[Survey] Level squish IS coming per Blizzard

[DarkAmbient]

They're going to harmonise levels between classic and retail. A neat psychological trick that makes retail seem more attractive by comparison: "Look how much content you get for 60 levels!" Then when TBC servers go live they'll raise retail level cap to 70, and so on.

[Onikaroshi]

The only thing that matters is the time it takes to level. Since they have a lot of ways of shuffling numbers around while keeping things the same, we should really wait to see the final result before complaining about, or praising, the squish.

1 to the Squished level will be almost exactly the same a 1-120 now, you can bet on it.

[vertigo12]

I think what the game gave credit to its name is the availability of zones it has to offer over a span of leveling experience. When 2 more expansion were introduced, one of the primary reasons why many supported it and became a fan fan of those two games is a relatable and familiarity of what story has been established.

The third expansion had to repurpose some of the least visited zones although some of it are already popular, they try to update those places to thematically coincide with their envisioned remake.

The fourth expansion introduces a new setting and vibe which is unlike the rest has to offer. Similar to an undiscovered island hidden from the sight of the populace, the feeling of a new world and horizon, a sense of exploration and conquest come along with it.

That's just only a couple of sentences to highlight what this game has been known for. They just have to intelligibly and ingeniously give their classic and vintage masterpiece a new seat cover, a new paint job, an upgraded engine and perhaps get the latest tech on their entertainment system to give this car the feeling of coolness and freshness it needed and say it's certainly is the the car we have enjoyed and used to travel miles and miles of distances and lots of time together yet it feels new at the same time.

[Krille]

I think what the game gave credit to its name is the availability of zones it has to offer over a span of leveling experience. When 2 more expansion were introduced, one of the primary reasons why many supported it and became a fan fan of those two games is a relatable and familiarity of what story has been established.

The thied expansion had to repurpose some of the least visited zones although some of it are already popular, they try to update those places to thematically coincide with their envisioned remake.

The fourth expansion introduces a new setting and vibe which is unlike the rest has to offer. Similar to an undiscovered island hidden from the sight of the populace, the feeling of a new world and horizon, a sense of exploration and conquest come along with it.

That'a just only a couple of sentences to highlight what this game has been known for. They just have to intelligibly and ingeniously give their classic and vintage masterpiece a new seat cover, a new paint job, an upgraded engine and perhaps get the latest tech on their entertainment system to give this car the feeling of coolness and freshness it needed and say it's certainly is the the car we have enjoyed and used to travel miles and miles of distances and lots of time together yet it feels new at the same time.

You generally can't have both. For the game to be considered new, they need to think outside the box and come up with something new. They should keep PVP and PVE elements (raids, dungeons, arena, BGs) but the progression system needs a drastic overhaul. Talents, spells, abilities, stats.. Basically the entire character stat sheet system needs a rethink and modernisation.

You can't achieve this by not making drastic changes, and it will hurt for some people that actually enjoy the current game.

[vertigo12]

You generally can't have both. For the game to be considered new, they need to think outside the box and come up with something new. They should keep PVP and PVE elements (raids, dungeons, arena, BGs) but the progression system needs a drastic overhaul. Talents, spells, abilities, stats.. Basically the entire character stat sheet system needs a rethink and modernisation.

You can't achieve this by not making drastic changes, and it will hurt for some people that actually enjoy the current game.

So they have to go the path of "break glass in case of emergency" kind of direction so that which is broken can be made whole & new once again???

[Enosh]

I'm indifferent to the whole thing, but the one thing i'm sure of is that they will fuck it up and implement a version that will make no one happy

[Gadzooks]

They can't exactly whip out a whole new world (I mean Azeroth) in 1-2 years. Of course we are heading to the point where the old world has to reborn or something, but if the old world reborns, wouldn't that involve a level squish? i know for sure paragon levels are not for me, that would mean the end of wow for me. If anything, THAT is illusion of progression. You still would have an arbitary number after your player level, because others and you too have to distinguish a paragon level 12 player from a paragon level 122 player. I'm so tired of rental progression systems that are illusions of real, tangible systems.

Edit: remaking the old world has it's own problems. Creating a new world with new rules is easy, players usually accept it. redoing something players love and have been loving for a decade on the other hand? Just look at cataclysm. How many more players can they afford/willing to lose for "idiotic" reasons like how barrens looks like after deathwing vs. before? So losing players that are not flexible at all when it comes to Azeroth. Azeroth is Azeroth is Azeroth. Period. :/ Even if they present the best leveling experience (which would require something new to questing, yeah, good luck with that), with the most beautiful graphics, they would probably still get backlash. it's basically setting themselves up to failure.

