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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Yeah I'm not gonna defend those. 1660ti is just a weird naming thing. If the 1660 was as powerful as a 2060 just without the RT and Tensor cores I could understand it.. kinda.. But it isn't.
    And 1060 vs 1060 not being the same performance either is equally stupid. Create different SKUs with different amount of VRAM, that's fine, but they should perform the same outside of that. They released a china specific model with 5GB that was otherwise as powerful as the 6GB model which I'm entirely fine with
    It's marketing at its finest. 1660 is a 2060 without RTX/tensor cores - but better make it sound a clearly inferior option so people are attracted by the "better" one

    IIRC they choose 1660 specifically to make it clear they weren't 20xx and to "keep distance" from them, while showing they're better than the 10xx counterparts.

    It's literally 20 > 16 > 10 with 16 nearer to 20 than to 10.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  2. #82
    Old God Low Hanging Fruit's Avatar
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    I would define super as binning the chips in a more refined way. We all know about the silicon lotto and this likely is just fixing the winners and rebranding them and factory pushing them because of the increased performance.

    It will be more expensive of course. Mostly because that is corporate rule 101. Not to mention marketing costs. I doubt it will be worth it for a vast majority of people. Especially if you already have a 20XX card. Feels more like they are just pushing out this lineup to have something launch with AMD cards. The supers will be the top tiers and the reggies can be price adjusted to be direct competition that is still the stronger option.

    At least my wallet is still safe. My 1080ti is still doing me strong.

  3. #83
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    It's marketing at its finest. 1660 is a 2060 without RTX/tensor cores - but better make it sound a clearly inferior option so people are attracted by the "better" one

    IIRC they choose 1660 specifically to make it clear they weren't 20xx and to "keep distance" from them, while showing they're better than the 10xx counterparts.

    It's literally 20 > 16 > 10 with 16 nearer to 20 than to 10.
    Yeah, I get *why* they chose the name.. But the 1660 isn't a 2060 without those cores. It performs worse in every game, even without ray tracing turned on. It's literally just an inferior chip.

    The 1660 gets ~90fps, the 2060 gets ~110. To pretend they're the same chip is about the same as pretending the 2070 and 2080 share a chip

    Edit: The 1660/1660ti use the TU116 chip, the 2060 uses a cut-down TU106, with the 2070 using the full TU106 chip. The 2080 uses a TU104, and the 2080ti/Titan RTX use a TU102

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    Yeah, I get *why* they chose the name.. But the 1660 isn't a 2060 without those cores. It performs worse in every game, even without ray tracing turned on. It's literally just an inferior chip.

    The 1660 gets ~90fps, the 2060 gets ~110. To pretend they're the same chip is about the same as pretending the 2070 and 2080 share a chip

    Edit: The 1660/1660ti use the TU116 chip, the 2060 uses a cut-down TU106, with the 2070 using the full TU106 chip. The 2080 uses a TU104, and the 2080ti/Titan RTX use a TU102
    Yeah, i wasn't talking about raw performance. The whole point was their decision to make an inferior "cheap" product just to lure the people with stricter budget that won't ever tough a 20 serie with these prices.

    Nivida product stack gets more convoluted the more time passes and it's all against customers.

    EDIT: just to be clear, a 1660 would suffice in the majority of cases one aims towards the 2060. Most people are simply deceived by the product name.
    Last edited by Coldkil; 2019-06-20 at 02:15 PM.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  5. #85
    Herald of the Titans Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Yeah, i wasn't talking about raw performance. The whole point was their decision to make an inferior "cheap" product just to lure the people with stricter budget that won't ever tough a 20 serie with these prices.

    Nivida product stack gets more convoluted the more time passes and it's all against customers.

    EDIT: just to be clear, a 1660 would suffice in the majority of cases one aims towards the 2060. Most people are simply deceived by the product name.
    The only thing I can think of is wanting a bit higher refresh rate 1080p gaming. But that's pretty niche since most people with high-refresh rate monitors would just shell out the extra money to actually achieve higher fps than what a 2060 offers.

