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  1. #41
    Level 1 toon, rest of toons should be lvl 110 when created.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Edgy? Not sure how it is edgy? Leveling is fast, it just goes to shit when you have to bounce through all the older expansions. They helped a bit grouping them up for scaling ranges. But really1-current expansion starting level should be scalable to player level, or the very least, 1-60 in vanilla and the rest. I get that people are intimated by big scary numbers like anything over 100. I do. But that is really a superficial concern. I just started my Zandalari last Friday night, and yes he started at 20, but without heirloom gear I was at 80 before Sunday. I just hit 120 this morning. And yes, while I know fast ways to level and all the other shit 15 years of experience has given me, any new player can be max level after 2 weeks easily.

    Don't see how my mob strength opinion is edgy either. Unless you are doing something stupid, like pulling way too much, being undergeared, or not being prepared, it is hard to get overwhelmed. New players should not have to feel like they can only take 1 or 2 mobs at a time max. Not to mention if they are not in the best or even good gear when they get to 110, the new zones will eat them alive if they try to level like they did prior to. But by then they should be experienced enough to know shit.
    Im sorry if i was disrespectful, but i read a recent interview and even Blizzard internally says the experience to new players could be better.

    "I think [the levelling experience] is a pretty hotly debated topic internally, about how to handle that," he said. "I think we recognize that we're not giving new players as good an experience as we can, and we do want to focus on how to make that experience better. There's 15 years of content that people should have the option to do if they want to, but we also want the ability for players to play with their friends quickly. That's why we developed things like the boost [which automatically raises one character to an appropriate level for the current expansion], which you get if you purchase the game itself. The scaling tech was also a way to help us do that, and you can sort of choose your own path through expansions and story content.

    "We've been addressing the problem over time. We're trying to find out what works and what our players enjoy, especially our new players, and learn from that until we get it right."
    "There is a lot of story to tell, and if you come in as a new player and want to do it all it can feel overwhelming and slightly disorienting. That is something we want to address, but the question is, what is the best and healthiest way to do that? I don't think today we have an expectation that every player should go through all the story. But I do think it's something we want to continue to look at and get better at in terms of making the levelling experience enjoyable and story-rich, while also allowing past stories to be told. We don't have an answer for that today, but that's something we'd like to look at."
    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...t-a-limitation

  3. #43
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Leveling needs to feel like it has weight and value on its own.

    Not what it is now, where it's a boring, outdated chore where everyone just says "the real game starts at 120."
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  4. #44
    The concept of spending 20+ hours of leveling up before you can get to the fun stuff of raiding needs to go away entirely. The journey was apart of the core of the Vanilla experience. The leveling journey has not been a part of the core of WoW's experience for well over a decade, and only serves as a barrier to entry, both for new players who want to check the game and for current players who want to play a different class.

    Remove levels entirely. Allow anyone to create a character, be inducted into a short fifteen minute tutorial that walks them through playing their class, how to perform their role within a raid, and explain basic raid symbology (being able to distinguish damaging AoEs you should step out of from healing AoEs you should step in, etc). After that, the player is ready to queue for raids.

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  5. #45
    • Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
    • Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
    • Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
    • Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
    • Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
    Solo. Why? Does end game promote a solo or group experience?
    Fuck no, fuck scaling, fuck the faggot that thought of it.
    2-3 mobs = die? No? Did I click a classic subforum topic?
    Nah, new players can go play classic for that.
    This question is the same as the first question.


    With classic coming any "change this to how it used to be in vanilla" queries will result in being directed directly towards classic
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
    Solo - with dungeons being the obvious tie-in grouping point. The content itself should not be the reason why people form communities and groups. Instead Blizzard should promote/develope their "communities" features. Let the story/content be what it is, let everyone see it/choose their level of participation, but make guilds/communities the focal point of socializing, add features that encourage people to find other people with similar playstyles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
    Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
    These are the same question to me - if zones scale to your level, there's inevitably a point where too many mobs will get you killed. It shouldn't be the case of "1 mob and then you need to drink for 30 seconds) but there should be some "danger" in the world. This requires a lot of thought and clever design from Blizzard though - lately they've been building zones with "blocked paths" - you need to take the path the developers meant you to take, and that requires you to grind through 50 packs of mobs, every time you go that way. That's not fun or challenging - that's just god damn tedious. They need to keep the "exploration" feeling to zones - in the last expacs they've been too much on the rails. Zones and mobs in the world should be dangerous enough for you to pay attention to what you're doing. But it can't be a tedious grind through a wall of mobs that will respawn while you're killing them. Repop timers need to change as well, they're currently on speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
    No. Content shouldn't be the factor that "forces" you to group with randoms. That just promotes wrong type of communities (the excluding types we have now).
    Building communities and groups should be a separate feature set, which is developed on its own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
    No. CRZ should be removed and servers should be consolidated instead. Transfers should be free of charge.