You're not wrong. There's no easy fix here, which is why they're choosing the illusion of a fix. I'm choosing to use that word very carefully, because to me it's the most accurate. They can't fix the game, not easily, so they're looking for way to make it seem like they are. Paragons aren't the best thing in the world, but it already exists in the gameplay in WoW, with mythic dungeons - the only thing that changes is the number of your key, which tells the game to make the dungeon harder. It's just one way they could try to fix the game, not that I have any expectations of them doing it. I think the amount of money and dev time to truly try to fix the game is simply not going to fly, budget-wise, even with Brack at the top now.

They painted themselves into this corner, and there's no easy way out. My point was and is, a level squish is just an illusion, it won't "fix" anything, not that I have any rational solution to their mess.

[khazmodan]

I'm indifferent to the whole thing, but the one thing i'm sure of is that they will fuck it up and implement a version that will make no one happy

100% agree, these are the same bad developers led by a lawyer (Ion Hazznoclue) and an angry smirk (J. Allen Bricksforbrains) that keep on doubling down on terrible ideas while adding new terrible ideas.

[Fred Skinner]

A level squish will not fix the issues with leveling.

Leveling should just be more rewarding. As like if you level up you could get a mount or a pet, gold, items, skll upgrades, unique rewards for transmog etc. etc.

Also, the leveling regions should all scale, and allow players to choose freely where to go. Then, content should be replayable at endgame level. Also, dungeons and battlegrounds should be a valid alternative to questing.

Well, battlegrounds without items giving any advantage, to allow new players to not get roflstomped, that is.

For endgame leveling in a new expac, all factions should be account bound. Blizzard asks too much when alts need to replay all faction grinds.

Former expacs dungeons and raids should become solo player raids and dungeons as an alternative for questing. You want to level up running icecrown from level 70-80? Sure, just go for it.

A real bad design in World of Warcraft is that the story of new regions always ends in a dungeon or even raid, which means whenever you relevel a region, you never will see the final plot.

And only because the devs want raiding to be a thing.

If you think about it, WoW is really bad designed when it is about availability of content to solo players, and people who level do that solo most times.

[vertigo12]

100% agree, these are the same bad developers led by a lawyer (Ion Hazznoclue) and an angry smirk (J. Allen Bricksforbrains) that keep on doubling down on terrible ideas while adding new terrible ideas.

Lol'ed hard at that Hazznoclue mockery..

[javierdsv]

They are just trying to test waters with some reactions before they ruin the game again.

[Yes but actually no]

I'm coming round to the idea of a level squish regarding old content in a way because if done correctly it removes A LOT of the power inconsistency you just ignore because of "game mechanics" ie level 85 boars being stronger than the Lich King.

There is a massive disconnect with the world because of the way wow works systematically, only current continent is relevant because that's the max level stuff, once you outlevel a zone that's it bye bye you will almost never come back to it. I think that's a key part of why so many enjoy the notion of classic, you had 2 continents which were relevant, you may outlevel the starter zones and the low-mid zones but as a whole it felt like it was an actual world, not just 1 small continent like we have now.
(bfa may have 2 continents but it's a grand total of 6 zones which is 1 continent in any other expansion before anyone tries that, plus outside of world quests and traveling to a dungeon/raid entrance i don't feel any need to visit the other factions continent)

Imagine if outland, northrend, zandalar,pandaria, broken isles etc were ALL relevant at the same time. The possibilities for crafting professions and the economy if people were all over the world farming materials from all zones in all continents rather than just the small number of materials of the current expansion.

Only way i could see it working for WoW though is a total mass revamp of practically everything from the ground up, which being realistic i can never see modern blizzard ever doing, they can't even be bothered to finish classes before an expansion launches now and treat releases as open betas.

If they did do it though and did it properly we could have one hell of a massive "new" content spike, some of the legacy raids remade as proper end game 5 man dungeon content, maybe remade as alternatives to current raids as a side progression type thing.

But that's me being way too optimistic.

[Fred Skinner]

Oh, and another thing.. collecting professions should always allow people to collect the mats based on their skill level. No matter where they quest. I see that as bugfixing, and not as feature.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Oh, and another thing.. collecting professions should always allow people to collect the mats based on their skill level. No matter where they quest. I see that as bugfixing, and not as feature.

