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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    Would not fix anything.

    And if you want 2, why not all 3? And just remove the talent trees all together? Same logic.

    Even if I had all the talents of my spec at the same time it would still be boring.
    There are some instances where it actually would fix a lot, so much of the talent trees either should be or actually used to be baseline abilities that have been given back to us as "talent choices" i mean looking at classes like my main shadow:

    • T1- Shadow word: Void talent should be baseline, right after they said that shadow was going to have to wait for a patch for changes during bfa alpha because of no time for changes they slapped out a last minute fury rework and quite literally gave fury warriors 2 charges on raging blow because "Having 2 charges baseline felt better, as a version with either a 6 or 7.5 sec cooldown but no charges meant it collided with Bloodthirst's cooldown very frequently," You could change raging blow to mind blast and bloodthirst to void bolt and it is the exact same issue while shadow priests were forced into having a legendary to fix that same "feels bad TERRIBLE" now we have to take a talent for it in bfa.
    • T1- Shadowy Insight should be a baseline proc to actually give the spec some sort of variance (now that i remember, along with a second charge they also made it so raging blow even can reset its own cooldown and grant a new charge of it! so yeah give mind blast the same raging blow treatment) merge shadow word: void and shadowy insight into 1 and make it baseline.
    • T2- Intangibility should be baseline again, body and soul should be baseline imo
    • T3- Twist of fate should be baseline imo especially with how shadow currently works, plus as it is has always been a problematic talent in whatever tier it's been in until now where it's been nerfed so much that you only pick it when the other 2 talents are quite literally a waste to pick, (single target only)
    • T4- Psychic horror should be baseline again
    • T5- Shadow word: Death should be baseline again...
    • T6- only tier that doesn't actually have a previous baseline unless you count artifact void torrent, kinda forgettable tier but mindbender shouldn't exist, Lingering should probably be a baseline passive
    • T7 - Legacy of the void should be baseline

    This would make the class feel way more complete and less shallow than it currently does, and it's not exactly hard to refill the spots of those talents with new ones, there are so many fantastic talents we have lost over the years that could instantly replace it, off the top of the head some options, spectral guise, devouring plague (disgusting as a talent but it would be better than never having it again), clarity of power, angelic feathers, reverse life grip, glyph of mind blast roots, cascade, halo, dark archangel, void tendrils hell they could dedicate an entire row to vampiric embrace giving it historic versions, the proper aoe healing cd, an always active passive leech option or even something wilde like giving you insanity on each heal or something.

    Warlocks are the same where about 2/3 of their talents are previously baseline abilities or passives, could probably go on for a few of the specs.

    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post

    sorry, but i disagree with this statement. I am happy with the talents and most people are, the problem started with the removal of legion leggos and artifacts...
    Even with artifacts and legendaries i struggled to find a class or spec i enjoyed playing because they all played like crap, the problem for me started with legion pre patch where it started this shallow and hollow class design for every spec.
    Last edited by Yes but actually no; 2019-06-14 at 03:48 PM. Reason: raging blow not furious slash

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Jujudrood View Post
    DISCLAIMER: Full on opinion down yonder. If you get offended by people disagreeing with you, just stop here.

    Talents are useless.
    Here, pick 1 of 3 things that may or may not affect anything you do on a regular basis, change dto pick 2 of 3? Meh, just more passives (yawn) or suddenly some specs become godlike.
    Cool balance, guess we gotta neuter them so picking 1 and 2 isn't so much better than 1 and 3 or 2 and 3. Meh.

    Even the old trees wouldn't help a damn thing.
    What, spending 5 points to get +5% crit? So immersive.
    Picking talents I don't want to get to the ones I do? Stellar.

    Some classes simply play like horseshit, which is why I and most of my raid team got bored.
    It's not the content; BoD was pretty fun actually.
    Dungeons are what they are, about middle of the road as far as design and such.
    But playing some classes just...yuck.