    Additionally:
    I think they should just delete all current quests in the "legacy content" and craft a new coherent story through it all. The new player experience right now is incredibly inconsistent and the story is just "kill x, bring me y" as fast as possible. In many places the phasing is confusing, with storyline NPCs appearing when they should be dead etc.

    I know they did something like this in Cata and it was largely hated, but if they're doing a level squish then it might also be a good time to think about the ´"Story of World of Warcraft" - currently it's very much like a Christmas tree. Each branch has wildly different decorations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Leveling needs to feel like it has weight and value on its own.

    Not what it is now, where it's a boring, outdated chore where everyone just says "the real game starts at 120."
    Also this is very much spot on.
    Last edited by Greyscale; 2019-06-15 at 06:08 AM.

  7. #47
    Hard giving more experience per kill.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Im sorry if i was disrespectful, but i read a recent interview and even Blizzard internally says the experience to new players could be better.





    https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...t-a-limitation
    No, you weren't disrespectful, and I have read what Blizzard thinks. I just think it is fine outside of what allowing it all to scale or keep vanilla 1-60 and all expansions 60-whatever so players have more choice. Right now after 58-60 you have to do TBC and WotLK or at least some of each, Cata and MoP or some of each, WoD, then Legion. If it all scaled, you could almost get to 110 all in vanilla content if not all of it bypassing all the expansion content if one chooses. Or, one could go straight to all expansion content if they wanted. Or the alternative, go through vanilla content, then pick where they want to go instead of following the chain of events.

    Yes there is a lot of story to consume, and because they do not have the resources realistically to bring all the stories in line with current events most are sort of trapped in the past and make no sense. I can see how this can be overwhelming. IMO the simple fix is to allow scaling for all the zones up to current expansion to be lets say 10-whatever. At least get out of the starter zone and and some experience playing.

    Don't think it's edgy, just common sense.

  9. #49
    Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
    Leveling should promote a group experience, but not make solo leveling inefficient. Group quests are a great way to do this. Little standalone quests for experience while soloing, with large chains ending in a difficult miniboss.
    I don't normally praise classic as I honestly don't think it has aged well at all, but it basically nailed it in that regard. Other than the number of the quests and how spread out many of the objectives are, the quests themselves were structured in a great way. You could leave town with 5-10 quests in your log but occasionally they'd chain into additional quests that went a bit deeper and usually got more difficult to solo by the end, some even entering dungeons or fighting against elites.

    Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
    Not exactly. I like the idea of certain zones being too high level for you, but I'd like zones you're equal level to to scale upwards if you want to stay there and finish the quests. Mobs should stop scaling once you reach the top of that zone's level range, and stay there. So for example if you enter redridge at 15, you may find level 20 mobs in a higher level area, but by the time you're 20 everything is also level 20.

    Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
    This is tricky. This wasn't actually the way classic was designed honestly, and you can see proof of this in more recent streams of classic beta, but there was this idea of resource management in the form of time, health and mana that isn't really an aspect anymore and I feel like it's somewhat to the detriment of the rest of the game.
    I think 3 is a good number for when you should feel a little challenged. Maybe not die, but classes shouldn't be able to easily mow down 3+ enemies with little to no effort until they're sufficiently geared.

    Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
    Hell no. I hate this with a passion. It's annoying.
    While we're at it, remove tagging for opposite factions as well, and let players of the opposite faction party out in the world if they're not flagged and maybe requiring battletag friends, and let them do neutral quests together. I never want to totally remove factions but I feel like the hard line isn't really doing the game any favors.

    Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
    No. I don't really think it's worth the disjointed hassle it created, and I feel like having your own server should have some benefits as well.
    All this crap with CRZ and sharding just makes the game feel even more unsocial. I don't see the same people when I'm out questing anymore, and shifting shards or zones every time you cross a zone border feels terrible.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    No. I don't really think it's worth the disjointed hassle it created, and I feel like having your own server should have some benefits as well.
    All this crap with CRZ and sharding just makes the game feel even more unsocial. I don't see the same people when I'm out questing anymore, and shifting shards or zones every time you cross a zone border feels terrible.
    You do realize CRZ is the one and only chance you have at seeing other people in low level zones?
    If it wasnt for CRZ you would see zero people in the world.

    CRZ is our only chance....

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post

    1. Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
    2. Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
    3. Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
    4. Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
    5. Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

    1. Solo, with promoting group play / pick up play. Introducing World Quests that dynamically scale with others, yet are mostly soloable (Or challenging to solo, with a bit of ease with others).
    2. Every zone should scale to the player and let them over-gear the content with higher ilvl to an extent. Not to the point of faceroll, but enough so that you can go - "Yeah, this is easier now that I'm WAY stronger!"
    3. Honestly the mob system is archaic and they should just copy the modern formula to how they work. Everything we essentially fight is minions / trash tier enemies, just slightly stronger. We need more than just basic fodder, we need grunts, elites, and captains essentially. Think Destiny and Guild Wars 2, there always should be fodder and slightly stronger fodder but it's more dynamic when you can fight tougher enemies with more than just your basic rotation.
    4. Restricted tagging only makes sense for PVP enabled content, otherwise it should go to the wayside.
    5. The point of CRZ should be to make content feel super full of life, but it seems Blizzard would rather have stable temperatures on their servers rather than have a lot of people running about. That and, a lot of people aren't running around so that contributes to less people being seen. That said - if they could make it so more servers could connect to one another and have a bunch of people running about, that'd be better.
    "Your name was stolen? I see... Well, I guess that happens from time to time..."


