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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by oathy View Post
    its gone nastier, Owing to my disability i play wow via a special mouse and basically owing using 3 fingers.
    made me a slow player but always knew what to do etc. the past 7 months the amount of times someone
    has just been downright abusive in LFR "why you so slow C***"

    Main reason I wont join a guild because I dont want to explain the situation when there's no need.
    if i was suddenly playing bad i would just stop, but you see it with other players also if the item level isnt high enough
    people start a vote to kick in LFR!!.

    New players ask a basic question and they get destroyed can truly see why people just dont bother using chat.
    That's what struck me about Classic people were being friendly and helpful was really lovely seeing it
    I also play EU and generally I am not seeing what you're seeing. I occasionally see new players ask "noob questions" in general or trade and barring one or two idiots who might come up with a sarcastic, unhelpful answer, there's generally a fair few people actually give helpful answers, maybe one or two might even provide tips or advice.

    I've also done LFR, fucked up in LFR and I've seen slow, slow people in LFR and I've not seen them be abused because of it. Not like you say. Being called a slow c**t just... I'm not saying you're lying, but I wonder if we know the full story either? It can happen, but extreme reactions like that are, in my experience at least, very rare.

    Main reason I wont join a guild because I dont want to explain the situation when there's no need.
    A huge advantage of a guild is that people know you, your abilities, and what you're like as a person. A guild is, in point of fact, the best place for a disabled player because they'll be surrounded by people who are understanding of them. We have a raider in our guild with chronic fatigue syndrome who is slow, but we understand and accept this aspect of them. Outside the guild people may assume they are slacking, but we know better.

    I think that, also, if you do choose to join a guild, you should explain your disability if you believe it'll impact your ability to play. It's only fair. Good guilds are based on mutual understanding and cooperation.

    Pugs on the other hand are dog-eat-dog and can't be bothered to understand you.

    I wouldn't say the community has gotten worse per se, I'd just say that the impersonal nature of LFR and LFD is that fostering meaningful relationships is so utterly pointless that people tend to show their more callous sides towards others.
    Last edited by Will; 2019-06-16 at 08:59 PM.

  2. #202
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I also play EU and generally I am not seeing what you're seeing. I occasionally see new players ask "noob questions" in general or trade and barring one or two idiots who might come up with a sarcastic, unhelpful answer, there's generally a fair few people actually give helpful answers, maybe one or two might even provide tips or advice.

    I've also done LFR, fucked up in LFR and I've seen slow, slow people in LFR and I've not seen them be abused because of it. Not like you say.
    Not sure if its possible to access the old forums on the WOW EU site but one incident was so nasty I posted on the frostmane section about it.
    did just have a look but noticed since the revamp it seems very limited

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I also play EU and generally I am not seeing what you're seeing. I occasionally see new players ask "noob questions" in general or trade and barring one or two idiots who might come up with a sarcastic, unhelpful answer, there's generally a fair few people actually give helpful answers, maybe one or two might even provide tips or advice.

    I've also done LFR, fucked up in LFR and I've seen slow, slow people in LFR and I've not seen them be abused because of it. Not like you say. Being called a slow c**t just... I'm not saying you're lying, but I wonder if we know the full story either? It can happen, but extreme reactions like that are, in my experience at least, very rare.


    I think this is your problem. The whole advantage of a guild is that people know you, your abilities, and what you're like as a person. A guild is, in point of fact, the best place for a disabled player because they'll be surrounded by people who are understanding of them. We have a raider in our guild with chronic fatigue syndrome who is slow, but we understand and accept this aspect of them.

    I think that, also, if you do choose to join a guild, you should explain your disability if you believe it'll impact your ability to play. It's only fair. Good guilds are based on mutual understanding and cooperation.
    I think what adds to the issue, is someone asks "what on earth is "server time"?" and what ppl see is 2-3 ppl reply in trade or general with a smart ass answer, what they DONT see is the 2-3 ppl who PM the player saying "hey mate, mouse over the time on your minimap, it should have local time and realm / server time".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by oathy View Post
    Not sure if its possible to access the old forums on the WOW EU site but one incident was so nasty I posted on the frostmane section about it.
    did just have a look but noticed since the revamp it seems very limited
    If you have an issue in game, you should be reporting the incident - in game. Going to the forums wont help at all but just cause more drama. If you are having issues with someone on the forums, there is a system in place to address those concerns there as well, and again, it doesnt require a thread about it. You have two options - ignore it, or take action by using the systems put in place to address concerns like these.

  4. #204
    Herald of the Titans
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    This OP got absolutely butchered for this nonsensical post
    Sylvaeres-Azkial-Pailerth @Proudmoore

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post

    Absolute garbage - why do you people keep forcing this lie so hard? You compare random LFR ppl with Ninja looting and getting kicked from guilds. And lets talk about the ninja looting thing for a second - To ninja loot, you need to be master looter. To be master looter, you need to be either the raid leader, or, assigned by the raid leader. Anyone in the group can check the loot system at any stage, and the loot system cannot be changed during combat. For them to "get away" with ninja looting, they would need to invite the required number of players, all who are so stupid they dont check the loot rules, and dont question it once. Now, master looter was the standard in my experience, and every single person who joined the raid would ask "loot rules?" to which the RL had a macro, which was usually "Nothing locked MS > OS" or, possibly, "[item] locked all else MS > OS". Now a screenshot of that sent to blizz with the RL taking the loot for themselves was typically acted on i believe, so i really dont think any kind of self regulation by the "community" happened, and i certainly dont think it was effective.

