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  1. #101
    Titan Aggrophobic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    So, you are saying I am right, could not formulate anything that could be considered original thought, and that is the best you could come up with.... a typed out facepalm meme? /sigh
    No, I'm saying you're being ridiculous and wrong.

  2. #102
    Problems started in WoD development, which was way before Twitch exploded and streaming became a thing.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Sosua View Post
    They took a game, that required a bit of planning, A LOT of time to accomplish things, had value in professions, and changed it to a game that caters to kids and casuals. THAT's what broke WoW.
    Ehrm, no. First of all, the "WoW is getting too casual" narrative has been here since the very release of the game and BfA has nothing to do with it. In fact, I believe the reason to this more casual game design approach is much of the opposite. Compared to most other games, WoW enjoys a BY FAR older demographic now. I can safely assume that 80% of the player base, in EU at least, is 25+ years old from what I've experienced recently. Only a small portion of older players can nowadays actually afford 6 hours+ grinds on a daily basis, unlike teens who have plenty of time (as we did back then). So, in order to keep this core audience in the game, Blizz progressively makes the game more and more accessible, so it requires less time to enjoy the end-game content.
    Classic, however, will be a different story. Blizzard is targeting two main audiences with this release: loyal existing/returning players (which all should be at least 30 years old now) and younger players who didn't have a chance to experience the legendary game they have heard so much about. I believe that what will happen is that the initial influx of nostalgic old players will flush away in couple of months after the sore realization that their life responsibilities are incompatible with the grind pace of Classic and will return/switch to retail. While younger players who actually have time for Classic and all its grind will become a core audience there, to everyone's surprise.

  4. #104
    I really don't think twitch is part of the problem, but I do wonder the impact of arena seasons and if the push towards a esport didn't actually cause some of the issues we are seeing. IE, classes. They are in an overall bad shape and blizz has been basically stalling since the beginning of the expac. I think they said at one point they don't want to change class mid season or something / middle of expansion to not screw everyone in that scene.

    The game IS indeed in a very sorry state. I feel like blizz is very silent since the big layoff too. I left back in november and I honestly don't regret anything. I also feel like it's in snowball mode. A friend of mine told me she barely even plays anymore. Most people she knew stopped playing and as such she is losing interest too. She will play classic when it launches but that's about it. Funny how classic is coming at the lowest point of WoW. Maybe they hope to get people hooked on it to forget that they are still paying the monthly fee while they use that money for the next expansion. After all, the team on classic is probably a fraction of retail team. So if classic brings back 1 million sub for a few months, that's a big win for them.

  5. #105
    I see fat human WEEKS (or even months, don't remember) before BFA even launch. When they try to sell pre-purchase.

    Fat human with a belly that can turn into unique druid forms? They even show the druid forms before BFA. Stupid me, I thought this ally race is available at the start of expansion maybe gated only by rep or something.

    I thought maybe I will level with my current druid and do whatever needed to unlock the fat human before the first raid. NOPE.

    I waited for like 2 months or something. I unsub. This doesn't seem to be a big problem for others, but for me, this is ridiculous. I am not paying for a race change. Why blizzard even do this?

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Muajin76 View Post
    Pretty much this. Ion has no love for the player base and will continue to pump out crap as long as it pleases the higher ups.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't get the whole micro holiday thing..there's no reason to really do them imho.
    No reason whatsoever. To us, anyways.

