Blame twitch.tv and streamers for WoW's design failures

[BlueRemedy]

Everything Blizzard makes is currently shit, so I have a feeling there's a little more of an issue on their end.

[vertigo12]

It's as much a problem with uneducated audiences as it is hosts. TV-media has this effect on a lot of stuff when there's no integrity nor respect for anything but the $. Unfortunately the most efficient generalization will always be pandering to the lowest common denominator and if allowed to steer will always drive the bus off the cliff.

But media is used as mass propaganda and conditioning.

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At least they attempted to resolve the problem early in this expansion. Blizzard doubled down on the shitty Legion AP grind well into 7.2. Most of Legion's "fixes" were implemented long after I had already burnt myself out of the game. (I hate WQs and the 54-trait Artifact grind pretty much forced me into doing a lot of this content.) It's kind of a shitty situation either way. IMO, neither expansion had a perfect solution to its inherent design flaws. But credit where credit is due at least Blizzard listened to early feedback about azerite armor. Sorry even that was too little too late for you.

Man, but the 8.2 raid which is similar to Nightwell in terms of armor design is really disheartening and disappointing. They're nothing spectular but comparable to WotLK quest reward armors.

[kaminaris]

I definitely didnt spend 3 months chasing BiS Azerite armor to finally get it then have the trait get nerfed so I had to start farming an entirely different trait when you had 0 way to target farm a trait past the 340 version. But I guess praying to RNGesus to give me one item out of the ENTIRE DUNGEON LOOT TABLE once a week isnt the most hellish RNG ever comprised is it. I quit BFA over it, im aware residuum tried to fix the issue even if it didnt really. Atleast Legions late systems were better bandaids than whats happening right now.

At the very start where there was not much sources to get azerite, sure. But it soon was pretty much fixed by TR. While in legion we got waking essences at the very end of expansion. ALSO traits themselves are not nearly as powerful as legendaries were. Difference between mediocre trait vs bis trait is like 1-2%.
While difference between worst and best legendary was like 10-15%.

[Aggrophobic]

When most of the streamers are blaming Blizzard for turning such a beloved game into what is now BfA? Even very apparent shills like Bellular have finally had to speak out against just how bad the game has gotten. Even when he tries to bring up something positive, you see it through gritting teeth.

Streamers stream what people want to see... which is why Classic has WAY outperformed BfA in viewers.

No sir. Blame Ion... and the other lead developers before him. They alone have made the decisions that have turned WoW into an ARPG.

You do get that the people that ususally get most views both for BfA and games in general has played Classic and thats why it gets views, not due to the game itself, right?

[Doomchicken]

Streamers stream what people want to see... which is why Classic has WAY outperformed BfA in viewers.

BFA launch peak was over 600k twitch viewers as proven multiple times on this website, which is almost Quadruple Classics peak twitch viewership. But don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit narrative. You usually don't anyway.

[Charge me Doctor]

Of course Blizzard would start designing WoW around twitch.tv and streamers. After all, they are the ones who create free publicity and hype for Blizzard's products and get them record sales... but is this publicity really free?

Nope, it comes at a very steep price for the entire game design of WoW.

Some things, by their nature, are fun to experience firsthand but not very fun to watch. Building a character for slower-paced, more strategic combat is not very fun to watch. DHs zooming around at 200% speed and spamming "insta gib" abilities, however, entertains people.

Raids by their design should not be very fun to watch since they require lots of repetition and wipes to complete. Moreover, they have a lot of individual downtime as different players handle different mechanics. Blizzard's solution? Design raids around twitch.tv. One shot raid wipe personal responsibility run rampant all for the sake for satisfying people who want to spam "LOL POGGERS WHAT A LOSER" in chat when someone inevitably fuck ups and wipes the raid. Why bother designing clever mechanics when bosses can just be series of one shot mechanics being spammed in every direction?

There's more. M+ is without a doubt tailored to please the speedrunning community which is, not surprisingly, also found on twitch.tv.

But worst of all? Twitch.tv breeds rabid fanboy culture and it seeps into the actual game. When was the last time you played a raid or a m+ without some 12 year old kid spamming "POGGERS OMEGALUL YIKES SCUFFED" all run long?

Stop designing the game for idiotic twitch culture and you'll see immediate improvement.

If you want to complain about WoW design - look in a mirror. Everything that happened was wanted features from playerbase itself.

[Stardrift]

Lmao what? They're not designing it around twitch streamers.

They've been designing it around Twitter users who pay $15 a month to play battle pets, the "micro-holidays", and use the stupid fucking selfie cam with Twitter integration.

Why? Because they're the only ones Blizz cares to recognize as their "community" because they're the only ones who give any sort of positive feedback.

It's also who they've been hiring to steadily replace their old, real devs. Go take a look at some of their devs on Twitter. They make my skin crawl from all the cringe.