    What i did see is an awful lot of people crying "zomg Bob ninja looted!" only to find out that this person joined the pug half way through, didnt check loot rules, and was not aware that Bob had made it very clear that [item] was locked. I believe if you join a pug, it is your responsibility to confirm loot rules before starting, and it is your responsibility to report the player if they choice to break the rules.

    The system worked. The only examples of true ninja looting i ever experienced was at the hands of GUILDS. Nothing locked, run going great, a weapon that the RL needs, or, even worse, the RL GF needs, rolls are done, pug wins, item is given to RL GF instead - that is ninja looting. High end guilds were and are notorious for their loot shenanigans - nothing here has changed.

    Well I'm sorry, but the amount of times I've seen raid leaders give themselves loot and leave the raid once Deathbringer's Will or Death's Verdict dropped back in WOTLK was laughable.. guess you didn't have a similar experience, but I sure did.

    Usually that ended with a few people spam shaming the ninja looter on trade chat to make sure nobody joins his raid again.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelcryo View Post
    Why I think WoW is so bad is because not only do Blizzard not really do anything about toxic people but also because with LFR/LFD you're unlikely to ever see those people again.
    I'm sure there is truth to this. However, I actually use LFD/LFR to avoid toxicity. If bad behavior is going on, it's easy to just quietly drop group and be in another group in minutes. The next group typically is fine.

    Personally, I find mythic+ to be more toxic. When people are behaving badly there, you grit your teeth and endure it because it takes a long time to get in and if you leave you screw over all the people in the group. The irony is that mythic+ was supposed to fix the social problems caused by LFD.

  7. #207
    Dreadlord salate's Avatar
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    I'm always positive towards the game, I love WoW, I've seen it on its peak, I've been there when everything was dead (sitting on dead realms). Everyone here knows about its ups and downs.

    But I have to agree that people became somewat aggressive towards each other, well, atleast in M+, you can find really funny fellas or run with total douches/leavers/flamers. If you dont follow up "some cool method tactics everyone know" you are true noob and dont deserve to climb up. They leave, say something like "wtf are u doing, stupid", well, people sometimes have supa high expectations, partly its understandable, they dont wanna waste their time, but...

    Well, looking at the internet community, alotta people are just toxic. That's it, lets just find people around who make our days better, make people around us better and... That's all we can do, we can try to change things, but It's almost impossible

    Or possible? Who knows, even if you will start "super positive thinking and non-toxic movement" some people will start trolling just because thats how some people behave.
    step into everything will gief ya nothing, mon

  8. #208
    Field Marshal Bearded Sith's Avatar
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    At least someone agrees with me.


  9. #209
    I've played on both EU and NA realms and I'm not being biased here - people generally are far more toxic on NA. I don't know what it is exactly that causes it. You'll still get the occasional knob on EU, especially in battlegrounds, but it's generally not so bad. Vote kicking is fairly rare, too.

    On NA servers people just seem less chilled and far more easily agitated or ready to slag others off from my personal experience. I did it odd because in face to face communication I usually find Americans more friendly than your average European. It's like a coin flipped for both regions.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Bearded Sith View Post
    At least someone agrees with me.

    Hehe, that DLC is one of the funniest ones. Most fun is the AH

    Douché and edgystab
    Zandalari theme ftw! PURE GOLD!

    Horde bad, smash, monkey! Who is a good monkey? You are!

  11. #211
    No offense but I feel you're way too dramatic. Solution to this is as easy and simple as it gets: join a good guild.

    There's always a guild for all types of people and mindsets. Once you get a guild to do stuff with you won't ever feel the need to pug anything or at least make you way less encouraged to.
    Thanks for the heads up!

  12. #212
    It can be hard to grasp but A 75 year old person can be less mature than a kindergarden kid.

    And it is actally a crime to curse/say fu! etc both in Blizzard's eyes & the police. slander is never ok, I don't even harass people that destroyed/destroy my life because it would be illegal for me to do so.
    Last edited by Nulos; 2019-06-24 at 11:21 AM.

  13. #213
    Do people really complain at undercutters on the AH? Man, my mailbox would have been overflowing back when I played, lol.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Will View Post
    I've played on both EU and NA realms and I'm not being biased here - people generally are far more toxic on NA. I don't know what it is exactly that causes it. You'll still get the occasional knob on EU, especially in battlegrounds, but it's generally not so bad. Vote kicking is fairly rare, too.

