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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by anon5123 View Post
    You do realize that healing is a 0 sum game, yes?

    There's only so much healing to go around. If you are constantly healing yourself up, no shit you will be higher on healing meter than the healer.
    ^ this.

    Paladins especially are egregious there as it's how the design works out. If you're not low on HP, you're not getting healed. If that's because you're already healing yourself, well, then that is how it is.

    Heck, I'd see it as a GOOD sign if at the end of a successful run the tank is top on meters. It means people were actually dodging mechanics and avoiding damage. Many dungeons actually have fairly low overall healing requirements, with phases of relative lull in between some spots of intense healing. That's part of why Druids are so popular in high M+, as they can switch to passable damage dealing at a moment's notice. If your DPS are on point, they will take very little damage a lot of the time, and if the tank then has a lot of self-healing to boot, what's a healer going to do?

    Can't heal damage that isn't there.

    Now, if you're FAILING on runs because of low healing, that's a wholly different matter. If healers just aren't doing their job, that's on them. Do note also that many healers you find in M+ are actually DPS players that just go healing in order to get into PUGs. They may simply not be very experienced despite their high ilvl. But, again, that's only for the cases where healing is actually an issue and impacts the success of the run.

  2. #22
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
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    As people mentioned there are some tanks who just flat out don't need the constant heals. If you're doing your rotation (and you're good at your class), you'll need less. I've had dk/pali tanks who didn't need consistent healing so the trade off was that they pulled way more shit and I conserved my mana for those moments. Tbh I love those tanks the most bc they're predictable.

    If my mana conserving hots synergize with your mitigation abilities, I'm going to start dpsing because you don't need additional heals. Mana conservation is incredibly important, especially when you have tanks who like to zerg rush. I don't mind you outhealing me if I can cover you when it's most needed.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by vsb View Post
    I suggest you to turn off your metering addons and enjoy the game instead of being arrogant toxic.
    Expecting healers to out heal the tank is not toxic. Although depending on how you approach them about it, it could become toxic.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thestation View Post
    It's not like I pull like a crazy retard or something. I play according to the affixes. I militigate the best someone can according to the healing I receive.

    Do you guys get those kind of situation ?
    Seriously, you still didn't mention are you wiping or not. If not, the healer is probably bored and dpsing, you can either let him or just pull more. Some packs are dangerous to pull more, or because of affixes (necrotic, bolster, explosive), but healers dpsing in dungeons when nobody is dying is quite the norm. There are affixes that require extra healing (grievous, quaking, bursting), check on these weeks if healers still have low hps.

  5. #25
    The only time this would be an issue is if as a Paladin Self Healing yourself removed your ability to do something else that was more important in that GCD. Otherwise if you have plenty of time to be healing yourself, the Healer can be doing other things like DPSing/Healing the group.

    The only time I'd call out a healer for this type of thing is if I was keeping myself up fairly easy and the healer wasn't contributing in any other meaningful way. e.g standing around waiting to heal instead of putting in extra DPS to clear faster.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Isilarya View Post
    Expecting healers to heal I dont feel is an arrogant stance if we are being honest. It is the only reason they are there.
    Holy Priest main here with BrM, Frost Mage and Holy Paladin alts. I no longer raid, I'm a M+rat.

    Damage in most M+ comes in batches. The only time when I''m constantly healing is one of those awful Fortified weeks. I put PoM, Renew on a tank and Smite/HF/DS non-stop unless I absolutely have to heal.

    As others said, if your group is dying, wiping then yes, you have a healer problem.

  7. #27
    For the record,

    I was implying that the group is dying and not to a wiping mechanism.

    I don't mind a healer doing DPS. As long as he keep me alive.

    For those who are angry that I use an addon meter to monitor what is happening on my mythic +. Maybe you are the kind of player i'm talking about.

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thestation View Post
    For the record,

    I was implying that the group is dying ...
    Well how the fuck is is anyone supposed to know what you're 'implying'? No one here can read your mind - be clear. What's the issue? And if you're all that... find a guild. I'm sick and tired of people pugging with randoms then whining about randoms not being up to their standard. Find a guild or a Community.