    How to fix quickly in a patch?
    Remove the CD/GCD change so several specs aren't clunky and ugly to play.
    - Too many specs have dead time in their rotations that break the flow, just feels bad.
    Give Legion artifact abilities to all specs BASELINE, then add back the talent they took away to fit it on talent rows, where applicable.
    - These were crucial for some, nice to have for others, and rounded out rotations while making playing more fun.

    Those two alone are minor implementations.
    Would balance get haywire? Maybe.
    Is it haywire now? Yarp.
    Does it feel like "more talents" to some whose artifact ability is a talent already? Probably.
    But most specs are a mess, spending multiple GCDs in their rotation doing nothing because they need to activate more crit, like "FURIOUS ATTACKS WOOOOO .... hold please ... OK MORE FURIOUS ATTACKS WOOO".
    It didn't slow gameplay, it made it clunky.

    I mean, the story is still awful, but there's really no fixing that.
    Warfronts and IEs fell flat, but *maybe* heroic Warfronts can be a fun organized activity (instead of the LFR snoozefest they are today).
    But it won't matter if they made them the best content ever if people feel awkward playing their favorite class.
    I agree with talents. But.

    Removing CD/GCD is not going to fix anything. In fact, it will bring back old problems.
    Not too many specs have dead time in ther rotations: rogues (3), DKs (not that much as rogues) and a hunter BM (only a little) and maybe WW monk a little. So no.
    Legion artifact abilities were mostly unrelated to rotation button to press. Tho I wouldn't mind having them back, but I don't miss them in a slightest. And some of them are now as talents.

  3. #43
    [QUOTE=RemasteredClassic;51302345]I was not talking about content, but game play. That is a whole other mess for another post.

    - - - Updated - - -
    So shouldn't the title of this thread be "How to fix Bfa GAMEPLAY in 1 minute" ?

  4. #44
    Stood in the Fire Resentless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    I actually agree, I think the current talent system is being wasted as it is. A lot of specs just pick the same build or change 1-2 talents depending on the content, and thats it. Totally wastes all of the potential class changing interactions the other talents could bring. I was thinking before they announced essences that the neck should allow you to slowly permanently unlock some talents, but this essence system is ok. I do hope they do something with talents though. Maybe give us all a legendary ring/trinket that permanently unlocks a talent like the legion one, at least.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post
    No they were not.

    Yay +3% spell damage.... Wow.. Exciting
    That's a false.

    Because yes, they were.

    Not all of them were like that. Warriors for example got Bladestorm, DKs got Breath of Sidnragosa etc. They were better because you not only were getting a nice ability, but also a bonuses, like the one you mentioned above - EVERY level.

  6. #46
    Merely a Setback Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    World of Wisconsin
    Nah no thanks I already hate most of the talents classes have I don't want to need two of them.
    WoW: Wyrmrest Accord - Alliance
    FFXIV: Crystal Datacenter (Balmung & Mateus servers)
    "In the spirit of education, the first thing I would like to impress upon you is one of the most surprising lessons I learned: Public speculation is always wrong. Always." - John Staats, The WoW Diary

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    That's a false.

    Because yes, they were.

    Not all of them were like that. Warriors for example got Bladestorm, DKs got Breath of Sidnragosa etc. They were better because you not only were getting a nice ability, but also a bonuses, like the one you mentioned above - EVERY level.
    While i am on your side of the fence regarding old talents you will never ever convince people who prefer the new system, they will always only focus on the filler talents as being "boring" regardless of the fact that getting absolutely nothing at all as you level up is infinitely more boring to you and i than a 1% crit talent which makes you one step closer on your way to that sweet 31 talent.

    Honestly though as pro old system as i am i genuinely do not believe it could work with modern wows level cap. Unless they followed the cata revamp we would be hitting over 100 points to spend which means you would need like 150-200ish different points that could be spent total in EACH tree (so you actually have a choice in the tree rather than just taking everything), per spec.