  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    You do realize CRZ is the one and only chance you have at seeing other people in low level zones?
    If it wasnt for CRZ you would see zero people in the world.

    CRZ is our only chance....
    Honestly, I'll say the same thing I posted when Blizzard made this same argument: I don't really care at all about seeing people in questing zones.

    The game doesn't and has never made it worthwhile to see or group up with people in the world, right now questing is such a strictly solo experience that it really doesn't serve a purpose.
    If there were reasons to want to see people in the world then yeah, I'd agree it's a problem. But unless they changed that it's a really sloppy solution to a non-issue that's done the game more harm than good. We already have a solution to this in the merged realms a few years back, but they stopped bothering with those.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    Honestly, I'll say the same thing I posted when Blizzard made this same argument: I don't really care at all about seeing people in questing zones.

    The game doesn't and has never made it worthwhile to see or group up with people in the world, right now questing is such a strictly solo experience that it really doesn't serve a purpose.
    If there were reasons to want to see people in the world then yeah, I'd agree it's a problem. But unless they changed that it's a really sloppy solution to a non-issue that's done the game more harm than good. We already have a solution to this in the merged realms a few years back, but they stopped bothering with those.
    You are not of the opinion that "community driven leveling" is magical?
    I played the stress test and it was magical dude.
    Asking in general chat for help on a elite quest.
    Grouping every...single...time...someone started killing your mobs.
    Grouping everytime it was chaos and 50 people fighting for the same mobs.

    It was magical...and IMO there is no better leveling experience as a community driven one.

    The oldschool mechanics are outdated...but some kind of NEW mechanics could be in place to promote community leveling.
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2019-06-16 at 12:47 PM.

  14. #54
    an engaging story overarching story line would be great for new players. the game is easy enough to learn, yes make some things require a group, even bring back the need to communicate a little. but i think a good story (swtor style) where players can make a few choices that actually effect their characters would be cool to me if i were new.
    No sense crying over spilt beer, unless you're drunk...

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

    A couple questions if you would like to answer.
    If not, create your own perfect leveling experience to New Players.

    • Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
    • Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
    • Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
    • Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
    • Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
    its 15 year old game.

    its has no new players.

    lets be realistic here

  16. #56
    Nothing is gonna fix leveling experience when all quests feel the same. It is so boring that I mostly use automatic quests addons to accept/turn in quests.

    Reading quest story in 2019...
    No animations whatsoever
    No voice acting.
    Boring quest types (Kill X mobs, Kill Mobs and collect Z from them etc...)

    Now imagine a NEW player trying out WoW after lets say playing Witcher 3... and he has to do a tons boring and tedious of quests till he get to 120. With no hierlooms.
    If I didn't have friends playing back then I would have quit after level 30.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    its 15 year old game.

    its has no new players.

    lets be realistic here
    you are absolutely insane if you believe that. Maybe you are not saying literally no new players but wow is the best mmo on the entire market...and a new 12 year old kid "is born" everyday.

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer City Pop's Avatar
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    1. It should be a mix of both. Something like 75% solo, 25% group.
    2. No. I think it's a good feeling to have mobs way higher level than you, and zones that you know you wouldn't stand a chance in yet.
    3. Pulling multiple mobs or one elite mob should have some sort of challenge to it, yes. Feeling like a god among men, pulling whole towns at once as we can in BFA is incredibly boring.
    4. No, I think faction wide tags are fine.
    5. CRZ should not exist in any form.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by City Pop View Post
    5. CRZ should not exist in any form.
    I hate when people say that

    I know there is value in having server communities.

    BUT if you want any hope whatsoever to populate low level zones with players...CRZ is the only answer.
    It just so happens CRZ is not doing its job of populating low level zones today...

  20. #60
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    The concept of spending 20+ hours of leveling up before you can get to the fun stuff of raiding needs to go away entirely. The journey was apart of the core of the Vanilla experience. The leveling journey has not been a part of the core of WoW's experience for well over a decade, and only serves as a barrier to entry, both for new players who want to check the game and for current players who want to play a different class.

    Remove levels entirely. Allow anyone to create a character, be inducted into a short fifteen minute tutorial that walks them through playing their class, how to perform their role within a raid, and explain basic raid symbology (being able to distinguish damaging AoEs you should step out of from healing AoEs you should step in, etc). After that, the player is ready to queue for raids.
    So a system like GW2 is the perfect world? Where when you buy the expansions for the game, you get a max character with full raid gear, which can pretty much do any content they want?
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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