What is the point of Lone Wolf?

[Feanoro]

It's to make people that don't want to use a pet on a pet class feel special.

Bullshit. As has been expressed many times in this and other threads, the benefit was primarily around the devs being too lazy to fix the pet AI.

Marksmanship has never fit the class identity of hunters anyway.

Yeah, why would a guy who uses ranged weapons focus on them when he can roar and whistle at Fluffy while spazzing around the room?

In the pre-Cata design, your three trees represented different aspects of being a hunter. Cata decided that each tree was a separate class itself. For example, newly dubbed Fire Mages suddenly forgot all the frost and arcane magic they'd been using for 80 levels. Same for hunters, no longer were we sharpshooters with wild beast companions, and traps and poisons.

[ItsWhimsy]

What is the point of Lone Wolf?

So you can play as an archer archetype without a pet.

[Zmaychek]

Lone Wolf is awesome if u ask me, i hated pets since start but always wanted to play ranged class but hate casters. Something like Ranger class would be awesome (limited use of stealth and bow are my dream) and MM is close to that. Still using pets for utility but only when i have to. I like separation between specs (only because blizz will never add classes like gunner or ranger) so you have choice in one class (almost like druids) u want pets BM, wanna melee SV, wanna be ranger MM. If u ask me i would remove pets totally from MM (maybe leave them just for looks without damage and utilities) and add some extra utility spells as talents, cause we only have that 20% damage reduction for 6 sec on 3 min CD

[JoeGood]

my biggest beaf i have in wow, has allways been pets... so dps or not, i love hunters, but i hate pets.. so its been amazing

[SongWarden]

A pet makes little sense for a Marksman, and those hunters have always had a pet mostly just as flavor, not as an integrated part of the class.
The buff means you do roughly the same amount of damage on single target when the boss never moves faster than the pet. However, once you get 2 target cleave, or spread AoE. Or even just target swapping, Lone wolf becomes a fairly easy to understand binary DPS or Utility choice.

tl;dr; Lone wolf is to give MM a choice between DPS and utility

Am I missing something? I thought with the current iteration of MM, we have 0 aoe without at least 3 targets?

[Malikath]

the Pet AI is retarded and blizzard never got it working, that's the point of it.

[Battlebeard]

It's to make people that don't want to use a pet on a pet class feel special. Marksmanship has never fit the class identity of hunters anyway. Ideally, Blizzard would make a new class that revolves solely around archery/sniping/sabotage and move Marksmanship to that class and then make Hunter's more pet focused.

It's the same shit with Grimoire of Sacrifice too. Out-of-place talents specifically for people that shouldn't even be playing those classes to begin with.

Why do you consider the pet as a part of the Hunter identity? Cause of the open cinematic?

I know tons of mmorpg, where the bow/gun class has no pet and it feels as natural as playing without a pet in WoW. I play hunter cause I have ranged damage that isn't spells (meaning bows etc) but always hated to have a pet.

[Magister of Quelthalas]

The idea is MM hunter's fantasy is to be a ranger, archer type. I personally am supporter of that. I never liked pets but I like archery. Luckly for people who wants pet focus we have BM hunters and for people who wants melee combat we have Survival hunters (although it irritates me that we cant dual wield one handed axes, Blizzard!). But hey I think hunters as class from a fantasy point of view satisfies all three types of styles.

[Lathei]

Pet makes sense mainly for the beast mastery specification for a known reason.

I didn't play as survival hunter but for marksman the Lone Wolf determines the player's style of play: for larger DPS play as a loner with 10% damage gain. On PVP, the difference is noticeable and the hunter deals much more skill damage without a pet

or

with a smaller DPS, but with a pet and its additional skills (in fact, most of these skills are not good enough for me, and the Lone Wolf option is definitely better.)

I usually turn my pet off on PvP but I always play on PvE with him.

There are also people who just don't like playing with a pet. There are also those who do not care how much dmg they do, more or less, but like to have their pet with them at all times BC RP etc. This talent gives them only the opportunity to choose.

[bullseyed]

Pet makes sense mainly for the beast mastery specification for a known reason.

I didn't play as survival hunter but for marksman the Lone Wolf determines the player's style of play: for larger DPS play as a loner with 10% damage gain. On PVP, the difference is noticeable and the hunter deals much more skill damage without a pet

or

with a smaller DPS, but with a pet and its additional skills (in fact, most of these skills are not good enough for me, and the Lone Wolf option is definitely better.)

I usually turn my pet off on PvP but I always play on PvE with him.

There are also people who just don't like playing with a pet. There are also those who do not care how much dmg they do, more or less, but like to have their pet with them at all times BC RP etc. This talent gives them only the opportunity to choose.

