How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

[Raelbo]

Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)

Really depends on the player. For that reason the game should make it possible and easy to group up without making it feel obligatory. Try to bear in mind that a new player today may feel extremely intimidated by the idea of being a newbie among people who have been playing this game for 15 years. It think it's important for new players to be made aware of the existence of other players, but to let them interact on their own terms once they feel comfortable doing so.

Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)

I think the idea of all zones scaling up is a good one. I don't think that allowing all zones to scale down is a good idea for new players though because it would likely just be too overwhelming. Besides, the reasons you might want this feature as an experienced player aren't really applicable to new players.

Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)

How about both yes and no?

The whole debate about what level of difficulty levelling should be is extremely polarising. And it is that way because there is no right or wrong answer, because people are different.

My idea would be to use different zones to achieve different levels of difficulty in the game and then let the players decide which zones to choose based on their own preference. The fact is that there are way more zones available in the game to level up in than are necessary, even more so once you add zone scaling. So having a concept like easy, medium and hard zones (or normal, heroic, mythic if you prefer) should IMO be totally feasible.

Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)

Multi-tagging was a brilliant QoL addition to the game. Having to compete with other people to get a tag on a mob discourages co-operation and fosters antagonism. You're not supposed to resent members of your own faction because they stole your tags.

Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

I think CRZ is a good concept especially for levelling zones which tend to not be well populated. The zones don't need to be crowded, but they shouldn't feel like graveyards either.

[GreenJesus]

People seem to believe that making things smooth and easy will keep players hooked. To some extent that is true, but if you don't pose some danger then the experience falls into comatose boredom.

This is a long time ago now, but it's an example I've mentioned in a similar topic before;
I was leveling a warrior, and was pretty much just obliterating in my path as usual. My healthbar barely moves, I don't care about health potions, stat buffs or anything, because I am already way overpowered compared to everything around me. This is around the level 25 range iirc.

But as I was taking a "shortcut", I accidentally pulled two red-level mobs (I miss you, mob levels), and that made me wake up from this easiness-induced slumber. Suddenly I was in some sort of "danger", my health was falling pretty rapidly, I had to use a potion, a lucky crit may have been the reason I survived, as I was able to kill one pretty quickly so I could focus down the other. I just barely survived, and it was exhilirating, even if it was just a random lowbie experience.

The leveling process has become a necessary-evil, WoW is now so focused on maxlevel, play-the-patch mentality that the only reason leveling is still in the game is because it kinda has to be, but every design decision regarding leveling seems to be about making it faster, and easier. This just compounds the problem.
If mobs are too easy, you don't appreciate gear upgrades, or stat buffs, or other class' buffs.
If you level up too quickly, what you gain becomes obsolete so quickly.

In short:
Yes, mobs do need to become harder, because they are now complete pushovers.
Mob scaling has it's benefits, but ultimately the loss of mob levels ruins too much.
Mob scaling, coupled with too-easy mobs, creates a constant: You are always overpowered. That is not fun.

The leveling is so easy people can do the iron man challenge (no gear besides white, no talents, no consumables, and if young die you have to delete the character).

I'm glad they added the new tagging system. I remember fighting a mob on a mining node and then some bloke on his sparkle pony would fly in and steal it. I'd /rude them a half dozen times until I saw them steal the next node and repeat.

[Big Thanks]

@SirBeef

Your opinion is extremely edgy. Not even Blizzard agrees leveling is "fine" :C

[Schmilblick]

The real question is how many new players they have every year and if it's worth to bother reworking it.

[crono14]

- Solo but encourage grouping if needed for group quests
- Dangerous, I shouldn't obliterate everything in my path and it makes leveling boring
- Immersive - WoTLK did a good job weaving the overall arc of that story into leveling and dungeons
- Make gear matter - I hate wearing my old raid gear for 70% of the leveling experience and always have

Just some random things I can think of off top of my head

[Murthag]

. It should promote both, playing in group should reward more xp gain like heirlooms but the 2 sistem do not stack so one can choose if go solo or with a group

. I found the zone scaling good as it is now (maybe in later time we could merge wod with Legion on the same bracket).

. Not all the all the mobs but maybe the q target of a particular q/chain should require grouping, a sort of boss of that zone.

. Mob tagging is fine now.

