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  1. #21
    But... but... but... I was told talent trees didn't lead to different builds...

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    Because it also increase your heals ?
    AFAIK spell power and healing power are two completely different things.
    Rincewind: Ah! We may, in fact, have reached the root of the problem. However it's a silly problem and so I am suddenly going to stop talking to you.
    The better character questionnaire (D&D)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    while i understand this is part of Vanilla's "charm" (aka, half-arsed development)

    i think that gimmicks such as:
    farming Manual Crowd Pummeler (1h cooldown)
    or druids' "power-shifting" with Wolfshead Helm, or the horde "jumps" in WSG..
    and other such things...

    should be "fixed" and given to those classes as base improvements.
    what i mean is... lets say (for argument's sake) that a druid using Wolfshead Helm and Manual Crowd Pummeler does 3% more dps during a raid boss encounter.
    just give druids a 3% increase to their base damage, and remove such gimmicky, immersion-breaking, silly-looking, nonsensical exploits.

    i'm using druid as an example. but same goes for any similar case, like the paladin-Pummeler the OP talks about.

    ps: yeah, yeah.. i know. no changes.
    it's not like i expect blizzard to do this.
    You'd end up getting rid of 2/3'rds of classic.

    If you go there, why stop there? Is it fair rogues have a good 25% more dps then most other specs?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    Because usually such gimmicks look silly and out of place.
    They usually ruin immersion, and remove the RP from the RPG.

    Oh look,
    i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat! i'm an elf! i'm a cat!
    oh look, i'm jumping on weird graphics!
    oh look, i'm walking on walls! etc etc

    Totally awesome stuff.
    "Remove RP from the RPG"

    What, those things are exactly what brings RPG to the RPG.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by NecroLars View Post
    Haha no it doesn't! Meta is a Greek prefix meaning something along the lines of "beyond" and is used as a shortening of the term metagaming. A basic example of metagaming behaviour would be changing strategies based on your knowledge outside of the game. If you are duelling a rogue that you personally know and you, therefore, have knowledge of when he, for example, usually vanishes or uses his engineering grenades/bombs you are using meta knowledge.
    I am just going to leave this here for you.

    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/meta-meaning/

    You aren't wrong. But you also aren't right.

  6. #26
    Us plate healers tried everything to get away from healing and buffing, the way seals work is just terrible and the cd on judgement made things even worse. Be ready for a life of auto attacks and playing the buffadin

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mercadi View Post
    AFAIK spell power and healing power are two completely different things.
    Healing power increase only your heal.
    Spell power (which is spell and heal in vanilla) increase both.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Lythelia View Post
    But... but... but... I was told talent trees didn't lead to different builds...
    they do. the problem is that those builds are generally worse than the cookie cutter ones.

    but feel free to be different and enjoy.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    they do. the problem is that those builds are generally worse than the cookie cutter ones.

    but feel free to be different and enjoy.
    This was a joke at the expense of someone I had a very long discussion with about a week ago. This whole post pretty much proves my point I was making to him.

  10. #30
    Regardless whether thats good or not, the gameplay will still be super basic and slow. Ret paladins are really fun in PVP, but I wouldn't raid as one even if they were top dps

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk roboscorcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Can't figure out if you're serious or just a convincing troll. I still think the latter.

    Go look at urban dictionary. Then use common sense. When someone says "what is the keystone meta this season" you think they're asking about your knowledge of the dungeon monsters outside the game - like maybe you hang out with them after work? The throw-away NecroLars account's definition of the term would render the question entirely nonsensical.

    I took Greek in college so I know what meta means, but the prefix is nearly completely unrelated to how the term is used in MMO's today. Q. What is the tank meta for BFA season 2 keystones? A. Warrior. That has nothing to do with understanding something outside the game or going beyond something or any of that nonsense. It is a simple statement that warrior gives you the easiest path forward based on math and observation. If you know what "meta" means it's an easy question to understand and answer. If you're NecroLars it's something else.
    Nah, you're wrong, it was never an acronym (though it kind of fits). The 'meta' refers to the metagame, the game within the game. Any character or strategy that is not meta is outside of this inner game.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    Because it also increase your heals ?
    Not in Vanilla it didn't. Spellpower and Healing power were separate stats.
    Unreason and anti-intellectualism abominate thought. Thinking implies disagreement; and disagreement implies nonconformity; and nonconformity implies heresy; and heresy implies disloyalty — so, obviously, thinking must be stopped. But shouting is not a substitute for thinking and reason is not the subversion but the salvation of freedom. - Adlai Stevenson

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Livnthedream View Post
    Not in Vanilla it didn't. Spellpower and Healing power were separate stats.
    Everything that increases spell damage increases healing, e.g https://classic.wowhead.com/item=131...hroud-leggings

  14. #34
    Herald of the Titans Alex86el's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicpot View Post
    You'd end up getting rid of 2/3'rds of classic.

    If you go there, why stop there? Is it fair rogues have a good 25% more dps then most other specs?
    but they dont use any silly gimmicks.
    they may use enchanting, alchemy, poisons...
    but not (lets say) attack canceling by spamming auto-attack/escape auto-attack/escape auto-attack/escape.
    or making a macro that equips-unequips some buggy cloth bracers from winterveil, before every eviscerate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    "Remove RP from the RPG"

    What, those things are exactly what brings RPG to the RPG.
    i guess we can always pretend we are in the Matrix and those are "glitches", i suppose.
    or maybe the druid is having a seizure or something. i see your point.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by NecroLars View Post
    Haha no it doesn't! Meta is a Greek prefix meaning something along the lines of "beyond" and is used as a shortening of the term metagaming. A basic example of metagaming behaviour would be changing strategies based on your knowledge outside of the game. If you are duelling a rogue that you personally know and you, therefore, have knowledge of when he, for example, usually vanishes or uses his engineering grenades/bombs you are using meta knowledge.
    I would agree with you and I'm pretty sure that's how the use started; but for a long time now people have been saying it stands for the "most effective tactic available" so I guess that's what it means now. I always thought of "meta" to be "the game within the game" and the example you gave is fine, the choice of deck in hearthstone depending on the popularity of other decks is another (if 80% of people are playing face hunter for it's 55% win rate, and short game duration; then playing the hard counter to face hunter should net you a closer to 80% win rate kind of thing (numbers made up as example).