    And the 2060 definitely doesn't give a consistent 60 fps at 1440p ultra, so yeah, it's in a weird spot and I'm not really sure why people would buy it. Raytracing would be a pretty shitty reason due to the performance hits.
    Last edited by Ahovv; 2019-06-20 at 06:38 PM.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahovv View Post
    The only thing I can think of is wanting a bit higher refresh rate 1080p gaming. But that's pretty niche since most people with high-refresh rate monitors would just shell out the extra money to actually achieve higher fps than what a 2060 offers.

    And the 2060 definitely doesn't give a consistent 60 fps at 1440p ultra, so yeah, it's in a weird spot and I'm not really sure why people would buy it. Raytracing would be a pretty shitty reason due to the performance hits.
    Exactly. RT at the moment is worth only on 2080+ because you have the horsepower under the hood for it and also the budget available to build a machine that will make it work well.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  7. #87
    Holy Priest Saphyron's Avatar
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    At this point I am just heavily confused by the naming strategy of Nvidia, and AMD for that matter.
    Why not make it logical?

    2-4 letter word defines Type.
    4 number that defines Hierarchy.
    2 letter word that defines Special editions (such as TI)
    4 number that defines year of release.

    An example of this would be:
    GTX 1060 TI 2017
    or
    RTX 1060 TI 2018
    or
    GTX 1060 SU 2019
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  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Saphyron View Post
    At this point I am just heavily confused by the naming strategy of Nvidia, and AMD for that matter.
    Why not make it logical?

    2-4 letter word defines Type.
    4 number that defines Hierarchy.
    2 letter word that defines Special editions (such as TI)
    4 number that defines year of release.

    An example of this would be:
    GTX 1060 TI 2017
    or
    RTX 1060 TI 2018
    or
    GTX 1060 SU 2019
    They probably just cannot count of the products they can produce ever being that neat.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  9. #89
    The only card that looks like a sensible upgrade to me is the 2060 because 8GB is where it should have been at from the start.

  10. #90
    Herald of the Titans Ahovv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coprax View Post
    The only card that looks like a sensible upgrade to me is the 2060 because 8GB is where it should have been at from the start.
    Sure, but it's still in weird niche territory. Perhaps the super version can reliably run 1440p, who knows.

    I know I'd hate having a card where I often have to test ultra, see it's dropping to the 50s and then have to go in and tweak settings a lot. I had that a lot with my previous GPU, so I set my goals properly with a GTX 1080 so I never have to do that.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Life-Binder View Post
    yeah they sure priced 5700 accordingly ...


    "I'll buy AMD even if its the same/worse, that'll show Nvidia !"
    Did you actually saw what "SUPER" means hehe cutting 15% of price lol.. you should be Grateful to AMD.. nvidia fangay..i was fanboi too but some things are undefensible..
    Last edited by Ianus; 2019-06-22 at 04:08 AM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Point is, the product stack didn't change at all.
    lolwut?

    GTX 1050 Launch MSRP: 119$ --- GTX 1650 Launch MSRP: 149$ (But there is no 1650Ti)
    GTX 1050Ti Launch MSRP: 139$ --- GTX 1650 Launch MSRP: 149$ (only a 10$ hike for this performance category; entirely attrib. to RAM pricing)
    GTX 1060 3GB Launch MSRP: 199$ --- GTX 1660 Launch MSRP: 219$ (only a 20$ hike for this performance category; entirely attrib. to RAM pricing)
    GTX 1060 6GB Launch MSRP: 249$ --- GTX 1660Ti Launch MSRP: 279$ (and almost no cards were avail. at MSRP, most were 270 so the affective cost here in a wash)
    GTX 1070 Launch MSRP: 379$ --- RTX 2060 Launch MSRP: 349$ (actually cheaper)
    GTX 1080 Launch MSRP: 499$ --- RTX 2070 Launch MSRP: 499$ (same price)
    GTX 1080Ti Launch MSRP: 699$ --- RTX 2080 Launch MSRP: 699$ (same price)
    GTX Titan X/Xp Launch MSRP: 1200$ --- RTX 2080Ti Launch MSRP: 1200$. (same price).

