25 officers injured in Memphis after marshals kill fugitive

[Polyxo]

Some more info which might lead to problems.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/mem...ing/index.html

And those communities aren't going to believe a word the cops say in those areas.

[Kraenen]

When accountability is low, anything can set off the powder keg. Outsiders see this as the reaction to a singular incident where maybe the suspect might even played a part in the shooting. The protesters have cumulative contention with the LEOs in the area, this is just the catalyst for the times they were silent and hoped the justice system came through.

Its always the relatively small things they send a group over the edge. Unfortunately the people hurt weren't even involved. It was a federal agency, not local PD. The irony.

That's just the thing - the grievances they have are generalized against anyone remotely similar. It's to the point they're just looking for an excuse to be violent or bigoted.

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And those communities aren't going to believe a word the cops say in those areas.

Why would the cops trust the "community" when they get attacked when someone else is doing their job?

[Logwyn]

so how do you get a grown man looking for a fight to do anything? using a car as a weapon is obviously not the line for you

you know, unless it affecting you then you'd sing a different tune but it's easy to not draw that line at all when you're completely removed from the situation

i'd blow your fucking head off if you tried to run me over with your car, i draw the line right where you decide that you want to hurt me and that's totally fair

The statement was "don't break the law". If someone is going 10 miles over the speed limit the penalty should be a death sentence? No.
That was my point the simple "breaking of law" doesn't mean a death sentence.

I see though that with the last sentence you are either really young, drunk/high, and/or not really capable of rational discussions. Maybe you are just having a bad day. You need to see that anger and aggression checked into. Might be worth it one day.

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Criminals resent those that enforce the law. That isn't something new

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Sure I agree but ramming cops with a car when they come to arrest you over your felony warrants should be.

The cops get to defend themselves of course!

[swisscheese]

that's not a goddamn working class neighborhood. that's a gang-infested ghetto. it's one of the shittiest areas in memphis and just a few miles from St. Jude Childrens' Hospital and they'll literally tell you NOT TO TRAVEL NORTH IF YOU LEAVE THE HOSPITAL

the hospital is fenced in and in a rough area itself

this is just more proof that poor black culture has a goddamn problem that affirmative action and other forms of racism against whites WILL NOT FIX

no way in hell you can fix the problem if you're too chickenshit to admit it's a problem. some fucking support for the people who don't wanna grow up in a gang, without a GED or diploma and no future would go a long way

give people a way to better themselves. leave the hoodrats in their own little areas and let them do whatever they want to each other and the problem will eventually sort itself out. stop with the aid, welfare, etc for the folks who don't fucking want to better themselves

but you gotta get the folks who do out of that shitty situation to stand a chance. i'd happily pay more taxes every just for this cause.

Was gonna say....don't know many working class neighborhoods that would have a bunch of guys walking around throwing gang signs....Hell, Dude in that first picture is repping crips while jumping with them 'lil polio legs

[Dreknar20]

Just breaking the law shouldn't be a death sentence everytime.

"just" breaking the law

The fuck? Attacking/resisting law enforcement is dramatically going to increase the chance of a suspect being harmed

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Nothing I said was aimed at criminals I pointed out why the average person could/would see the police as an adversarial force.

snitches get stiches

Not exactly the mindset for normal law abiding citizens

[arandomuser]

russians instigating violence again, the mueller report showed that alot of the blm protests that went bad were actually egged on by russians posing as activist. We need to find these russian actors and exterminate them, the goal is to make people support fascism

[Ghostpanther]

What you need to understand is that the police don't get any benefit of doubt anymore. The general population in these areas automatically assume the worst behavior in every single case involving the police, no matter what, unless it's proven otherwise. And somewhat justifiably so. St Louis PD, Memphis PD, Miami, Chicago have all acted as criminal enterprises for over a century.

I do understand the police are guilty by those who do not understand statistics. The police who have acted criminally in carrying out their duties, are only a very small minority of the force.

[PACOX]

That's just the thing - the grievances they have are generalized against anyone remotely similar. It's to the point they're just looking for an excuse to be violent or bigoted.

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Why would the cops trust the "community" when they get attacked when someone else is doing their job?

Phrases like 'excuse to be violent or bigoted' only apply of there aren't legit grievences.