What do you mean by always? You mean like you always get your most relevant gathering drop and nodes are generic? Or are there zone specific nodes I don't know about?

[vertigo12]

Oh, and another thing.. collecting professions should always allow people to collect the mats based on their skill level. No matter where they quest. I see that as bugfixing, and not as feature.

But currently the crafting mats say cloth drops, are tied to an expac and the zone it is related which not unlike vanilla type of cloths where a huge variety is t play i.e. fel cloth, mooncloth, etc.

Netherweave should logically and strictly be farmable in Outlands.

[MrLachyG]

um reading both questions again:

"Are you aware that the maximum level of 120 will be reduced in the future?" "How much would you like or dislike a reduction in total character levels?"

so if the level squish is DEFINITELY happening, why ask if we would like or dislike it? if enough people dislike it will that mean that they will scrap the idea?

[Krille]

um reading both questions again:

"Are you aware that the maximum level of 120 will be reduced in the future?" "How much would you like or dislike a reduction in total character levels?"

so if the level squish is DEFINITELY happening, why ask if we would like or dislike it? if enough people dislike it will that mean that they will scrap the idea?

I don't think they would go back on it. But definitely want to gauge player opinions for how they plan it. And i also don't think a majority of players are against a level squish.

[MrLachyG]

I don't think they would go back on it. But definitely want to gauge player opinions for how they plan it. And i also don't think a majority of players are against a level squish.

I mean the main reason is that people don't feel that levelling is rewarding. which it kinda isn't - new talent every 15, new ability every 3-4 levels. if they do it and totally revamp levelling then it could be a good thing. was watching a youtuber earlier who pointed out that if you play Horde in current retail you have Garrosh as the warchief from 1-60, then Thrall from 60-80, then back to Garrosh from 80-90, then Voljin and Sylvanas. A more streamlined levelling system that actually makes sense (as they suggested move the BC/Wrath content to Caverns of Time with a "you want to look at the past" type thing) where the timeline makes sense would be a lot better. I have a feeling we will see a world revamp next expac anyway so would be a good time to do it

[Fred Skinner]

What do you mean by always? You mean like you always get your most relevant gathering drop and nodes are generic? Or are there zone specific nodes I don't know about?

That means, that the nodes are giving yields based on your skill level. As like you mine a node, and it if you have skill level 1, you get copper. No matter in which region you are.

Currently, gathering professions are a real mess in leveling. Either, you do just not care, as they are not relevant anymore, or you outlevel your skill level and do not find mats you need anymore. The leveling pace should include the collecting profession. Which means both you should be able to find enough mats for crafting easily, and be able to combine mats for items which would be useful to you.

Probably, blizzard should think about making all gathering professions available to anyone. I mean, which logic speaks against the idea a single char would be able to buy a pickaxe to mine, skin animals with a knife, gather herbs and disenchant items or scrap items with a mobile scrapper?

The whole collecting profession concept is highly outdated. You should always find the mats your skill level allows you to. Also, the profession slots should be limited to crafting professions. You could be a tailorer and enchanter, or a leatherworker and an alchimist, or a engineer and a smith, for example, with one or the other synergy. While gathering would be something every char could do. And would not have to learn seperately.

And really, the crafting professions need an overhaul too. It is a horrible misconception to limit good patterns to raid drops. Infact, great craftable items should be available to anyone who invests effort to collect the mats. As like you find the golden gnome eating flower and some holy water, combine it, and et voilat, you get the big potion of gnome transformation. No matter if you ever found a pattern. That gives a lot of mystery, and people would test combinations. You find a lifebloom and buy somer water and a vial, combine it, on your skill level 1 as an alchemist, and et voilat, you get a small healing potion. THAT would be immersive crafting. And not the idea you had to collect recipes from the big yoghurt who sits in a dungeon, guarding his recipe for feet balm.

Also, crafting great items should be available to anyone. And not just be available to a mythic raider who manages to defeat goober the horrible, who drops the epic bowl of real big weapon enchantments for some reason.

[Lei]

That means, that the nodes are giving yields based on your skill level. As like you mine a node, and it if you have skill level 1, you get copper. No matter in which region you are.

This is terrible. So with maxed out mining skill I wouldn't be able to mine low level mats?