Warcraft Logs in Classic

[Farah]

Unsure if there was already a thread on this, but:
https://twitter.com/KihraOfTemerity/...27332889276416

https://twitter.com/KihraOfTemerity/...54249484374018

As classic supports advanced combat logging, WCL is in development! Seems like we'll actually be able to gauge players properly (compared to 2005 etc.) - don't think early combat log parsers were a thing in the original classic? (earliest one I remember is Wowmeteronline in wotlk personally)

[taishar68]

Just curious...why is this important for Classic?

[Porcodio]

To counter check any possible hybrid spec spec working properly after years of " maybe "

[Ghostile]

Just curious...why is this important for Classic?

For the same reason it's imporant for retail.

[TigTone]

I can’t remember when the date was, I could be wrong but I remember blizz devs saying for some classes people got the builds for them wrong.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I know it was a thing on realms not to be mentioned. Not all that helpful besides being able to instantly see who has the favor of the loot council.

[Synbios]

There were log parsers in TBC that were pretty similar to what they are now. I don't THINK they were around in classic, I THINK that there was a limitation because it would only catch things within around 30-40 yards. Could be wrong though, it's been a long time.

[taishar68]

For the same reason it's imporant for retail.

I guess I don’t see the point; I fail to see the type of guild that will find this useful:

Extremely competent world first types will roll through these raids without breaking a sweat.

Good guilds that are striving for ASAP clears will find gear a much bigger roadblock than whether specific raiders do X damage or handle Y mechanic.

Average guilds who are pushing progression will have a harder time fielding 40 people, and thus can’t afford to nitpick about performance. They’ll be lucky to get 40 in the door.

Below average and/or casual guilds won’t be helped or need the logs, and will have similar issues as the average and good guilds, gear and attendance will be bigger problems.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think people bringing that mindset into Classic are playing the wrong game. It really is about the journey, not the destination. But to each their own, and good luck on the way.

[Zimpoli]

@taishar68
If gamers have tools that can play into their neurotic elitism, they will get full use out of them.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I guess I don’t see the point; I fail to see the type of guild that will find this useful:

Extremely competent world first types will roll through these raids without breaking a sweat.

Good guilds that are striving for ASAP clears will find gear a much bigger roadblock than whether specific raiders do X damage or handle Y mechanic.

Average guilds who are pushing progression will have a harder time fielding 40 people, and thus can’t afford to nitpick about performance. They’ll be lucky to get 40 in the door.

Below average and/or casual guilds won’t be helped or need the logs, and will have similar issues as the average and good guilds, gear and attendance will be bigger problems.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think people bringing that mindset into Classic are playing the wrong game. It really is about the journey, not the destination. But to each their own, and good luck on the way.

Your right. It will mostly be a "look how big my dick is" tool for those that are in good favor and popular with thier loot council. Not much else.

[Darkimpact]

Multiple reasons for this people can't seem to fathom: Some people enjoy competing against others, some people want to see what others are doing and what they can learn, some guilds use websites like this to track consumables and mistakes.

Vanilla was always play your own way. If you don't like logs or parses don't download the addons or check the webpages or create/join a guild that bans those addons (these guilds existed in Vanilla).

Private servers already use logging sites like "Legacy Players" so that community already embraced logging. They are going to be widely used, might as well get used to it.

[Tojara]

Your right. It will mostly be a "look how big my dick is" tool for those that are in good favor and popular with thier loot council. Not much else.

Most rotations in Vanilla aren't too intricate enough to cause massive discrepancies in player DPS. This was true then, and it's true now.

Logs are only as valuable as the person using them, and if you actually enjoy playing with the people you're playing with, it's pretty simple to correct behavior and effectively make it so loot distribution largely doesn't matter.

This isn't to shit on Vanilla (quite the opposite), but the biggest difference between players is generally effort put forth on the consumable front. If you're lazy and don't want to pot twice, use a flask, or use food on the live version of the game you might at best lose out on 5-6% of your damage. Depending on the tier in Vanilla, the difference between somebody without consumables, and somebody with consumables could be 40-50%+. Not advising that every caster farm flask of supreme power for Molten Core, but the difference between someone with and without is enormous.

At the end of the day it's just logs. Damage meters were available incredibly early in Vanilla 15 years ago, and this is just an extension of them. People commonly handed out loot in loot council guilds based on performance and attendance, damage meters were part of that process then, and will be part of that decision making process now. Even in a world without damage meters, it's pretty easy to pick out bad players by how often they die.

Like somebody else said, it's not going to matter. People pushing to do this shit as soon as possible aren't going to have these issues, and anybody else will probably just be happy to fill a 40 man raid. If you have issues with peoples performance (especially if it's rotational due to ignorance), it's way easier to just point that out then attempt to replace.

[NovatHunter]

If you need it explained to you why certain people want to log their performance. I guess the service is not intended for you. To me, it's inherent. I don't need an argument for logging performance. Logging performance is the argument.

[therealstegblob]

I guess I don’t see the point; I fail to see the type of guild that will find this useful:

Extremely competent world first types will roll through these raids without breaking a sweat.

Good guilds that are striving for ASAP clears will find gear a much bigger roadblock than whether specific raiders do X damage or handle Y mechanic.

Average guilds who are pushing progression will have a harder time fielding 40 people, and thus can’t afford to nitpick about performance. They’ll be lucky to get 40 in the door.

Below average and/or casual guilds won’t be helped or need the logs, and will have similar issues as the average and good guilds, gear and attendance will be bigger problems.

Of course this is just my opinion, but I think people bringing that mindset into Classic are playing the wrong game. It really is about the journey, not the destination. But to each their own, and good luck on the way.

Exactly, lol.

I mean it'll be interesting to have Logs for Vanilla, I guess, but not particularly helpful. Vanilla raids are not "hard" in the same way retail raids are, people will absolutely plow the fuck through them like they do on every private server.

[wholol]

Most Pservers have been using logs for years tbh, they're mostly used for epeen purposes and to rank guilds based on clear speed , since most guilds will clear most content , even casual ones , it can get hard to show epeen but fret not ! logs will show exactly which ones can spam that 1 button rotation the hardest.

Not sure if I can link this but it's not exactly an illegal site since it just shows data and it doesn't advertise any of the aforementioned either ( not that it matters much anymore since classic is going to destroy all pservers anyway),

https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Ranking/Default.aspx , feel free to filter and browse the logs, though I'd highly suggest you only use 2 realms for accuracy ( North**** and Light******* ).

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Good to hear.
It was something already happening on Private servers, but was a complete ball ache to make happen.

Hope with modern tech and logging there might be some possible competitive community present in a game with no new difficulty coming.
Will be interested to see logs from those 1.5 hour speedclears of Naxx.

[Sencha]

Looks promising!

[MoanaLisa]

Just curious...why is this important for Classic?

There are roughly two kinds of people playing Classic from what I can tell. One type believes that much like before the game will have a community that is more inclusive and open. The other type wants the upper levels of the game to be as exclusive as possible. Thus, you get tools like this. There are also some false presumptions based on legend and myth about how difficult Classic is likely to be at all levels.

No bets on who wins out but it's not 2005 any longer. Player expectations have changed and not always for the better.

[Bigbazz]

I guess I don’t see the point; I fail to see the type of guild that will find this useful:

The primary reason for logs being popular is and always has been as a way for people to compete on DPS with players from other guilds/servers, not for in depth analysis.

[Restors]

I can’t remember when the date was, I could be wrong but I remember blizz devs saying for some classes people got the builds for them wrong.

it was during cataclysm. i remember that blue post which gave an example of boomies not using a certain glyph for firelands raid etc.