The institution is rotten if it harbors bad LEOs. It's the institution that those people were demonstrating against.

Good cop or bad cop, the 25 that were hurt are part of that institution that lost the faith of the people it's supposed to protect through its own misconduct. The 25 people hurt how the sins of the institution can come back to bite any one in the ass so they better start getting rid of the bad LEOs and holding them accountable.

Why would the cops trust the "community" when they get attacked when someone else is doing their job?

And why should the community trust the cops if the cops are dirty?

When you have an impasse between two parties, the faults generally lie with the one with the most power.

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Was gonna say....don't know many working class neighborhoods that would have a bunch of guys walking around throwing gang signs....Hell, Dude in that first picture is repping crips while jumping with them 'lil polio legs

Some of the whitest dudes I know where the ones throwing up gang signs they actually any kind of street cred.

[Thage]

I've got several takeaways here, do with them what you will.

1) The adversarial relationship between low-income, primarily-black neighborhoods and law enforcement is deep, old, and complicated. It's very much a 'we didn't start the fire / but the world keeps turning and the flames keep burning,' chicken-and-egg situation at this point. A lot of these protests and riots being instigated by the extrajudicial killing of a suspect, warranted or not, are more or less the straw breaking the camel's back in most of these situations and there's a lot of collateral damage because of it. I find it hard to blame either side, because the arms race and powder keg has been fed by both the gangs (which, for better or worse, initially formed to provide community protection the cops wouldn't, but quickly fell prey to amassing power and using that power to carve out fiefdoms in poor neighborhoods) and the cops (whose ongoing arms race with gangs has led to strained if not broken relations with aforementioned low-income neighborhoods). Figuring into this is...

2) There are, in fact, bad cops that make life unnecessarily difficult and dangerous for the honest cops who are trying to keep people safe and are generally stand-up guys who will overlook minor offenses if you aren't an asshole. The St. Louis area (like Chicago and a few others) is infamous for its corrupt police force, despite multiple attempts by the St. Louis cops at community outreach and to improve their public image. In this case, it's unfortunate that they're taking the backlash for actions carried out (again, justified or not isn't the point here) by federal officers. The old adage is, 'one bad apple spoils the bunch,' and the long-standing tendency for police and DAs to cover one another only hurts in situations like this where long-standing antagonism is exacerbated relentlessly.

3) If things are bad enough that people are rioting, that usually means things have been simmering for far longer than whatever event set off the riot. And the riots don't look like some drunks setting a car on fire and turning over a van or two because Liverpool won, they look like a fucking warzone. Believe it or not, most people, even in low-income areas rife with gang activity, aren't just looking for any good excuse to set the joint on fire--after all, they live there and the money to repair whatever's burned down, shot up, or torn to hell and back usually isn't there. To quote MLK, slightly paraphrased, 'a riot is the language of the unheard.' (Side note, that whole speech can be found here and it's a fascinating read)

[Rhaide]

If he was ramming police cars then genuinely did have a weapon, I can understand why they shot him. Although considering a lot of the "he had a weapon" claims that turn out to be bullshit I can see why people are skeptical. No excuse for rioting or violence though. If it turns out he did have a weapon and was smashing police cars, then I can understand the police being threatened. Although shooting a suspect should always be last resort imo.

If it does turn out he was unarmed though, there should be criminal charges against the police. It seems that shooting someone is taken too lightly by a lot of officers. Taking someones life should always be a difficult thing you don't want to do but sometimes might have to. Where as too often, it seems like it's done just because it's the easier option. Look at the police in the UK, they have to call in armed police if they need them and often face people with weapons unarmed and manage to diffuse/handle the situation.

As for the rioting and violence, I don't understand that. Either the police are racist and you're just giving them excuses to be violent back or they aren't and you're being violent towards people just trying to do their jobs. I especially don't understand when these riots turn into destroying local property, that just seems stupid. Destroying your own neighbourhood to spite the police, that's logical...

Intentional attacks with a vehicle is considered assault with a deadly weapon in the US. Even if he didn't have a gun (sounds like he did, too risky to lie about something like that in Memphis), he still had a deadly weapon with his car and how he was using it.