[Frolk]

Of course Blizzard would start designing WoW around twitch.tv and streamers. After all, they are the ones who create free publicity and hype for Blizzard's products and get them record sales... but is this publicity really free?

Nope, it comes at a very steep price for the entire game design of WoW.

Some things, by their nature, are fun to experience firsthand but not very fun to watch. Building a character for slower-paced, more strategic combat is not very fun to watch. DHs zooming around at 200% speed and spamming "insta gib" abilities, however, entertains people.

Raids by their design should not be very fun to watch since they require lots of repetition and wipes to complete. Moreover, they have a lot of individual downtime as different players handle different mechanics. Blizzard's solution? Design raids around twitch.tv. One shot raid wipe personal responsibility run rampant all for the sake for satisfying people who want to spam "LOL POGGERS WHAT A LOSER" in chat when someone inevitably fuck ups and wipes the raid. Why bother designing clever mechanics when bosses can just be series of one shot mechanics being spammed in every direction?

There's more. M+ is without a doubt tailored to please the speedrunning community which is, not surprisingly, also found on twitch.tv.

But worst of all? Twitch.tv breeds rabid fanboy culture and it seeps into the actual game. When was the last time you played a raid or a m+ without some 12 year old kid spamming "POGGERS OMEGALUL YIKES SCUFFED" all run long?

Stop designing the game for idiotic twitch culture and you'll see immediate improvement.

That iss a lot of opinions disguised as "facts"

[Muller21pr]

It certainly didn't get less clever. M+ is played a whole lot and only a tiny amount of players are speed running.

[Maudib]

Just wait when Classic becomes a dessert after a few months of its launch.

I LOVE dessert! And I agree... after dinner people will cozy up to their computers for a few hours of dessert before going to bed.

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You do get that the people that ususally get most views both for BfA and games in general has played Classic and thats why it gets views, not due to the game itself, right?

Keep telling yourself that. Even now, more people are watching Classic than BfA by a large margin.

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BFA launch peak was over 600k twitch viewers as proven multiple times on this website, which is almost Quadruple Classics peak twitch viewership. But don't let facts get in the way of your bullshit narrative. You usually don't anyway.

Bullshit narrative? BfA BETA was MUCH less than Classic BETA... when Classic releases it will SMASH BfA's release views. I mean absolutely smash it. And I'm sure you will come up with some other sad story as to why? "Oh the streamers are selling out and playing Classic for the $$$"

Yeah.. they are... because more people want to watch Classic than BfA... more streamers want to play Classic than BfA.

Classic is complete garbage and even 8.2 isn't going to save it.

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If you want to complain about WoW design - look in a mirror. Everything that happened was wanted features from playerbase itself.

Look at the playerbase still playing you mean. Many more millions have quit because of how much this game has changed from their beloved WoW than will ever play it again.

Modern players should be very afraid right now. Activision Blizzard is oin the warpath cancelling games left and right, firing people, losing devs, and doubling down on mobile games. The writing is on the wall for modern WoW.

[Teslac0il]

Poor design choices began long long time ago even before twitch and streaming were a thing. Trust me I'm old as Malfurion.

[Maudib]

If you want to complain about WoW design - look in a mirror. Everything that happened was wanted features from playerbase itself.

Look at the playerbase still playing you mean. Many more millions have quit because of how much this game has changed from their beloved WoW than will ever play it again.

Modern players should be very afraid right now. Activision Blizzard is oin the warpath cancelling games left and right, firing people, losing devs, and doubling down on mobile games. The writing is on the wall for modern WoW

[Aggrophobic]

Keep telling yourself that. Even now, more people are watching Classic than BfA by a large margin.

But again, the streamers. Also it's new and most can't play it themselves. Comparing them like you do has no real meaning.
I can tell by your posts here that you won't really understand anyway but it's a tad embarrassing for you when you act out like this.

[Zka]

But worst of all? Twitch.tv breeds rabid fanboy culture and it seeps into the actual game. When was the last time you played a raid or a m+ without some 12 year old kid spamming "POGGERS OMEGALUL YIKES SCUFFED" all run long?

Never seen anyone talk like that.
Stop pretending a few twitch streamers can ruin the game.

[Fiacla]

Classic is complete garbage

Finally some truth from Maudib.

[Maudib]

Finally some truth from Maudib.

I wondered if someone would catch that.

Glad to know people are actually reading my posts! Thank You!

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But again, the streamers. Also it's new and most can't play it themselves. Comparing them like you do has no real meaning.
I can tell by your posts here that you won't really understand anyway but it's a tad embarrassing for you when you act out like this.

Wait wut?

BfA beta could not be played by anyone but testers/streamers. Classic BETA has MORE viewers than BfA Beta had. Proven.

BfA launch COULD be played by the players.. but still broke records.