    I'd be curious to know which popular person found the "most effective tactic available" fit and started the change.
    Last edited by AeneasBK; 2019-06-06 at 10:44 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by AwkwardSquirtle View Post
    Trebuchets new meta.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Can't figure out if you're serious or just a convincing troll. I still think the latter.

    Go look at urban dictionary. Then use common sense. When someone says "what is the keystone meta this season" you think they're asking about your knowledge of the dungeon monsters outside the game - like maybe you hang out with them after work? The throw-away NecroLars account's definition of the term would render the question entirely nonsensical.

    I took Greek in college so I know what meta means, but the prefix is nearly completely unrelated to how the term is used in MMO's today. Q. What is the tank meta for BFA season 2 keystones? A. Warrior. That has nothing to do with understanding something outside the game or going beyond something or any of that nonsense. It is a simple statement that warrior gives you the easiest path forward based on math and observation. If you know what "meta" means it's an easy question to understand and answer. If you're NecroLars it's something else.
    Wikipedia disagrees with urban dictonary. The acronym seems like it would work alright for describing it... but that ain't correct.

  17. #37
    The fact that the most interesting thing in this thread is the META discussion says a lot about this "new build" hahahaha

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex86el View Post
    while i understand this is part of Vanilla's "charm" (aka, half-arsed development)

    i think that gimmicks such as:
    farming Manual Crowd Pummeler (1h cooldown)
    or druids' "power-shifting" with Wolfshead Helm, or the horde "jumps" in WSG..
    and other such things...

    should be "fixed" and given to those classes as base improvements.
    what i mean is... lets say (for argument's sake) that a druid using Wolfshead Helm and Manual Crowd Pummeler does 3% more dps during a raid boss encounter.
    just give druids a 3% increase to their base damage, and remove such gimmicky, immersion-breaking, silly-looking, nonsensical exploits.

    i'm using druid as an example. but same goes for any similar case, like the paladin-Pummeler the OP talks about.

    ps: yeah, yeah.. i know. no changes.
    it's not like i expect blizzard to do this.
    they already did that... its called battle for azeroth.... why the we ask for classic if they just go and do the same shit to it that we already have in retail...

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    https://classicwow.live/guides/314/s...ase-1-new-meta

    This seem interesting, by stacking spell damage and using manual crowd pummeler (yeah the same weapon that feral have to farm to top dps) to get more sor proc. With a shadow oil on the weapon (that should stack with spellpower) combined with fast attack speed and double proc with sor you apparently get some nice dps.

    On top of that this build allow more hybrid possibilities, you can switch to heal even midfight if needed and still be decent thank to the spellpower. Cleanse can also be used midswing.

    The big downside is that this build seem more dependant on consumable and mcp than even feral druid. So only for try hard i guess.

    It's definitively impressive than even 15 years after vanilla was released that people still find new builds to play.
    Another reason not to invite ret. Not only is their strongest build terrible dps, other rets find more ways to make it worse. If it wasn't for the buffs, there's no reason to bring pally's at all. Worse tanks. Worse dps and 2nd worse healer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Livnthedream View Post
    Not in Vanilla it didn't. Spellpower and Healing power were separate stats.
    What PS are you from? Does +sp affect fire damage or is it seperate because you have +fire damage?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by collax View Post
    https://classicwow.live/guides/314/s...ase-1-new-meta

    This seem interesting, by stacking spell damage and using manual crowd pummeler (yeah the same weapon that feral have to farm to top dps) to get more sor proc. With a shadow oil on the weapon (that should stack with spellpower) combined with fast attack speed and double proc with sor you apparently get some nice dps.

    On top of that this build allow more hybrid possibilities, you can switch to heal even midfight if needed and still be decent thank to the spellpower. Cleanse can also be used midswing.

    The big downside is that this build seem more dependant on consumable and mcp than even feral druid. So only for try hard i guess.

    It's definitively impressive than even 15 years after vanilla was released that people still find new builds to play.
    This seem interesting, by stacking spell damage and using manual crowd pummeler (yeah the same weapon that feral have to farm to top dps) to get more sor proc.
    MCP Reduce the damage done from SoR in live Beta.

    SoR doesn't scale with SP high like in Pservers, Imp SoR doesn't add bonuses like Sanctity,SP etc etc
    With a shadow oil on the weapon (that should stack with spellpower) combined with fast attack speed and double proc with sor you apparently get some nice dps.
    Shadow Oil doesn't get proc by SoR , Neither Dragonbreath Chilly and procrate is far worse than Pservers.

    Shadow Oil,Lifestealing,Dragonbreath Chilly doesn't proc Vengeance upon crit in Original Classic , Shadow Oil doesn't proc by JoR in Original Classic .

    This is Pserver thing and not related to Original Classic. Hence stuffs doesn't work the same and Pservers have this as a hand made and incorrect.
    Last edited by blooderduki; 2019-06-06 at 11:59 PM.

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