It would be kind of nice to have SV without a pet, but SV is kind of "melee but with a pet" so that would make it more generic.

All the WoW classes and specs are loosely based on D&D. In the 5th edition, rangers currently have the following options:

1. Beast Master - has a pet -- like BM
2. Gloom Stalker - can see in the dark, disguise, fear stuff, turn invisible, lots of dodge -- basically a rogue
3. Horizon Walker - crosses into other planes to stop magic creatures like dragons, fey and elementals -- basically a shaman
4. Hunter - slayer of beasts, giants, can volley or whirlwind -- kind of like MM
5. Monster Slayer - kills literal monsters like vampires, fiends, dragons -- not really in WoW
6. Swarmkeeper - control fey monsters to make them appear as things like a swarm of bees -- not really in WoW

Core ranger is really more like SV with traps and "survival" abilities.



So if you're looking for a major reboot for hunter, the most likely would probably be monster slayer or swarmkeeper. With taming bees being recently added, I think they've played with swarmkeeper as a concept. Dire beast is also somewhat related, as well as multi-pet BM. Thing is the pet AI kinda sucks, so more pets makes it worse. I think "the swarm" would end up being a channeled cast animation instead of literal pets and at that point it is just a different skin for warlock or mage, which they don't want to do.

They've also played with the monster slayer aspect in the past, before D&D 5th edition was a thing, due to elements being in past D&D versions. Most of the early hunter sets were "slayer" based. That was as far as the lore went though, as specializing in killing beasts or giants didn't really work in WoW because what if the raid didn't have any? Related is how paladins and priests used to specialize in killing undead and did bonus damage to them, which didn't really work long term either.

[jellmoo]

It's to make people that don't want to use a pet on a pet class feel special. Marksmanship has never fit the class identity of hunters anyway. Ideally, Blizzard would make a new class that revolves solely around archery/sniping/sabotage and move Marksmanship to that class and then make Hunter's more pet focused.

It's the same shit with Grimoire of Sacrifice too. Out-of-place talents specifically for people that shouldn't even be playing those classes to begin with.

Yes. Please continue to tell people how they like to play their characters is wrong and how they should play them the way you seem to like. It's super interesting.

[Rampant Rabbit]

I don't really get this ability: it only increases Hunter's dmg by 10%, if you not have a pet. 10%???? I am sure a pet can do more than just 10% of Marksmen's total dmg + it gives some nice utilities. So my question is why would i ever use Lone Wolf, if i loose both: the dmg part and some nice buffs/utility pet abilities? What is this "buff" good for? For low lvl dungeons maybe, where everything dies so quick ...?

I think it's a decent flavour alternative to what is really going to be the best pick for most situations.

I personally loved using it when I played my hunter, and I nearly always played Grimoire of Sacrifice on my lock (which I think nailed the amount of buffs you needed to at least stay on par with specs that utilitized the pets).

[The Butt Witch]

For PVE, you don't need a pet. However a pet has multiple uses in PVP, such as roar of sacrifice, keep rogues in combat while you are cc-ed, and healing reduction.

[Amarys]

I wish they would remove pets from MM completely. As in you can't summon one at all. I want to play as a sniper/archer and kinda hate pets in general. Still as OP pointed out, sometimes its just needed as the utility it provides is just too good.

[Schizoide]

That would really hurt soloing, you would have to switch to BM for that stuff. Or survival, I guess.

IMO, now that it's baseline and not a talent lone wolf is where it should be. You can pop up a pet if you need it to solo or for utility. No loss in flexibility.

[munkeyinorbit]

I wish they would remove pets from MM completely. As in you can't summon one at all. I want to play as a sniper/archer and kinda hate pets in general. Still as OP pointed out, sometimes its just needed as the utility it provides is just too good.

Casual huntera that play at a low level shouldn't get a say on hunter design. Sometimes the pet is needed.

[Amarys]

Casual huntera that play at a low level shouldn't get a say on hunter design. Sometimes the pet is needed.

Even if I was a casual player, so what? The only spec that allows for a proper archer playstyle is MM now and it's a lot of fun to play but as the OP pointed out, I don't like that in some situations you're forced to use the pet unless you wanna play with a big handicap.

In any case, you're missing the point or maybe I just worded it badly. What I meant was, I wish they redesigned MM into a sniper/archer with no possibility to summon a pet at all as opposed to simply removing it and calling it a day. Hunters who like having pets still have BM and surv.

[deenman]

I am pretty sure Lone Wolf was 20% dmg increased in Legion ... Frost Mages still keep their 25% dmg buff while petless (Lonely Winter).

the mage pets grants a lot better dps utility for the mage,with its freze ability,the hunter pet is far weaker