /point /lol
    WoW:Shadowlands - Danuser's Divina Commedia?

  12. #1812
    Moderator Northern Goblin's Avatar
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    I think as they raise the level cap closer to the intended one at release, and we get levelled up cantrips, the limitations of spell slots are going to be less impactful on newer players.

    One thing I will say, healers aren't meant to keep people at 100%, and potions are made to be drunk. Between that and utilising your short rest/long rests properly you should find keeping your characters healthy isn't a problem.


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  13. #1813
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Goblin View Post
    SNIP....

    One thing I will say, healers aren't meant to keep people at 100%, and potions are made to be drunk. Between that and utilising your short rest/long rests properly you should find keeping your characters healthy isn't a problem.
    Not just that but with the amount of food-stuff you can find that heals you in various amounts when eaten. It's been quite easy to heal back to nearly full, if not full health almost every time I felt like I needed to.
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  14. #1814
    The Lightbringer Makabreska's Avatar
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    Ok, kinda lost track of EA, but latest patch implemented greater rewards for pacifist approach and creative use of environment when dealing with situations. Also companions are less cuntish now. So they basically fixed a more glaring issues from the first stages of EA. Thumbs up.

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/202...d-fires-fewer/
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2020-12-27 at 02:13 PM.
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  15. #1815
    Old God Orby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ok, kinda lost track of EA, but latest patch implemented greater rewards for pacifist approach and creative use of environment when dealing with situations. Also companions are less cuntish now. So they basically fixed a more glaring issues from the first stages of EA. Thumbs up.

    https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/202...d-fires-fewer/
    I am so iffy about getting EA of BG:3, I really wanna play the game, but I wanna play it when its done, but seeing everyone playing it as its in progress is testing my nerves lol.

  16. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I am so iffy about getting EA of BG:3, I really wanna play the game, but I wanna play it when its done, but seeing everyone playing it as its in progress is testing my nerves lol.
    It's worth waiting. There is not a lot to the EA yet. It's pretty thin.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  17. #1817
    Quote Originally Posted by Orby View Post
    I am so iffy about getting EA of BG:3, I really wanna play the game, but I wanna play it when its done, but seeing everyone playing it as its in progress is testing my nerves lol.
    I'm 50/50 on waiting or not.

    The EA is pretty fun. Yes, it's unfinished and has bugs but EA has about 20 or so hours of play in some really nice areas and it's been entertaining so far.

    However, if you know bugs and game issues will ruin it for you. Don't get it just yet. If you know quests you pick up but cannot finish will drive you nuts. Then don't get it yet. If you hate being capped at level 4 and weaker than most monsters in the later parts of EA. Then don't get it. It is early access after all.

    I've ran into a number of issues on multiple play throughs but over all, it was a good buy in. Those 20 hours were fun. A fun and entertaining D&D experience (other than to much ground effect skill/spells given to so many). They did a pretty good job on the EA and for 20 hours of play, it was a good purchase. Can't wait for the final product but it is no where "done" yet.
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