. I see a good amount of people around but the more the better

[SirBeef]

@SirBeef

Your opinion is extremely edgy. Not even Blizzard agrees leveling is "fine" :C

Edgy? Not sure how it is edgy? Leveling is fast, it just goes to shit when you have to bounce through all the older expansions. They helped a bit grouping them up for scaling ranges. But really1-current expansion starting level should be scalable to player level, or the very least, 1-60 in vanilla and the rest. I get that people are intimated by big scary numbers like anything over 100. I do. But that is really a superficial concern. I just started my Zandalari last Friday night, and yes he started at 20, but without heirloom gear I was at 80 before Sunday. I just hit 120 this morning. And yes, while I know fast ways to level and all the other shit 15 years of experience has given me, any new player can be max level after 2 weeks easily.

Don't see how my mob strength opinion is edgy either. Unless you are doing something stupid, like pulling way too much, being undergeared, or not being prepared, it is hard to get overwhelmed. New players should not have to feel like they can only take 1 or 2 mobs at a time max. Not to mention if they are not in the best or even good gear when they get to 110, the new zones will eat them alive if they try to level like they did prior to. But by then they should be experienced enough to know shit.

[Octoberfest99]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

A couple questions if you would like to answer.
If not, create your own perfect leveling experience to New Players.

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

1. I prefer solo leveling, but I'm cool with group options being available.
2. No, level scaling breaks immersion and takes away the feeling of your character making progress. The bears in Elywinn Forest should not be as powerful as the demons in the Felwood.
3. Yes, mobs should hit hard. Perhaps a clever player could take on 2 or 3, but players shouldn't be able to pull 6 to 8 mobs and be in no danger.
4. No, everything should be multi-tap, even across faction. The factions aren't always at war and even in war its possible people would join forces against a tough enemy. Wrath and Legion are a couple of examples.
5. Yes, the zones don't need to feel crowded, but having other players around makes the game world feel more alive.

[MoanaLisa]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
  Mostly solo.
  
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
  Part of me wants to say yes but a more rational part of me thinks that a brand new player in 2019 should feel the power increasing as they level. Overall I would say some scaling is OK but at some point it's ok for players to have it easier.
  
• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
  Hard enough to make you pay attention. Killing boars in Westfall should not be a life-and-death struggle. I can't think of anything more likely to turn a new player off (other than grouping up with assholes) and make them leave the game other than having to do some relatively simple quest and dying a dozen times. That's ludicrous. If you pay attention, do most everything correctly, then you should be successful. Frustrating and high skill requirements for a new player is not fun and just dumb design.
  
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
  No.
  
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
  Sure. If you want to encourage any kind of ad hoc "Hey, need some help" grouping visible players are a must.

[Battlebeard]

Since the start of the game, I hated leveling and honestly don't see much purpose of it. To me, the game START when you hit max level, up to that point is just a boring rush that might as well be skipped. So the faster and easier the better, with as little groups needed as possible.

[Lei]

The leveling is so easy people can do the iron man challenge (no gear besides white, no talents, no consumables, and if young die you have to delete the character).

Pre or post scaling world? Average Joes do this? I followed Asmongold's and a few other ironman tries and they got to level 40-50ish. So are you sure about this statement?

[Spotnick]

Level experience should be... level 1 to 60 like everybody else, then every expansion zones at its down leveling path to unlock content there.

So if you are a new player, you can level 1 to 60 then go directly to Zandalari/Kul Tiras to unlock that, because maybe, just maybe, you don't really want to play Outland and Northrend.


Of course, the 1-60 should go back to the original pace for that.

It's a bit like professions did, every xpac has it's own level... so you're level 60, and level 10 in BFA.

[Luxeley]

Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
100% solo. Not being able to find a group of players can impede progress and anything that impedes progress while leveling is bad for the game at this point.

Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
I believe so. Then again, the story line may be compromised or incoherent with scaling. But still, the zones can be redesigned to be independent of themselves.

Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
Mobs should definitely hit harder than they currently do.

Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
No.

Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
Sure, why not.

[Schattenlied]

Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)

Group, but should absolutely be doable solo. A good amount of group quests that require you to either outlevel them and be a good player, or group up.

Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)

IMO, no, they shouldn't. I feel that the "I can't go there yet, I'm not strong enough" feeling is important in an RPG. Also everything scaling to the player makes the player feel like they aren't getting stronger as they level, and if you don't get any gear upgrades for a couple levels you'll actually feel like you get weaker, which is a horrible design

Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)

Absolutely.

you pull 2 mobs you'll strain your resources, you pull 3 you'll fucking die unless you're on top of your game, you pull 4 you should be fucked if you can't flee.

Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)

Don't really care about this one, I have no preference either way.

Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

CRZ shouldn't exist. At all.