    They just bumped up all prices a notch because of a combination of external reasons (the crypto boom, bloated production of 10 serie, keeping 20 serie price high to make the 10 sell) and the fact there's not much competition if not on the low-mid segment (which moves more units but is less visible).
    Except... they really didn't. The 2060 was even CHEAPER than the product it replaced.

    What replaces what is completely irrelevant.
    uh... wat?

    You're whinging (and yes, i meant whinging, not whining) about "they raised the prices..."

    except they didn't.

    You cant compare the product in position X in the first product stack against the product in position Y on the next stack and then complain the price went up.

    You compare a product with its replacement. The card in X portion of the stack cost (A) amount in the previous generation, and the card in the X position in the new generation is... (A) amount or damn close, with price increases being 10-20 bucks in most cases and easily attributable to manufacturing costs increasing.

    It's just a crap move for customers that will have to buy a lower tier card due to inflated prices while not gaining anything meaningful in performance.
    .... wut?

    The 1650 beats the pants off of the 1050Ti (but still isnt worth buying, with the RX 570 being so damn cheap)
    The 1660 trounces the GTX 1060 3GB
    The 1660Ti beats the 1060 6GB handily.
    The 2060 beats the 1070.
    The 2070 is where it starts to lose momentum, with the 2070 only being ~8-10% faster than the 2080
    The 2080 is the same speed as the 2080Ti (and the same price)
    The 2080Ti crushes the 2080Ti and Titan Xp (as those two cards were actually nearly identical in performance to one another).

    Most of the stack is a solid move forward over the previous card.

    What it wasn't, and what most people seem to be whining about, is a big enough increase to merit an upgrade from the 10 series.

    Thing is, this is entirely normal.

    Prior to the big jumps from the 7-9 series and the 9-10 series, the rule was basically that when a new product stack released, the new Halo and Enthusiast cards would be significantly more powerful than their predecessors, and then everything else would basically move down one step...

    E.G. - The GTX 770 was analogous to the GTX 680 in performance.

    Prior to the 9 and 10 series jumps, it was the norm for there to only be performance increases at the top two, MAYBE 3 SKUs, and only the top 2 to be large. For the better part of a decade!

    The only reason the 9 series and 10 series jumps happened was due to die-shrinks and an entirely new architecture COMBINED with an additional die shrink.

    So, the 16/20 series simply put us back to normal, where the only real "performance gains" are at the top, with everything else just shifting down one product segment.

    This... is not actually a bad thing, from a consumer perspective and i wonder why it makes people so angry. It means that if you invested in a good mainstream or better card, you basically get to get more out of your investment as you dont have to upgrade every generation and can afford to skip a generation or even two before you upgrade!

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    RAM pricing
    I'm sorry? 12 Gb/s GDDR6 is cheaper now than 8 Gb/s GDDR5 was when 10 series launched.
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  14. #94
    The Insane Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kagthul View Post
    GTX 1070 Launch MSRP: 379$
    ON PAPER .. yo.
    In reality, I nabbed a 1070 OC @ 485€ in Nov 16 and it was a friggin bargain.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    ON PAPER .. yo.
    In reality, I nabbed a 1070 OC @ 485€ in Nov 16 and it was a friggin bargain.
    Not too bad

    MSI GeForce GTX1070 Gaming X 8G 8GB 444,54 €
    i7-6700K @ 4.6GHz | ASRock Fatal1ty Z170 Gaming K6+ | 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4-3000/CL15 @ 3200/CL14 | MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X | 256GB Samsung EVO 850 PRO | 2TB WD2003FZEX | 2TB WD20EFRX | Creative Sound Blaster Z | Thermalright Silver Arrow IB-E Extreme | Corsair RM650x | Cooler Master HAF X | Logitech G400s | Tt eSPORTS POSSEIDON | Kingston HyperX Cloud II | BenQ XL2411T

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