1. #1

    How to fix WoW's lack of content without creating new content

    Level squish to level 70 permanently, even after new expansions come out. New content always set to 60-70, old max level content set to level 60 with the option of turning on scaling to 70 on all old max level content selectively.
    Last edited by RemasteredClassic; 2019-06-13 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #2
    I guess?

    All the old content is set to scale now anyway, it'd just involve tweaking those numbers.

    Players can't complain simultaneously about the leveling experience being too long and that they don't feel like they're progressing their character. At this point we kind of have to pick one.

    Would the current leveling speed drop to compensate for that at all?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I guess?

    All the old content is set to scale now anyway, it'd just involve tweaking those numbers.

    Players can't complain simultaneously about the leveling experience being too long and that they don't feel like they're progressing their character. At this point we kind of have to pick one.

    Would the current leveling speed drop to compensate for that at all?
    Current leveling speed should be dropped BUT, make mobs harder to kill, not only by giving them more HP, but making them fight with AI tech...I mean even a team of 2 people was able to put together a wow bot to play the game for you, why would blizz not be able to make mob fights be more interesting and harder.

    This would make the game take LONGER, but in a much more FUN and CHALLENGING way. Basically do not require more XP per level from players just to make it take longer, but make it more interesting and it would automatically take them longer. Win-Win.
    Last edited by RemasteredClassic; 2019-06-14 at 12:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Lack of content isn't the issue right now even though said content is boring(IE's, WF's, WQ's). The real issue is gameplay and classes right now. No amount of content they add will mean shit if my class and the overall gameplay experience is terrible. That's their big problem right now and generally some others outlined below.

    - GCD change
    - Pruned abilities
    - Class identity
    - Classes thematically

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Current leveling speed should be dropped BUT, make mobs harder to kill, not only by giving them more HP, but making them fight with AI tech...I mean even a team of 2 people was able to put together a wow bot to play the game for you, why would blizz not be able to make mob fights be more interesting and harder.

    This would make the game take LONGER, but in a much more FUN and CHALLENGING way. Basically do not require more XP per level from players just to make it take longer, but make it more interesting and it would automatically take them longer. Win-Win.
    So basically, boars that jump around like idiots and randomly go immune at 0 health are what you're looking for? Because that's the level of AI I see in the Island Guys, unless you're foolish enough to fight them right in front of their boat.

    Also wait, levellng is too slow? I definitely don't agree with that and in fact once you max-level one toon Heirlooms should open immediately.

  6. #6
    Legendary! Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crono14 View Post
    Lack of content isn't the issue right now even though said content is boring(IE's, WF's, WQ's). The real issue is gameplay and classes right now. No amount of content they add will mean shit if my class and the overall gameplay experience is terrible. That's their big problem right now and generally some others outlined below.

    - GCD change
    - Pruned abilities
    - Class identity
    - Classes thematically
    This right here.

    We have plenty of content, problem is it has no replay value because the gameplay is a dumpster fire.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyrinx View Post
    So basically, boars that jump around like idiots and randomly go immune at 0 health are what you're looking for? Because that's the level of AI I see in the Island Guys, unless you're foolish enough to fight them right in front of their boat.

    Also wait, levellng is too slow? I definitely don't agree with that and in fact once you max-level one toon Heirlooms should open immediately.
    Jumping AI is meant for PVP only. Boars don't do PVP.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    This right here.

    We have plenty of content, problem is it has no replay value because the gameplay is a dumpster fire.
    No matter how perfect and cool the gameplay would be, it is not going to fix shit content anyways. Played all 36 specs in the past, and found myself a perfect one in BfA that I absolutely enjoy the most - Demo lock. From MoP till this day, this is hands down the best spec for me, in all of the aspects.

    Does that make World quest any better? NOPE - Im not even doing emissaries.
    Does that make Island Expedition exciting? NOPE
    Does that make me wanna do Warfronts? NOPE
    Does it affect Pet battles? No.

