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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    If I remember correctly this region was overseen by Malta.
    Libya has its own MRCC. But its quite clear what happened . The boat picked the economic migrants up in Libyan waters and contacted the Maltese MRCC instead of the Libyan. Because the Libyan MRCC would have demanded they set course to Tripoli or Misratah

  2. #122
    I don't know the evidence, but if there are people in danger in the sea, you MUST save them. Anyone saying the opposite can fuck off.

    After that, it is a matter of the law where they end up.
    The courts will decide if the captain of the ship went to the correct legal destination.
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  3. #123
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    I will give you an example - Eritrea. It is not a warzone, but it would be really hard not to understand getting the hell out of there.
    Please show me where on Mediterranean Sea is Eritrea's coastline.

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    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    I don't know the evidence, but if there are people in danger in the sea, you MUST save them. Anyone saying the opposite can fuck off.
    If you can't tell difference between saving people and trafficking them 2000km from one side of sea to another, you can do what you just suggested.

    She wasn't saving them to save them. She coordinated with traffickers that intentionally sunk boats near African coast line, picked them up and instead of returning to country of origin that is nearby, she ferried them across the sea to Italy. That's not saving, that's trafficking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.
    No, world needs fewer human traffickers, not more.
    Bow to your Gnomish Overlords! Attempting to take over Azeroth since 2005.

  5. #125
    The Undying Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Please show me where on Mediterranean Sea is Eritrea's coastline.

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    If you can't tell difference between saving people and trafficking them 2000km from one side of sea to another, you can do what you just suggested.

    She wasn't saving them to save them. She coordinated with traffickers that intentionally sunk boats near African coast line, picked them up and instead of returning to country of origin that is nearby, she ferried them across the sea to Italy. That's not saving, that's trafficking.

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    No, world needs fewer human traffickers, not more.
    No fuck that she’s a human being I would do the same thing.

    Allowing indifference to let people die who never done anything to me and don’t mean me harm is stupid. I don’t care where they are from their skin color, gender or orientation.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    Except it is not human trafficking. No matter how many people echo it (Who somehow all come from the same political leaning). It is assisting to illegal border crossing. At worst human smuggling. But human trafficking it is not by definition.
    Victims of human trafficking are eligible for T visa. So when you hear someone charged with trafficking what happens is:

    the immigrants get visa. and when the case gets to court, the smuggler is not found to be trafficker but smuggler.
    (don't know what happens to the visa afterwards, but I doubt it gets revoked)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_visa
    Last edited by d00mGuArD; 2019-06-13 at 08:28 PM.
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Please show me where on Mediterranean Sea is Eritrea's coastline.
    Do you think there is a straight route to Europe? There is reason they use smugglers and go hundreds of kilometers through deserts. And I fail to see what it has to do with the fact that there are places where you run away from even without war. Which you, for some reason, did not even dispute, which makes your question even stranger.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    Victims of human trafficking are eligible for T visa. So when you hear someone charged with trafficking what happens is:

    the immigrants get visa. and when the case gets to court, the smuggler is not found to be trafficker but smuggler.
    (don't know what happens to the visa afterwards, but I doubt it gets revoked)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_visa
    So the courts and governments would massivly shoot themselves in the food, if they consider it trafficking?

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.
    Sure fuck the poor elderly and the sick in my own country right because that is what you saying. Their is no good thing here Somebody is going to suffer for her actions or inactions. And i rather that the economic migrants suffer then my own people

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    She did the right thing she is a Good human being vs all the other POS condemning her. The world needs a lot more of her.
    No, we don't. We already have idealistic and ignorant fools aplenty. What we need is people that come up with actual solutions to the core problem, not people that profile themselves as samaritans on the back of people back home without solving anything for anyone, refugees included.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Do you think there is a straight route to Europe? There is reason they use smugglers and go hundreds of kilometers through deserts. And I fail to see what it has to do with the fact that there are places where you run away from even without war. Which you, for some reason, did not even dispute, which makes your question even stranger.
    Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by tankbug View Post
    If a person is from Bulgaria or something, and want to move to the Nordics, that's fine. Bulgaria is a functioning, stable country, where everyone can get all the papers they need for legal entry. But if you grew up in a poor village in the middle of a war zone where every day may be your last, you might not be able to get a passport and such, or have enough information on the formality of the process. Give these people a break.
    Nah, bro. They're "economic migrants," because they managed to scrape together literally all the money they had in order to pay a trafficker to help get them to another country. If they were really refugees, they wouldn't have any money in the first place! Duh!


  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    Sure fuck the poor elderly and the sick in my own country right because that is what you saying. Their is no good thing here Somebody is going to suffer for her actions or inactions. And i rather that the economic migrants suffer then my own people
    The same greed and utter fucking stupidity is responsible for both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    No, we don't. We already have idealistic and ignorant fools aplenty. What we need is people that come up with actual solutions to the core problem, not people that profile themselves as samaritans on the back of people back home without solving anything for anyone, refugees included.

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    Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.
    The same thing that makes you think you’re entitled to rape, pillage the free world of everything to support your life. I see why you have a problem with this.
    "Intellect alone is useless in a fight...you can't even break a rule, how can you be expected to break bone" Khan Singh

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Nah, bro. They're "economic migrants," because they managed to scrape together literally all the money they had in order to pay a trafficker to help get them to another country. If they were really refugees, they wouldn't have any money in the first place! Duh!