Does it not directly relate.. that if Classic beta is garnering more viewership than BfA beta... that it is quite possible Classic launch will also outperform BfA launch?

I mean, your obvious disdain for Classic and your BfA penchant aside... you should agree with common sense?

Want more reason as to why people will want to watch Classic on Twitch more than BfA?

Learning. There is so much about Classic that players want to know. Class choices, leveling strategies, PvP strategies, how do I train my hunter pet?, where do I learn two handed axes?.

Classic is so old, it's new... to those that played it, and the millions that never did. BfA was WQ? Check. Artifact/Azerite power grind? Check. 12 hours of leveling to max level? Check. Crafting unimportant? Check. Only the new features got attention... Island Expeditions, etc.

I mean we only have 11 weeks til we find out. But I'm pretty sure, without a doubt, that Classic launch is going to break records with it's viewership on Twitch... beating out BfA launch by a great deal.

[rimatrash]

I don't think twitch and streamers have anything to do with design flaws, they just use the popularity of the game for views.

Also you're saying some things that don't directly correlate with twitch at all.

There's no design flaws, the game is great imo.

[Aggrophobic]

I wondered if someone would catch that.

Glad to know people are actually reading my posts! Thank You!

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Wait wut?

BfA beta could not be played by anyone but testers/streamers. Classic BETA has MORE viewers than BfA Beta had. Proven.

BfA launch COULD be played by the players.. but still broke records.

Does it not directly relate.. that if Classic beta is garnering more viewership than BfA beta... that it is quite possible Classic launch will also outperform BfA launch?

I mean, your obvious disdain for Classic and your BfA penchant aside... you should agree with common sense?

Want more reason as to why people will want to watch Classic on Twitch more than BfA?

Learning. There is so much about Classic that players want to know. Class choices, leveling strategies, PvP strategies, how do I train my hunter pet?, where do I learn two handed axes?.

Classic is so old, it's new... to those that played it, and the millions that never did. BfA was WQ? Check. Artifact/Azerite power grind? Check. 12 hours of leveling to max level? Check. Crafting unimportant? Check. Only the new features got attention... Island Expeditions, etc.

I mean we only have 11 weeks til we find out. But I'm pretty sure, without a doubt, that Classic launch is going to break records with it's viewership on Twitch... beating out BfA launch by a great deal.

The amount of force needed for the facepalm could litteraly kill me. Takes a lot of effort not to hurt myself when I read your texts here.

[Popastique]

Of course Blizzard would start designing WoW around twitch.tv and streamers. After all, they are the ones who create free publicity and hype for Blizzard's products and get them record sales... but is this publicity really free?

Nope, it comes at a very steep price for the entire game design of WoW.

Some things, by their nature, are fun to experience firsthand but not very fun to watch. Building a character for slower-paced, more strategic combat is not very fun to watch. DHs zooming around at 200% speed and spamming "insta gib" abilities, however, entertains people.

Raids by their design should not be very fun to watch since they require lots of repetition and wipes to complete. Moreover, they have a lot of individual downtime as different players handle different mechanics. Blizzard's solution? Design raids around twitch.tv. One shot raid wipe personal responsibility run rampant all for the sake for satisfying people who want to spam "LOL POGGERS WHAT A LOSER" in chat when someone inevitably fuck ups and wipes the raid. Why bother designing clever mechanics when bosses can just be series of one shot mechanics being spammed in every direction?

There's more. M+ is without a doubt tailored to please the speedrunning community which is, not surprisingly, also found on twitch.tv.

But worst of all? Twitch.tv breeds rabid fanboy culture and it seeps into the actual game. When was the last time you played a raid or a m+ without some 12 year old kid spamming "POGGERS OMEGALUL YIKES SCUFFED" all run long?

Stop designing the game for idiotic twitch culture and you'll see immediate improvement.

Smoking weed is bad, stop doing it ...

[Taeldorian]

If blizzard listened to twitch personalities the garbage we call titanforging wouldn’t be in the game anymore. We’d have vendors back, we’d have better class design, we’d have some RPG elements added back that got removed in the game of QoL but only watered down the game, etc. Streamers aren’t responsible for what we have now, they’ve been arguing against what we have since legion and the BfA beta.

When BfA was announced the usual hype surrounding expansions just wasn’t there, at least not on these forums. There was way more hype for argus and 7.3 than BfA honestly, a lot of people were trashing on the name and the blizzcon presentation in the pre patch thread. The hype just didn’t feel as strong as previous expansions. Then we got into the beta and it was pretty obvious how things were gonna turn out especially when they didn’t allow us to test azerite until the very end of the expac even though it was supposed to fill the gaps and play a big role in class design. People were very apprehensive when blizzard said they weren’t going to be working much on class design but they just removed 3 huge spec specific gameplay systems, many were skeptical about this.