[Kraenen]

Phrases like 'excuse to be violent or bigoted' only apply of there aren't legit grievences.

The institution is rotten if it harbors bad LEOs. It's the institution that those people were demonstrating against.

The institution isn't a person, you can't hold it morally responsible. Like I said, they just needed a target to unleash anger. They all look the same, so why not.

Good cop or bad cop, the 25 that were hurt are part of that institution that lost the faith of the people it's supposed to protect through its own misconduct. The 25 people hurt how the sins of the institution can come back to bite any one in the ass so they better start getting rid of the bad LEOs and holding them accountable.

And why should the community trust the cops if the cops are dirty?

When you have an impasse between two parties, the faults generally lie with the one with the most power.

The cops aren't "dirty" - interesting you use the same phrasing as racist anti-semites would, implying they are "unclean". Again, why should the cops trust the community that is bigoted towards them? The faults lie in the individuals causing harm. That's what a fault is.

Some of the whitest dudes I know where the ones throwing up gang signs they actually any kind of street cred.

What do you mean "whitest"?

[Rhaide]

The people the police interact with on a daily basis in what ever area they are in.

There is no such thing as a unified black community.

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Yes the police are in fact meant to fight crime but unless you think every one in a community has a secret criminal there harbouring in there basement the police shouldn’t be on bad terms with them.

A mob gathering to battle with police who shot a criminal attacking them with a deadly weapon is a fairly good indicator that the community in that area is garbage.

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Bodycam footage or we won't really know what happened.

I feel no pity for cops getting hurt during riots.

We can only hope something like this affects you personally then so you can actually understand.

[Deus Mortis]

Another update.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/mem...ing/index.html

US marshals were serving a warrant related to a June 3 shooting
US marshals were serving a warrant for Brandon Webber related to a June 3 shooting in Hernando, Mississippi, according to District Attorney John Champion.

Webber had been in Hernando on June 3 to answer to an ad on Facebook regarding the purchase of a vehicle, Champion said at a news conference today. Webber and the seller got in the car for a test drive.

As they were outside switching seats, Champion said Webber shot the victim five times and stole the vehicle.

The victim survived and was able to identify Webber from a photo lineup, the district attorney said. The victim is still hospitalized.

Champion said Webber used a “bogus” Facebook account and phone number when setting up the transaction.

Authorities reached out to US marshals on June 8 and asked them to arrest Webber on warrants for aggravated assault, armed robbery and conspiracy to commit armed robbery.

Webber was driving a red Infinity yesterday — the same vehicle stolen in Hernando, authorities said.

Authorities in Hernando said they are looking for a second suspect connected to the robbery and believe that person is also in Memphis. They said the suspect drove Webber to Hernando, but was not in the car for the test drive.

If true the dude was a scumbag.

[Rhaide]

Was gonna say....don't know many working class neighborhoods that would have a bunch of guys walking around throwing gang signs....Hell, Dude in that first picture is repping crips while jumping with them 'lil polio legs

Every lower class neighborhood has problem elements, but this area sounds like it has more than 'elements'.

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I've got several takeaways here, do with them what you will.

1) The adversarial relationship between low-income, primarily-black neighborhoods and law enforcement is deep, old, and complicated. It's very much a 'we didn't start the fire / but the world keeps turning and the flames keep burning,' chicken-and-egg situation at this point. A lot of these protests and riots being instigated by the extrajudicial killing of a suspect, warranted or not, are more or less the straw breaking the camel's back in most of these situations and there's a lot of collateral damage because of it. I find it hard to blame either side, because the arms race and powder keg has been fed by both the gangs (which, for better or worse, initially formed to provide community protection the cops wouldn't, but quickly fell prey to amassing power and using that power to carve out fiefdoms in poor neighborhoods) and the cops (whose ongoing arms race with gangs has led to strained if not broken relations with aforementioned low-income neighborhoods). Figuring into this is...

2) There are, in fact, bad cops that make life unnecessarily difficult and dangerous for the honest cops who are trying to keep people safe and are generally stand-up guys who will overlook minor offenses if you aren't an asshole. The St. Louis area (like Chicago and a few others) is infamous for its corrupt police force, despite multiple attempts by the St. Louis cops at community outreach and to improve their public image. In this case, it's unfortunate that they're taking the backlash for actions carried out (again, justified or not isn't the point here) by federal officers. The old adage is, 'one bad apple spoils the bunch,' and the long-standing tendency for police and DAs to cover one another only hurts in situations like this where long-standing antagonism is exacerbated relentlessly.

