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  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I guess I don't know who to feel about this. What's the need or want to make this change? Does it make the math easier and faster for the game to run?

    If going from this new Level 60 ( currently 120 ), to max level now being 70 takes the same amount of time as keeping it level 120 to 130, what's the point?

    If it's to change to the talent tree with this level squish I sort of get that, but instead of changing the level numbers, just redo the talent tree differently
    Hust to waste time, and say that they did something for the sake of not being accused of not doing anything.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    As someone else in the thread already mentioned, "paragon levels" already exist in the form of Artifact Power. The only problem with AP is that it's expansion specific, and not a persistent part of character or account progression. The moment the next expansion releases, all your "paragon levels" disappear.

    In that regard the game could definitely use something more permanent in terms of level-capped progression. But leveling past cap, whatever form it takes, will be a completely separate system than basics leveling from 1 to cap, and I don't think it has much bearing on the discussion about a level squish.

    Blizzard does need to be VERY careful about what form they present the level squish in. If it's just the exact same content, but levels take 5x the amount of time ding, then it will end up being worse, in a lot of ways. At least with 120 levels you get the illusion of progress by gaining each level quickly. If they change it to a smaller number, like 60, but make each level take longer to get, people will get discouraged and feel like they aren't making any progress.

    Personally I almost think they should do away with the concept of experience entirely, and just award levels with the completion of story progress in each zone. That way progress would shift from an arbitrary experience value to actual progress through the story of each expansion.
    again they shown in the questionare more or less how long it will take.

    120 hours .

    or 40 euro boost as equivalent of those 120 hours.

    they have assigned +/- exact monetary value to each hour of leveling this way.

  3. #463
    The Patient Rathwirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Are we just assuming that the OP's purported email is "true?"

    A lot of you seem to be putting the cart before the horse, here.
    People are still thinking this is fake? Lol. This must be what it's like to to make vaccines and have people think they're a bad thing.

  4. #464
    I feel it's just a visual change i highly doubt the amount of time it take to reach lvl 120 now will be reduced if they change it to 60 and also the premise that new players don't start wow cuz they had to level a char to 120 instead of 60 (or whatever would be the new cap) is laughable that will only affect a small group of veterans that get pissed when they want to level an alt.

    New players won't join wow cuz is an old game, with an outdated graphic and in general because mmos aren't hot stuff anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  5. #465
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathwirt View Post
    People are still thinking this is fake? Lol. This must be what it's like to to make vaccines and have people think they're a bad thing.
    I remain skeptical of any information that comes from anonymous nobodies. Especially considering that nobody but you and reddit dude have apparently received the survey.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    With paragon levels, you can make it so that those aren't really required as gear can take over for max level. You can use concordinence from Legion as your example. That is automatically 100 times better than removing a bunch of levels because a few whiners are afraid of big numbers.

    As for what progression other than numbers is being taken away, none because the big progression is taken away. All you have left is gear and the squishes there aren't so bad because level numbers still remained to preserve progression as it was from day 1. Squish levels and progression is totally destroyed.
    You seem to be under the assumption that a level squish is squishing stats as well.

    Let's say they half the levels
    So you are now level 60
    The only progression you lost is the "illusion" of progression.

    I get it though. You place value in the big numbers
    But it's basically a cosmetic change.

    We don't lose stats
    We lose like a number in a counter that is basically used to mark "hey I'm closer to the cap"

    Paragon levels make me just feel bleh because it's 0 progression outside of what you said like concordance.....who liked that mechanic??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorachus View Post
    I guess I don't know who to feel about this. What's the need or want to make this change? Does it make the math easier and faster for the game to run?

    If going from this new Level 60 ( currently 120 ), to max level now being 70 takes the same amount of time as keeping it level 120 to 130, what's the point?

    If it's to change to the talent tree with this level squish I sort of get that, but instead of changing the level numbers, just redo the talent tree differently
    Personally I just think it's to help with the perception of the leveling being a "huge grind"

    I'm ok with something like the levels being halved because let's face it....if you go to BFA content and you see "3leveling zones" with 10 levels you may feel thrown off.

    Telling a player they just need to get 5 levels it may feel better and heck I think it even makes more sense since we've been 20 levels with 0 permanent character progression.

    New talent tree can be like 1 every 5-10 levels in a 60 level system which could be a tree similar to classic

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    again they shown in the questionare more or less how long it will take.

    120 hours .

    or 40 euro boost as equivalent of those 120 hours.

    they have assigned +/- exact monetary value to each hour of leveling this way.
    Current speed from 1 to 110 is ~20-30 hours. Of they jack that up to 120 hours no one will ever roll an alt without a boost ever again.

    This isn't vanilla. Classic has It's own dynamic for people who want that level of stupid grind. It has no place in modern wow.

    Then again, judging by how money grubbing and design-by-spreadsheet they've been in the past few years, maybe they want it that way. Maybe they think it's a good idea.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    Paragon levels make me just feel bleh because it's 0 progression outside of what you said like concordance.....who liked that mechanic??
    It actually really depends on what rewards you get for each paragon level. If it's an increase in stats then it's worth doing, especially if you gain paragon levels passively by doing any activity at cap.