    The people Blizz has been catering towards since 6.1 apparently see a reason to do them.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukaltin View Post
    Ehrm, no. First of all, the "WoW is getting too casual" narrative has been here since the very release of the game and BfA has nothing to do with it. In fact, I believe the reason to this more casual game design approach is much of the opposite. Compared to most other games, WoW enjoys a BY FAR older demographic now. I can safely assume that 80% of the player base, in EU at least, is 25+ years old from what I've experienced recently. Only a small portion of older players can nowadays actually afford 6 hours+ grinds on a daily basis, unlike teens who have plenty of time (as we did back then). So, in order to keep this core audience in the game, Blizz progressively makes the game more and more accessible, so it requires less time to enjoy the end-game content.
    Classic, however, will be a different story. Blizzard is targeting two main audiences with this release: loyal existing/returning players (which all should be at least 30 years old now) and younger players who didn't have a chance to experience the legendary game they have heard so much about. I believe that what will happen is that the initial influx of nostalgic old players will flush away in couple of months after the sore realization that their life responsibilities are incompatible with the grind pace of Classic and will return/switch to retail. While younger players who actually have time for Classic and all its grind will become a core audience there, to everyone's surprise.
    Ehrm, no. Classic will be popular for exactly what I stated, because for people who like a challenge, it requires a bit of planning, A LOT of time to accomplish things, has value in professions, and stuff isnt just handed out... In one word, Rewarding.

  8. #108
    Trying to be good on everyone is a failure of WoW now. classic and TBC was for the real games who wanted some challenge and were willing to throw their life at the game if wanted to be top. But also casuals had their fun but the game was not just about them.

    Now everyone has everything no prestige, nothing. Only prestige now what can be seen in-game is Jaina mount. Everything is accessible. New players are not forced to do anything to be good and still can do every piece of content (4 difficulties are still one raid). This is not right, this is not MMORPG. If you want to kill the last boss of the content raid you have to work for it. If you want to have the best or almost best gear in the game. You have to work for it. Now you can have mythic alt ready within one afternoon with the help of friends by M+ spamming.

  9. #109
    I will agree with you, but i would call it the "meme" culture. It permeates all sorts of social media. It makes the class discords unreadable to me. It's some much dumb that it makes you lose brain cells if you keep reading.

    With that said, i lay the blame at the feet of the wow devs for the game. They were the biggest mmo for too long. They became fat and complacent devs who live in their own little bubble and think players will gobble anything up.
    Now, lets not get things wrong here. There is a lot of illogical hate that got thrown at BfA. That is not the problem. The problem you see when you go try other mmo's and see them trying new, rewarding systems while WoW is just doing more of the same and in some cases like AP, persisting on a mistake.

    I can also sympathise with them cause no doubt the Activision culture is poisoning the whole of Blizzard. The greed without any bounds aimed at how it can extort the most money with the least effort. That is the real cancer that is killing blizzard and their games. But, when you lay with the devil, you get burned, and Blizzard would be better off buying itself out of the partnership they are in like bungie did, or they will sink with the Activision ship.
    Yes, and i understand that is not easy to do.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2019-06-12 at 11:37 AM.

  10. #110
    Well this is hardcore stupid, multi-billion company designs their games to get free publicity from streamers on twitch, its like building ten houses right next to each other just to be able to buy more cookies from girlscouts.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Misuteri View Post
    I knew when they announced the end of flight during MOP the game was done.

    This isn’t a flying vs. ground reply.

    The game became a way to appease designers instead of pleasing players. Bad, bad move.

    Since then every expansion has tried to hone in on”trends” in gaming instead of realizing WoW is the trend.

    It was New Coke when no one wanted it. It was Biggie Size when people were counting calories. It was an SUV with $5 gasoline.

    It could have remained WoW but they thought they needed to be something else.
    end of flight? flight never ended. You still unlocked flight in pandaria... and wod, and legion, and now bfa.

    The fact is, more ppl didnt play classic than actually did, it will be a new game for them and it will be fun for a bit until they end up exactly where they are today. Classic is a much slower, but more satisfying pace since u are rewarded constantly as u lvl and u have class quests n stuff to really add to the fantasy of ur class. I am hoping that it is something that the wow dev team really takes a look at, but I can tell you the systems that attributed to wows decline and it started as early as BC (with flying and remote queueing) and really set off in wrath when they introduced the vast majority of systems we hate today that makes teh game so accessible to so many.

    Legion did a great thing with the artifact wep as it DID feel u were getting stronger but it had endgame in mind rather than lvling which is where vanilla shines becuase u see those gains and choices u have to make with ur limited gold and resources, it made u stop and try to think (how can i make money so I can buy this next rank of this?)