3) If things are bad enough that people are rioting, that usually means things have been simmering for far longer than whatever event set off the riot. And the riots don't look like some drunks setting a car on fire and turning over a van or two because Liverpool won, they look like a fucking warzone. Believe it or not, most people, even in low-income areas rife with gang activity, aren't just looking for any good excuse to set the joint on fire--after all, they live there and the money to repair whatever's burned down, shot up, or torn to hell and back usually isn't there. To quote MLK, slightly paraphrased, 'a riot is the language of the unheard.' (Side note, that whole speech can be found here and it's a fascinating read)

Question for you. How many cops in these areas do you think are willing to give folks a chance? I'd say quite a few, even if there are more than the usual number of bad apples. On the flip side, how many community members are willing to give cops a chance? I'd say a lot less. I haven't heard any stories of bad neighborhoods standing up for police.

[Ghostpanther]

Another update.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/mem...ing/index.html



If true the dude was a scumbag.

And if true, saved the public from a vicious threat.

[Sykol]

Honestly, I think you just shouldn't be allowed to hold black people accountable for any type of crime. It's unfair and racist.

[Rhaide]

Phrases like 'excuse to be violent or bigoted' only apply of there aren't legit grievences.
Good cop or bad cop, the 25 that were hurt are part of that institution that lost the faith of the people it's supposed to protect through its own misconduct. The 25 people hurt how the sins of the institution can come back to bite any one in the ass so they better start getting rid of the bad LEOs and holding them accountable.

I hear this argument a lot. There are absolutely power-hungry, sociopathic assholes in the police - but the VAST majority of them are not. This being the case, when something shitty happens, the police get the benefit of the doubt because it's more likely that they are telling the truth than it is that a suspect is.

Plenty of cases where bad cops get punished. Not enough I agree, but people like to pretend that all cops are bad because they are 'protecting' bad cops; they AREN'T. They just have to make a REALLY good case before anything can be done and that's tough.

[ipaq]

I cannot comment on the incident per se...

But rioting only destroying your own community.

Lots of white nationalists are happy they're rioting right now.

Want to enraged those racists? Act civilized.

If he was ramming police cars then genuinely did have a weapon, I can understand why they shot him. Although considering a lot of the "he had a weapon" claims that turn out to be bullshit I can see why people are skeptical. No excuse for rioting or violence though. If it turns out he did have a weapon and was smashing police cars, then I can understand the police being threatened. Although shooting a suspect should always be last resort imo.

If it does turn out he was unarmed though, there should be criminal charges against the police. It seems that shooting someone is taken too lightly by a lot of officers. Taking someones life should always be a difficult thing you don't want to do but sometimes might have to. Where as too often, it seems like it's done just because it's the easier option. Look at the police in the UK, they have to call in armed police if they need them and often face people with weapons unarmed and manage to diffuse/handle the situation.

As for the rioting and violence, I don't understand that. Either the police are racist and you're just giving them excuses to be violent back or they aren't and you're being violent towards people just trying to do their jobs. I especially don't understand when these riots turn into destroying local property, that just seems stupid. Destroying your own neighbourhood to spite the police, that's logical...

[Polyxo]

I do understand the police are guilty by those who do not understand statistics. The police who have acted criminally in carrying out their duties, are only a very small minority of the force.

Nope, they're not. There's a strong enough justification to prosecute every single member of those departments under RICO statutes.

[Kiri]

I cannot comment on the incident per se...

But rioting only destroying your own community.

Lots of white nationalists are happy they're rioting right now.

Want to enraged those racists? Act civilized.

Violence is, to many, a last resort chosen when acting civilized gets you nowhere. I mean it is always easy to just assume that the people who riot just exploded on the first thing that ticked them off, but it is certainly possible that said community has reacted civil to racism - real or perceived, know too little of the case to tell - to no avail. Being civilized usually does not enrage racists, but rather makes them feel more powerful, since an enemy that does not fight back is perceived as weak.