    Did that make me wanna do M+? Yeah, a bit, because I found M+ to be relatively fun until I hit a wall where everyone wanna 2x Rogue and Monk. But that is more of a problem of M+ design and the fact they overtuned rogues (generally melee specs).

    So the content I was left with was raids - but once that's was cleared i completely lost interest.

    So stop with this delusions - if content is shit, gameplay/class balance has not going to fix it or make it any more interesting.

  9. #9
    By having things that are actually fun and interesting to do, not different levels of chores.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    No matter how perfect and cool the gameplay would be, it is not going to fix shit content anyways. Played all 36 specs in the past, and found myself a perfect one in BfA that I absolutely enjoy the most - Demo lock. From MoP till this day, this is hands down the best spec for me, in all of the aspects.

    Does that make World quest any better? NOPE - Im not even doing emissaries.
    Does that make Island Expedition exciting? NOPE
    Does that make me wanna do Warfronts? NOPE
    Does it affect Pet battles? No.

    Did that make me wanna do M+? Yeah, a bit, because I found M+ to be relatively fun until I hit a wall where everyone wanna 2x Rogue and Monk. But that is more of a problem of M+ design and the fact they overtuned rogues (generally melee specs).

    So the content I was left with was raids - but once that's was cleared i completely lost interest.

    So stop with this delusions - if content is shit, gameplay/class balance has not going to fix it or make it any more interesting.
    You're right. The best example of this is Vanilla (not trying to start a Classic vs Retail argument). Vanilla had some glaring issues but most of those faults were tolerated because the "experience" and game play were significantly compelling. When I read a lot of the complaints about Retail, though they may be about one thing or another, it's pretty clear to me that what people are really complaining about is a lack of compelling gameplay.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensa1 View Post
    You're right. The best example of this is Vanilla (not trying to start a Classic vs Retail argument). Vanilla had some glaring issues but most of those faults were tolerated because the "experience" and game play were significantly compelling. When I read a lot of the complaints about Retail, though they may be about one thing or another, it's pretty clear to me that what people are really complaining about is a lack of compelling gameplay.
    Not entirely correct. When vanilla came out - everything was new.

    Thing is, after all these years there are parts of wow that just didn't change. The overall look & feel did not change much.
    After all this time we know that there are going to be raids and they are going to work pretty similar way it was before.
    Dungeons have trash and bosses. Quests. Remember when world quests were released? Everyone was hyped because it was new aspect of CORE game.

    So no matter what they do, 80% will be the same as it was before.
    Your champ will look similar, you still have the same amount of gear slots. You will basically know how drop works. How targeting works. How nameplates, buffs, debufs works. You get the idea of instants, casts, channels. Raid frames, target frame, target castbar. Frontals from bosses. Interrupts. You know that pool of fire does hurt. And a trillion of similar small things that were present in the game for so long.

    Now to summarize it with 2 words: game engine did not change (it was upgraded, but still works the same).

    In legion I took a break and tried Tera Online. I don't want to debate if it is a good game or not but it had really lot of aspects completely unknown to me - NEW.
    Like having underwear as gear slot, like all spells being AOE that you just have to target yourself. Of course core MMO aspects were there like quests and dungeons but it felt completely new experience.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Players can't complain simultaneously about the leveling experience being too long and that they don't feel like they're progressing their character.
    I don't think the leveling experience is too long, I went 1-120 in 1d18(or8) hours on my mag'har. The leveling experience feels like shit though because of scaling.
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -updated 2/8/2019

  13. #13
    Legendary! Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post

    So stop with this delusions - if content is shit, gameplay/class balance has not going to fix it or make it any more interesting.
    Tell that to the people who've been happily playing the same counterstrike maps for 15+ years because the gameplay is fucking excellent.