    WoW today is designed to keep players in a loop and we have caught on to it for a while now and its not working. Gearing feels meaningless when a content patch later u replace it all with hardly any work since u replace existing gear ilvl with higher ones, you end up worsening ur endgame by eliminating the difficulty of earlier raids or need for them to be proving grounds as it were for newer players to be weathered.

    I went off on a tangent, the art department has been killing it thats one thing I can say, those guys n gals are the true heroes atm, Im holding out the next xpac is gonna be a backtrack of sorts with the lvl squish inc.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    I hardly believe that they take streamers as guidance how to design game. Sure, they take some things in consideration how it would be for streamers but whole game design? EEEK just no.
    But streamers preach their ideas on stream. Lot of people hear them and start tossing them out as their own and blizzard listen to feedback from the masses. Streamers are often called influencers. There is no secret that streamers is one of the biggest marketing tools now in gaming. This also works to influence people who again send their feedback to developers.

  13. #113
    i mean at this point we could also blame twitch streamers for 9/11

  14. #114
    Stood in the Fire sunxsera's Avatar
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    I blame twitch & social media a little bit. Many people just follow their favourite streamer ´s opinion. "Influencer" work.
    You can see that when people here on mmo-champ post Asmongold & Preach videos - instead of making their own opinion.

    On the other hand i `m sometimes asking myself what blizzard is thinking when they give out beta keys to streamers who constantly flame the game, the company and it `s developers.

  15. #115
    Elemental Lord OneWay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    But streamers preach their ideas on stream. Lot of people hear them and start tossing them out as their own and blizzard listen to feedback from the masses. Streamers are often called influencers. There is no secret that streamers is one of the biggest marketing tools now in gaming. This also works to influence people who again send their feedback to developers.
    Do you really believe that everyone in World of WarCraft is unable to have their own opinion without looking up to streamers? Lets say that you do, are you aware how catastrophic that is? I can assure you that I personally don't give a damn about anyone opinion but my own. More so, I think people like Sco are complete idiots.

    I can agree that streamers help as marketing tool for games but that's not same as how they design their games.
    "The Dark Lady chooses her champions well."

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by OneWay View Post
    Do you really believe that everyone in World of WarCraft is unable to have their own opinion without looking up to streamers? Lets say that you do, are you aware how catastrophic that is? I can assure you that I personally don't give a damn about anyone opinion but my own. More so, I think people like Sco are complete idiots.

    I can agree that streamers help as marketing tool for games but that's not same as how they design their games.
    Not everyone. I never said everyone. But don't come here and say that certain stremaers don't have a large ass fanbase that might very well help get his ideology into the game

  17. #117
    WoW's design is from a standpoint of what they gather through data as what the community wants. The issue is, Communities like MMO-C think they are a large part of that Group when in fact they are a very small part.

    The game may not be designed for you anymore, but it is designed for others that way.

  18. #118
    Elemental Lord OneWay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Not everyone. I never said everyone. But don't come here and say that certain stremaers don't have a large ass fanbase that might very well help get his ideology into the game
    I agree that certain streamers have fanbase, I wouldn't say it's large in comparison to whole playerbase.
    "The Dark Lady chooses her champions well."

  19. #119
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    When most of the streamers are blaming Blizzard for turning such a beloved game into what is now BfA? Even very apparent shills like Bellular have finally had to speak out against just how bad the game has gotten. Even when he tries to bring up something positive, you see it through gritting teeth.

    Streamers stream what people want to see... which is why Classic has WAY outperformed BfA in viewers.

    No sir. Blame Ion... and the other lead developers before him. They alone have made the decisions that have turned WoW into an ARPG.
    This mentality is the problem. The playerbase who cry endlessly are the problem. People want Vanilla where everything in the world is a grind, but cry about a few dailies per day for their neck to upgrade. None of these whiners know what the fuck they're talking about, and WoW would fold within a year if any of them were in charge
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  20. #120
    For some reason Ion only listens to elitist scums like Asmongold and Preach

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