    But it could be other things: Reputation with various factions, emissary chests, mounts, pets, gold, gear, unique xmogs, etc. Blizzard could use paragon levels to apply almost any kind of reward the game currently has, or they could do something completely new with it.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-06-18 at 08:55 AM.
    Sylvanas has left the Guild.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    You seem to be under the assumption that a level squish is squishing stats as well.

    Let's say they half the levels
    So you are now level 60
    The only progression you lost is the "illusion" of progression.

    I get it though. You place value in the big numbers
    But it's basically a cosmetic change.

    We don't lose stats
    We lose like a number in a counter that is basically used to mark "hey I'm closer to the cap"

    Paragon levels make me just feel bleh because it's 0 progression outside of what you said like concordance.....who liked that mechanic??
    No, I place value in what I earned and don't want it taken away from me. Level number gives me a visual reminder and real feeling of how far I have come all I have accomplished becuase I started back in classic. A level squish takes that feeling away regardless of what stats are. I don't want that feeling taken away from me because a small number of whiners don't like big numbers. You want to fix the leveling problem? Give more rewards/talents as you go along and try to make the levels a little quicker to achieve. The number of levels isn't the issue. It's the time it takes to earn those levels. Fix the latter, don't touch the former.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    It actually really depends on what rewards you get for each paragon level. If it's an increase in stats then it's worth doing, especially if you gain paragon levels passively by doing any activity at cap.

    But it could be other things: Reputation with various factions, emissary chests, mounts, pets, gold, gear, unique xmogs, etc. Blizzard could use paragon levels to apply almost any kind of reward the game currently has, or they could do something completely new with it.
    This. Far superior idea than the idiotic level squish.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by chaoticcrono View Post

    Maybe its just too hard for people to count and so maybe a lower number will help those people.
    Yes, I always get stuck at 78, I can't comprehend the leveling after that and just start a new character hoping I can learn to count higher.

  10. #470
    The Patient Rathwirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I remain skeptical of any information that comes from anonymous nobodies. Especially considering that nobody but you and reddit dude have apparently received the survey.
    Sure, if you ignore all the other people who have chimed in here, there, Wowhead, and and on the official MMO-C post about getting the survey too.

  11. #471
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathwirt View Post
    Sure, if you ignore all the other people who have chimed in here, there, Wowhead, and and on the official MMO-C post about getting the survey too.
    I haven't seen any of those; it's all been people speculating about it.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I haven't seen any of those; it's all been people speculating about it.
    It's been on reddit and across many streamer and youtube videos.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post

    This. Far superior idea than the idiotic level squish.
    I don't know that the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

    It's entirely possible to cut down on the number of levels required to reach cap while making each level more meaningful, but then also have a system after level cap similar to paragon levels.
    Sylvanas has left the Guild.

  13. #473
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    It's been on reddit and across many streamer and youtube videos.
    And like I've said, they all seem to be reporting that "some group of people have received this survey; it wasn't me, but I heard about it. Here look, this one guy on reddit said so."


    Once Blizzard out and says something about it, I'll believe it. Until then, it's just another case of "The Dark Below" being the next WoW expansion...
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #474
    The Insane FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I am completely sure this is still a thing. At least it was when i levelled my KT druid.
    no, the wod perks were removed, as was artifact traits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eleccybubb View Post
    Azerite is absolutely RNG you are right. You have no idea what traits will be on that piece you got from a random source until you roll it. I've literally had a Warfront piece that had the "opposite faction" passive and no passive/proc for my spec but it did for the other 2.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Current speed from 1 to 110 is ~20-30 hours. Of they jack that up to 120 hours no one will ever roll an alt without a boost ever again.

    This isn't vanilla. Classic has It's own dynamic for people who want that level of stupid grind. It has no place in modern wow.

    Then again, judging by how money grubbing and design-by-spreadsheet they've been in the past few years, maybe they want it that way. Maybe they think it's a good idea.
    .
    that question/info is in this survey - confirmed by bellular showing it in his video .

    so we are looking at leveling rework and 120 hours to get to max level.

    and naive people belive its "cause 120 is big number"
    Last edited by kamuimac; 2019-06-19 at 04:45 AM.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    that question/info is in this survey - confirmed by bellular showing it in his video .

    so we are looking at leveling rework and 120 hours to get to max level.

    and naive people belive its "cause 120 is big number"
    Well, all I can say is that if level cap is 60 and each level takes 2 hours.....then every level damn well better have something more than just a talent. And level cap better not make all previous levels meaningless.

    All in all I can't really see them pulling it off. Better to make leveling to cap fast and painless, and focus on making post-cap progression as deep and meaningful as possible.
    Last edited by SirCowdog; 2019-06-19 at 05:22 AM.
    Sylvanas has left the Guild.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    again they shown in the questionare more or less how long it will take.

    120 hours .
    Fuck that noise. That's all I have to say about that. >_>

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