  9. #29
    As a healer, if the tank is maintaining his own health pool I leave em to it. Then just focus more on bringing extra damage and just spot healing / switching when things get a bit more spicy. Play the same way on both my R Druid and Disc. Although with Disc i'll generally just keep atonement up on the tank since why not.

  10. #30
    Folks in the 1k io rating bracket have problems a lot of us don't experience. You'll get a lot of people that are getting carried through 10's (or they buy them) so it could be you're grouping with bad healers, or it could also be that you don't know how to effectively judge a healer.

    No one here is going to be able to tell based on what you're saying, but the assumption is gonna be that you're 1k io and complaining....it's probably both.

  11. #31
    If you're doing 7-10 keys and it's not grievous/bursting/quaking week, you better be doing more than the healer

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by thestation View Post
    For the record,

    I was implying that the group is dying and not to a wiping mechanism.
    Are you also implying everyone is doing their job (interrupts, moving out of the fire) and just healer is slacking? Be a bit more descriptive with the situation what exactly happened.

    We all have bad experiences, I had AD+10 run depleted solely because of healer and his excuse was "I'm lagging". -.- Kept dying, running into mobs, not healing etc. But I wouldn't say every pug has that kind of healer. Had a group that for the lulz swapped roles, it was 2 guys making a group, 1 was boomkin on raider.io but played healer, other was holy priest but played shadow, and then 3 pugs including me. Didn't even notice druid isn't mainspec heal, it was fine. Only checked them because priest was doing abysmal dps for his gear and was wondering why is the leader getting us into "boost a buddy" situation. So nope, wouldn't say every pug healer in +10s is tragic.

  13. #33
    Well, you can't heal non existent damage. I have been blamed in a FH+11 this week because I finished with 14k hps overall as a healer (we did the key very easily without wipes), what should I have done? Stand in the fire to have something to heal?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Healer damage is mostly true if a window of opportunity is there but most of the time, in progression, there is none. Precasting, stunning, int, ccing and as you said dispelling are much safer. Or dps during soft and hard intermissions. Remember that casting DPS starts the GCD, unless it's dots like Flame Shock if I'm not mistaken.
    If you're ever sitting there without your GCD ticking while there's an enemy target in range, you're playing wrong(or doing a shit fight where you have to stop DPS)

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    Well, you can't heal non existent damage. I have been blamed in a FH+11 this week because I finished with 14k hps overall as a healer (we did the key very easily without wipes), what should I have done? Stand in the fire to have something to heal?
    If you're running with arrogant players who literally cannot exercise brain power beyond comprehending a meter, yes.

  16. #36
    For the most part, a healer should only do more healing to the tank then the tank does to themselves in situations where the tank is taking an EXTREME amount of damage(and even in that regard and VDH and BDK will still likely do more due to how their heals work).

    Unless you died, and it wasn't your fault you have jack shit to complain about especially if the healer was DPSing and helping things move along faster.

  17. #37
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    My M+ tank (blood dk) regularly outheals me (shaman) on trash, even if I'm not spending time DPSing. If the damage is very heavy on the tank and light on everyone else, it can happen since tank self-healing is usually very efficient and he can beat me at healing himself every time. It's not unusual for him to push 40-50k HPS in some pulls, which will give any healer a run for their money. Usually in situations where I'm hitting that high they are high damage AoE situations in raids where I am getting a lot of group healing pumped out. Spamming my single target heals on a tank will never hit that, even with throughput cooldowns (and again, it's likely that a good chunk of the value of those queued heals will get negated by his self healing between when I start and finish my cast time anyway).

    I'm not going to pretend I'm an amazing healer but I'd like to think I'm competent and my HPS numbers are fine viewed on their own. On boss fights where there is more group damage than tank damage, I'm usually well ahead. It's just the nature of the game. I know when I fuck up and things go south because of me, and the indicator of that is never where I rank relative to the tank on the heal meters.

    Healing meters can be useful for some things but because there's a finite amount of healing that can be done and there are a lot of variables that can influence how it can be interpreted, they shouldn't ever be treated like DPS meters where the top person is "winning" or "the best" or what have you. Tanks having high self healing don't necessarily reflect anything about the quality of the healer.

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