    The content in this game isn't shit, there's just not a whole lot of it, and what there is tries to make you replay the same thing over and over just on a different difficulty setting... The gameplay is just poorly designed and balanced, and therefore the game is not fun once you've gone through the content, because playing the game at it's most basic level isn't fun enough on it's own to hold interest once you've seen all the content.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2019-06-15 at 04:14 AM.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  14. #14
    Toying with this idea a bit, it could be really interesting.

    Imagine only having ilvl increases leading through the expansions. To attune for raids, you have to do the appropriate quests on each continent.

    There's an alternate server idea in there for sure.

  15. #15
    Pit Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Current leveling speed should be dropped BUT, make mobs harder to kill, not only by giving them more HP, but making them fight with AI tech...I mean even a team of 2 people was able to put together a wow bot to play the game for you, why would blizz not be able to make mob fights be more interesting and harder.

    This would make the game take LONGER, but in a much more FUN and CHALLENGING way. Basically do not require more XP per level from players just to make it take longer, but make it more interesting and it would automatically take them longer. Win-Win.
    I consider Fun and Content to be more in the lines of actual content that is both Fun and Engaging. Not whether it takes me another five minutes to whack something down. Challenge is one thing, but is only Fun if the Challenge is not just more whack the mob. This what truly makes the current mess less rewarding. Once you have whacked down the same thing, doing so again is not Fun, it is boring as hell, because you learned just how many whacks it will take the next time the whacking needs to take place. Problem with Blizzard and their race to the endgame content is the lack of actual thought and engagement beyond dungeons and raids. Once person levels through the content, they are given the options of world bosses and World Quest, or prior Dailies. Which once you have done the same thing over a six month to a year or more that same thing is just boring as hell. The problem beyond this comes with the same scenario each and every content patch. Only difference is the mob one is now whacking down and different mobs to complete World Quest, but the same exact concept and logic applies.

    Repetitive game play is only Fun if the content itself is engaging, not whether it is more difficult to whack a mob down five minutes later than it was previous able to be whacked down, hence why the whole M+ dungeon is nothing more than increasing mob difficulty with a few added twist at each level or so. I am happy that people that love such a thing have that content, but once I have done a dungeon on normal or heroic, I largely try to avoid having to go in them past having to complete a quest. Blizzard has made WoW so dumb down over the years to the point of people getting bored out of their minds and whining for more content, but the new content is not really any different content, it is just different zones with the same mobs but with a different skin.

    The model they been using since WoD and Legion has now run its course. Hopefully the next expansion gets some new types of concept or I may have to pack in playing WoW. That would be a first for me, since starting to play this game in mid-TBC. At this point, just making things more difficult to complete, that were not really Fun and Engaging to begin with is not going to be enough for many that thirst for far better content than what has largely been delivered over many years now.

    The sandbox needs new sand put into it and the story needs to be more in line with the art content that is being delivered. The Art Department of Blizzard does a far better job of creating an atmosphere for the content, than the rest of Blizzard WoW team spends on story and content that should be far more engaging and compelling, given what the Art Department is able to deliver time and time again. Just making beautiful zones is not going to cut it when the content in those zones is truly lacking in every possible way.

    This game started out as a journey that got turned into a horse race to the endgame. There are far more ways to avoid doing any and all content, than actual meaningful content to provide the people who truly enjoy the journey have to complete. When Blizzard abandoned the concept of journey long ago, they turned WoW zone content into nothing more than dailies and World Quest, which to a point many just completely abandon and moved on to dungeons and raids. All that art and world simply sits there after some period of time with hardly a soul to occupy it and keep it alive and thriving.

    8.2 is not really giving the player new and exciting as well as engaging content. The story is brief and the content, well the content does not come close to the amount of pets and mounts that once can acquire from said content, which is really pathetic when one give some thought to it. It no longer takes more than mounts and pets to keep most of the players engaged and paying for the game. The never ending thirst for content has been reduced to the amount of pets and mounts being offered as content now.

    I don't think Blizzard really knows what to do with WoW, other than continue to make a never ending cash cow. Legion was the closest they have gotten in many years to providing a compelling and engaging story throughout the content being offered, then they pump out the latest garbage. The zones are amazing, the detail is engaging, breathtaking, and a constant Aw and WoW at every turn, the actual content within does not even come close to meeting the same level of standard.