    You're trying sarcasm on people who already believe literally what you've just said.

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Amadeus View Post
    The same thing that makes you think you’re entitled to rape, pillage the free world of everything to support your life. I see why you have a problem with this.
    Ok, act like an idiot then, that's fine.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Do you think they're entitled to a life in Europe? Are you smoking crack? The world doesn't work like that. Never has, won't for the foreseeable time.
    And another one making my words up.
    All I said that it is understandable/there are reasons why refugees are not running only from warzones, but from countries at peace too, like my mentioned Eritrea. I never said they are entitled to life in Europe (though by laws Europe is supposed to take care of refugees. In what way, well, there is this huge debate, is there not?).
    P.S.
    It worked in WW2, if you haven't forgotten. A lot of people run away and were not turned back.

  16. #136
    Old God I Push Buttons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylaman View Post
    Should really get rid of the refugee convention, it's a relic of a time that is long gone now. It was made for another world than what currently exists.
    Needs to be amended at the very least.

    Its based on good faith which, as of late, massive amounts of people acting in bad faith take advantage of for their own selfish gain.

  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    And another one making my words up.
    All I said that it is understandable/there are reasons why refugees are not running only from warzones, but from countries at peace too, like my mentioned Eritrea. I never said they are entitled to life in Europe (though by laws Europe is supposed to take care of refugees. In what way, well, there is this huge debate, is there not?).
    P.S.
    It worked in WW2, if you haven't forgotten. A lot of people run away and were not turned back.
    "I never said they're entiteld, but really they're practically refugees, because everyone who is poor is a refugee from poverty" etc.

    WW2 established the concept of refugees IN WARTIMES or AS A RESULT OF WAR and the convention was a tool to legalise the massive back and forth in Europe due to the new borders. Mostly, because nobody had a clue how to verify where everyone was from. We've had millions of Germans driven out of former Prussia by the Russians and other people moved east and it was pretty chaotic without any kind of administration to oversee it all... those are the precedents. The convention is not and never was aimed to allow poor people to move into rich countries. That's beyond the scope of the Geneva convention.

    That most people have no clue what the difference between wartime refugee, political asylum seeker and (economic) migrant is doesn't change the fact that these terms have specific meanings and specific legal status and consequences attached to them.

    So no, these guys are not entitled to move into Europe just like that. I don't give a shit if they starve to death. I don't pretend to be a saint. I will happily oblige laws and help whenever it is reasonable. But what's happening now isn't reasonable. I have always maintained that Syrian refugees is one thing, but that doesn't mean Eritreans should take it as a general invitation to just go and waltz into Europe. They can apply for visas and permits like everyone else. And people like you need to research the shit you're posting here.

    Instead of wasting money on boats and spoonfeeding migrants in Europe (on top of spoonfeeding actual refugees), we shouold spend the money to fix their countries. Alas, they keep blowing themselves up constantly. So at this time perhaps it's time to let evolution run its course.
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by josykay View Post
    So the courts and governments would massivly shoot themselves in the food, if they consider it trafficking?
    No, since Italy and the EU is not part of the US - and only some victims of human trafficking in the US are eligible for T-visa (there are additional requirements).

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    "I never said they're entiteld, but really they're practically refugees, because everyone who is poor is a refugee from poverty" etc.

    WW2 established the concept of refugees IN WARTIMES or AS A RESULT OF WAR and the convention was a tool to legalise the massive back and forth in Europe due to the new borders. Mostly, because nobody had a clue how to verify where everyone was from. We've had millions of Germans driven out of former Prussia by the Russians and other people moved east and it was pretty chaotic without any kind of administration to oversee it all... those are the precedents. The convention is not and never was aimed to allow poor people to move into rich countries. That's beyond the scope of the Geneva convention.

    That most people have no clue what the difference between wartime refugee, political asylum seeker and (economic) migrant is doesn't change the fact that these terms have specific meanings and specific legal status and consequences attached to them.

    So no, these guys are not entitled to move into Europe just like that. I don't give a shit if they starve to death. I don't pretend to be a saint. I will happily oblige laws and help whenever it is reasonable. But what's happening now isn't reasonable. I have always maintained that Syrian refugees is one thing, but that doesn't mean Eritreans should take it as a general invitation to just go and waltz into Europe. They can apply for visas and permits like everyone else. And people like you need to research the shit you're posting here.

    Instead of wasting money on boats and spoonfeeding migrants in Europe (on top of spoonfeeding actual refugees), we shouold spend the money to fix their countries. Alas, they keep blowing themselves up constantly. So at this time perhaps it's time to let evolution run its course.
    Well, maybe then if you lack humanity, you should stop talking. Values of Europe, at least the EU is to give a shit. No ifs or buts.
    And the evolution argument? Ahh, I see, racist too. Your avatar is strangely... not applicable.

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Well, maybe then if you lack humanity, you should stop talking. Values of Europe, at least the EU is to give a shit. No ifs or buts.
    And the evolution argument? Ahh, I see, racist too. Your avatar is strangely... not applicable.
    Are you actually an American trying to lecture me on the moral high ground? Really? How about we ship those 1 million Syrians onto your front lawn then? Because it's your country that's responsible for them in the first place. Gee, thanks mate. Totally great job you did there. I'm not one to whinge about it, but you better shut up about moral standards and what we can or cannot do, Mr. I-live-in-a-country-with-an-actual-racist-democratically-elected.

    Geez, the nerve...
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

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