    We have the level squish thing being talked about more now but even hypothetically if that were to happen and we went back down to 31 range starting from level 10 you have the new class functionality to consider,

    The resurgence of hybrid builds which were never the hybrids that people think they were, it was really just taking x and y from a different specs tree to combo, (sm ruin vanilla warlock for example) not a druid speccing both into dps and can switch to healer when needed that only truly came with the tri spec system.
    Druids have 4 official specs now feral and guardian aren't the same tree, would this need to come back?
    Demon Hunters only have 2 specs, pretty much every demon hunter would be tanky as they would have say 31 in havoc and 20 in venge (give or take maybe 5 or 6 points) as a dps spec
    So many class abilities are now spec locked (i am all in favor of this not being the case but thats how blizz have made it)
    Quite a few other things are now spec specific, while trivial these days you have legion artifacts to consider which are spec specific, you have weapon skills that are spec specific, even glyph/books that are spec specific (why tf can i not use water shield toy as elemental? Water shield was the big reason i started an ele sham alt in wotlk)

    To revamp it all into a cata style talent tree would be too big a can of worms for blizzard to bother with i think and i think it would need to be the cata version over pre cata with how they deal with roles these days in group content.
    Plus once you get into the region of a cata style talent tree you're eliminating the entire reason we want that type of system, gaining something every level. Maybe that's why the level squish is being considered come to think of it, a cata style talent tree where max level is back down to 60 could work and be viable for a few expansions.
    Last edited by Yes but actually no; 2019-06-14 at 10:12 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i think my fix is better.
    Shut down the servers.
    pull up the wrath of the lich king game files. Find the files with the classes and skills. "ctrl-c". Go into bfa files, "ctrl-v". On the overwrite prompt. Press yes.
    start up servers

    this, but add the new classes with his new talent trees and races...

  9. #49
    Herald of the Titans TheWorkingTitle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    This would completely break the game. You're actually close to what's wrong, but the real problem is class abilities in general that have been pruned.

    Every expansion since WoD, Fire Mage has lost abilities. Now it's a hollow husk that only feels somewhat fluid by taking every ability talent. Talents are now filling the vast void that the multiple prunes left in their wakes, and so in BFA you fill the void out with talents, but then you're sitting there wondering where the other ~30% of the class is. PvP abilities do not make up for it, doubly so when they're not usable in two of the biggest areas of gameplay (dungeons/raids).

    What needs to be done is to give the majority of the baseline abilities back to all the classes. Then classes will feel fleshed out, and then you can bolster your base class with specialization talents, like it used to be.
    You think you don't, but you do

  10. #50
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Nova Scotia
    The old talent trees wouldn't work in today's climate anyway. Not only would we have an absurd amount of talent points to deal with, but the games deviated into an entirely different direction. Earlier iterations of the game focused more on the class as a whole, and not the identity of each individual talent tree within each class (there are exceptions, and there should be). While there are some 'core' abilities that cross over between each individual spec within a class, it's not nearly as rampant as it once was. This happened in the past as well, but people within the same class fucking fight with one another when their preferred talent specialization ends up being stronger. WoW right now might as well have 36 classes honestly.

    You could systematically go back and change nearly 15 years of progress though if you really wanted to. Rogues, mages, hunters and warlocks for example would simply be those classes again. You would have to trim some shit obviously, but you could consolidate a lot of the abilities into the single class. Right now on live if you're an outlaw rogue, you really don't have that many abilities (even compared to Vanilla/TBC). If you were however to combine all three rogue specs together and just treated a rogue as a rogue, you could probably do talent trees again (probably need that level squish as well).

    Lets not pretend that old talent trees were super interesting though either. My major gripe is the flavor of classes have been muddied over the years in favor of hyper focusing an individual class into a particular sub-spec.

    On another note, GCDs on CDs being everywhere is probably the worst thing they've ever done.

  11. #51
    hah, really interesting )

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