    No, difficulty in and of itself is not make something Fun and Rewarding, that is what the content itself is suppose to deliver and achieve.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Tell that to the people who've been happily playing the same counterstrike maps for 15+ years because the gameplay is fucking excellent.

    The content in this game isn't shit, there's just not a whole lot of it, and what there is tries to make you replay the same thing over and over just on a different difficulty setting... The gameplay is just poorly designed and balanced, and therefore the game is not fun once you've gone through the content, because playing the game at it's most basic level isn't fun enough on it's own to hold interest once you've seen all the content.
    PvP in general is a different story because technically each game is different.

    Yes content is shit. Most of it. And no, gameplay is not going to fix them, is is NOT going to make me play it. I have found my perfect spec this expansion. Did not change my mind in the slightest because doing something repetitive and not challenging is not fun.

    No amount of godlike gameplay would make me wanna do world quests/warfronts/island expeditions. Gameplay has absolutely nothing to do with it. In the best case it can make me loose interest in something 10% faster.

  17. #17
    Make questing regions replayable at max level.

    As like you would choose you want to replay the westfall region, you would fly there, talk to a npc, which would offer this quest:

    Quote Originally Posted by Quest
    Welcome back Adventurer,

    we still have a lot of problems here in Westfall. Would you like to rejoin us in our battle?

    Please choose:

    1.) Yes, but i want a real challenge together with my friends [no flying, no crz, rock hard monster]
    2.) Yes, but i want a real challenge alone [flying, crz, hard monsters]
    3.) Yes, and i want the normal experience. [flying, czrz, normal monster difficulty]

    You will be rewarded with:
    Great cache of the Gnoll slaughterer
    Also, completed quests would give a currency reward, random items and gold. As higher the difficulty, you would get more random items and gold, but the cache would stay the same.

    Additionally to that, horde players could buy a (very obvious) alliance player constume and relevel alliance regions. As alliance players could buy Tauren costumes with wooden horns (or other races) to replay the horde regions.

    <Anduin> Zer'Kiki is a very rare name for a gnome, dont you agree?
    <Zer'Kiki, troll in a gnome costume> Naaah, we from gnomergan south all have those names, mon.
    Last edited by duselsteiner; 2019-06-15 at 05:36 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Apexis View Post
    I don't think Blizzard really knows what to do with WoW, other than continue to make a never ending cash cow. Legion was the closest they have gotten in many years to providing a compelling and engaging story throughout the content being offered, then they pump out the latest garbage. The zones are amazing, the detail is engaging, breathtaking, and a constant Aw and WoW at every turn, the actual content within does not even come close to meeting the same level of standard.
    Well, except they broke it into farming simulator. I agree story in legion was really good but with uncapped titanforging, farming shit content for RNG legendaries completely destroyed experience for me. And in the end, there wasn't much meaningful content back then.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by RemasteredClassic View Post
    Current leveling speed should be dropped BUT, make mobs harder to kill, not only by giving them more HP, but making them fight with AI tech...I mean even a team of 2 people was able to put together a wow bot to play the game for you, why would blizz not be able to make mob fights be more interesting and harder.

    This would make the game take LONGER, but in a much more FUN and CHALLENGING way. Basically do not require more XP per level from players just to make it take longer, but make it more interesting and it would automatically take them longer. Win-Win.
    Fun for who? Because you say so? The leveling experience means literally nothing in games where the end game is the only thing relevant(that's why people hate the current leveling experience because it's slow to get to where it matters, not to mention you don't feel the excitement like you used to for each level up), there's no way to make leveling relevant because at max level you will always have the "power creep" with raids and dungeons providing strong gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by scarecrowz View Post
    Trust me.

    Zyky is better than you.

  20. #20
    There are far more ways to avoid doing any and all content that you can see...

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