In addition, bring back old talents at the very least, if not spell ranks as well. Those played an important role in making leveling feel, well, good... The player got rewarded with something every level (talents, spells, spell ranks), and that felt a lot better than now, where the player often goes 15 levels without getting fucking anything.

[Onikaroshi]

You missed the major question.... What new players?

With WoW revenue dropping like a rock there seems to be some sort of exodus of players (can't know how many without numbers, we just sure as shit know it's not rising) so why would a new player join a game that many are leaving?

They need to fix what is driving away CURRENT players before they can even think of fixing things to bring in new players.

[Grimbold21]

Vanilla was both, but that would require uplifting the world to a meaningful level, that is, dangerous to the player, because right now we're too powerful for anything to pose a danger.

Say areas within zones with elite mobs as we once used to have.

Tagging would require the removal of warmode.

This all depends if Blizzard is willing to risk a change of game philosophy in retail, from fast paced and over flowing and instant gratification to a slower journey, with less showering of rewards but significant ones.

[Vampyr78]

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)

Leveling should always promote SOLO experience but some more group quests would be nice. But quest structure in old content ain't gonna change so it will be as it was. Beacause let's be real when you want to be able to hop in and be able to do something without requiring help. With that being said with instanced GROUP content used for leveling it should promote group cooperation.

• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)

I think zones should have their level scaling brackets. Some people just want to be able to go in to the older zone and just smash through with ease.

• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)

I always say that life is too short to use single target abilities. Now at lower levels mobs should be easy but there should be a difficulty curve as you level up. Now the problem is when you set the highest mob difficulty at current max level then what do you do for next expansion? You can't just increase that difficulty indefinetly.

• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)

For quite a long time that oldschool tag system promoted selfish beheaviour. People would tag your mobs right before you hit them just to be assholes. People wouldn't help even if your struggled in a fight because they wouldn't get anything from that. Current taging promotes helping others fight mobs.

• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

It doesn't matter Cross Realm Sharding is here to stay whether you like it or not. CRZ is a thing of the past.

[Bodonius]

Level 1 toon, rest of toons should be lvl 110 when created.

[Big Thanks]

Edgy? Not sure how it is edgy? Leveling is fast, it just goes to shit when you have to bounce through all the older expansions. They helped a bit grouping them up for scaling ranges. But really1-current expansion starting level should be scalable to player level, or the very least, 1-60 in vanilla and the rest. I get that people are intimated by big scary numbers like anything over 100. I do. But that is really a superficial concern. I just started my Zandalari last Friday night, and yes he started at 20, but without heirloom gear I was at 80 before Sunday. I just hit 120 this morning. And yes, while I know fast ways to level and all the other shit 15 years of experience has given me, any new player can be max level after 2 weeks easily.

Don't see how my mob strength opinion is edgy either. Unless you are doing something stupid, like pulling way too much, being undergeared, or not being prepared, it is hard to get overwhelmed. New players should not have to feel like they can only take 1 or 2 mobs at a time max. Not to mention if they are not in the best or even good gear when they get to 110, the new zones will eat them alive if they try to level like they did prior to. But by then they should be experienced enough to know shit.

Im sorry if i was disrespectful, but i read a recent interview and even Blizzard internally says the experience to new players could be better.

"I think [the levelling experience] is a pretty hotly debated topic internally, about how to handle that," he said. "I think we recognize that we're not giving new players as good an experience as we can, and we do want to focus on how to make that experience better. There's 15 years of content that people should have the option to do if they want to, but we also want the ability for players to play with their friends quickly. That's why we developed things like the boost [which automatically raises one character to an appropriate level for the current expansion], which you get if you purchase the game itself. The scaling tech was also a way to help us do that, and you can sort of choose your own path through expansions and story content.

"We've been addressing the problem over time. We're trying to find out what works and what our players enjoy, especially our new players, and learn from that until we get it right."

"There is a lot of story to tell, and if you come in as a new player and want to do it all it can feel overwhelming and slightly disorienting. That is something we want to address, but the question is, what is the best and healthiest way to do that? I don't think today we have an expectation that every player should go through all the story. But I do think it's something we want to continue to look at and get better at in terms of making the levelling experience enjoyable and story-rich, while also allowing past stories to be told. We don't have an answer for that today, but that's something we'd like to look at."

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articl...t-a-limitation

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Leveling needs to feel like it has weight and value on its own.

Not what it is now, where it's a boring, outdated chore where everyone just says "the real game starts at 120."