    On NA servers people just seem less chilled and far more easily agitated or ready to slag others off from my personal experience. I did it odd because in face to face communication I usually find Americans more friendly than your average European. It's like a coin flipped for both regions.
    I wonder if that's because of no language barrier. Let me play a devil's advocate here:
    - When I play on EU and someone does not react to any in-game chat, I might assume the person does not know English. There are some top players who are clearly very skilled but do not understand English at all.
    - If I played on US, and someone did not react, I'd take it as a sign of hostility, and would be more likely to act hostile myself.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by dope_danny View Post
    That ship has sailed. A persistent game can always improve from patching or changes but can a single person here name a game that has a poisonous swamp of a userbase that got better? anygame? a single one?

    Its a running joke right now in FFXIV for example of "spot the wowfugee" and it ain't always someone with a name like "arthass lichkinge" or "princess sylvanus" but often it is, even when it aint its a pretty basic checklist:
    -spaming "GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGGO" and ninja pulling packs as DPS, because to the WoW mindset a pug exists to facilitate MY good time
    -Not waiting for MP on the healers, because to the WoW mindset the concept of 'the party only moves as fast as the slowest member' is a challenge, not a reminder.
    -Instantly dropping group on the first wipe. A huge exclusive idea to WoW that is utterly alien in a lot of other mmo's. You wipe and whatever its a game. Dust yourself off and get back to it. Or lose your mind for no reason and ragequit like a child, but this shit started in Wrath and we all know that ain't no new trend
    -Use of terms like 'faggot' or 'homo' because you notice when you play other mmo's WoWs community has a fixation with those two words comparable to tweens on xbox live
    -A complete and utter refusal to stop for 30 seconds to listen to mechanics. You see this in places where bosses have one shot mechanics and nope, no time for love dr jones we gotta GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO, wait wtf we wiped?!? time to drop group, its the only way to be sure!
    -Keeping silent out of some fear that any minor error will lead to the party exploding at them or kicking them outright. This one here is a fucking blight in WoW and in games like XIV its again totally alien. New players have a green leaf near their name and get called 'sprouts'. Its encourage to ask questions because the mindset is "we were all new once upon a time" not the aforementioned "you exist for MY good time, bow down and obey serfs!".

    So you see players come to other games and go "i didn't know people could be this friendly or patient" and its not some hippy commune its the bare minimum of fuckin' manners. The issue for WoW of course is simple: you can't walk it back. Developers can promise to 'reduce toxicity' but heres the crux of the problem.

    1: In WoW you are not all your shit on one character. You don't have a static name and face which in turn has a reputation. Any character can effectively be a burner character in the longrun and people are a lot more likely to spend real money on a race/name change after burning a bunch of bridges or roll a new character than maintain a server rep. Because theres no reason to anymore with CRZ.
    2: The 'I learned it from watching you!' syndrome. We have people that started in Cataclysm seeing the assholes in wrath and people afraid to deal with it who assumed it was the norm and propagated the behaviour. Then players in pandaria start playing and see it even more wide spread and like a blotting effect it only got worse because theres no way to be punished really and thats only gotten more true as times gone on and server culture has eroded so much.
    3: There isn't really any ingame reasons to do so. FFXIV has a vote at the end of each dungeon for commendations. These tally up and unlock things like cosmetic gear and mounts so if you see a newer player with a gold magitek walker they probably have impressed some people in some fashion. Then you have professions which are their own classes and have specialisations and gear and quests so there are people entirely playing the game as crafters outside the main story quest and they get known for being the best at the things they are good at and since professions are not completely useless there and much more in depth it again creates a culture where the nice people succeed the dickheads don't.

    I mentioned before in the FFXIV section but after Warlords killed my interest in WoW for reasons totally seperate to this issue and i dont need to explain for anyone who experienced that cobbled together frankenstein expansion i only saw one major attempt at WoW level asshole behaviour. Early on when ARR launched you had legacy servers and new servers. My new server actually got caught in what can only be described as a 'hostile takeover' by some french goons from Something Awful. They wanted all english speakers to leave the server and were spending all their time crashing the marketboards to make things worthless.
    So people did the smartest thing. They absolutely blacklisted them. They stopped using the market. 3 big german Free Companies focussed on crafting became a grey market. You need something made? well crafter A knows crafter B who can do it, but crafters A and B need some materials for other jobs so you get them you get your items, but beyond that if you farm up wool or crystals or whatever and pass them on? well thats effectively currency to get more stuff and a reliable farmer will get deals.
    It took a month or two but eventually the first raid came around and these goons suddenly had a problem: Nobody would raid with them, they couldn't get their materia melded in their gear since they all wasted their time crashing the market rather than work on any high end proffession stuff and before there were tons of guides and wikis they didn't know how to do a lot of stuff and couldn't ask because they were blacklisted. Their push for toxic control had lead to a prison of their own design. So they abandoned the server and moved to Balmung or Moogle, whichever is the reddit/4chan erp cringe server and people started putting stuff up for 4000% what it was before and the market evened out. All because people refused to let asshole behaviour become the norm and chose to work together instead.

    But the difference of course is thats a server. With cross realm zoning not only do you not need to do that you dont even need a server community at all. So when everything is a videogame equivalent of a dine and dash how do you ever clean up people that have learned being a dickhead because you can, or being a dickhead because better to be the one doing it first before it happens to you over 15 years?
    It's a shame FFXIV is so ugly and has that boring east Asian look, otherwise I would try it out.

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