How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

[Big Thanks]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

A couple questions if you would like to answer.
If not, create your own perfect leveling experience to New Players.

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

[micwini]

You should be able to choose which continent you want to start level in. For new players, they could implement the vanilla quests and then they can unlock each continent/world in the order in which they were released. This way the story makes a bit more sense.
they should indeed do the level squish, so each level feels more meaningful.
As for the things you mentioned: I think everything is fine like it is now, although I think that normal mobs should pose a bit more of a threat than they do now.

[Big Thanks]

3. This should be an option.

I was about to give you endless praide for this great idea.
Hard Mode leveling and Easy Mode leveling with Hard giving more experience per kill.

But it would divide the playerbase if such option existed

Unless it would be possible to MIX Hard Mode players and Easy Mode players...

[Lodpaul]

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? A balance of both, if you want to play solo you may aswel play a single player game however if you have to level with someone all the time that won't happen either, you shouldn't be forced to group and if you wanted to solo the leveling you could but there should be extra rewards and harder quests for grouping giving you an extra incentive to communicate with other people and make friends.
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? Not really sure how i feel about that, i suppose giving people the option to roam the world and level where they want is probably better than the old system.
• Should mobs hit hard? Yes, steam rolling anything isn't fun, it's boring.
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction No
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? Yes that would make the experience better.

[Super Kami Dende]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

Fun. It should be Fun.

[Big Thanks]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

Fun. It should be Fun.

OMG, why did you post this? You made me laugh IRL with this post though

What is fun? Grouping? Solo? Fast? Slow?

[Flurryfang]

First of all, i think if you want to design a good leveling experience, you first have to look at the mechanics already set in place.

I think it is hard to make something really good, without also changing some of the core ideas of the game. Like mobs hitting harder will make people not mass pull, but it will proberly make the solo experience worse. Alot of the world is also designed for quick combat and not long engagements, especially with classes that can heal, not really having mana problems anymore.

So with that out of the way, i think the answers can be answered:

1: It should be a SOLO experience, but group play should be encouraged. Give leveling bonuses for being in a group and being close together. Sure, people will just group up for the experience, but it will be an icebreaker for interactions.

2: Zones should stay as they are. The idea being pushed out of a zone because of your leveling speed, is one of the worst experiences with open world leveling.

3: Mobs can hit harder, but they don't have to. I would though love to see more boss mobs in the world, more abilities on mobs that deals a lot of damage, and maybe even create a mob-pummel ability to all mobs. So if you ever pull more than 3 adds, they will start to debuff you with dmg taken, or maybe increase their own dps. Any harder mobs should ofcourse be followed by increase in EXP.

4: I don't think the old tag system promoted much grouping other than supress solo players and classis without instant range attacks. There is nothing wrong with everybody being able to tag in on a mob.

5: I think all zones outside of the heavy PVP zones and end-game zones should be stacked with players. The more the better really, even to a point where they are swarmed.....Just for fun.


Aside from that, i would add some small "fun" features to the leveling zones.

- Zone Finish bonus: Finish a zone of quests/loremaster, get a big EXP reward and a movement speed buff for 10 min(for movement between zones.) Will help players stay in zones and see stories to the end. Also gives a nice boost in speed.
- An overall of Heirlooms: Heirlooms should not be gear, but merely a bonus for those slots in EXP gain and stats. So you still switch out gear, it just gets a bit more powerful and grants exp+ when you have aquired "Leather Shoulder Heirloom".
- Action Events: Just like Legion Invasions and BFA Incursions, all the old zones should also have special events going on. Grants conduits for players and allows some of the stories in the old zones to be a bit more active. Maybe even make it a questline, that pop ups and grants good EXP and some fun buffs/items.

A final thing, which is also the biggest thing, would be a return to the old talent system. Getting a level in current WoW is very anti-climatic, especially compared to all other MMOs like GW2, FF and especially old Wildstar. I think that talents, while not being a fix or something that beats other games, is a good step in the right direction and would simbolize the jouney of getting stronger.

[Blackmist]

1. Solo, probably. At least for the most part. You're unlikely to stumble across other players at the same stages of the quest as you. The problem is there's no reason to just group with somebody and help them. It doesn't benefit you at all. If anything it's probably going to slow you down. That's why WQs are quite nice, because if there's other people in that area, they're at least doing the same thing you are.

2. Yes. Up to previous expansion cap should be doable anywhere. The only limit should be current expansion zones for current expansion cap.

3. No. There's no value in frustrating players like that.

4. No. That just makes other players a fucking nuisance. You shouldn't have to arse about forming groups to help people.

5. Yes, as much as possible. It's an MMO.

The problem with WoW is simply that it starts at the level cap. Everything up to that is a grind. The fact that you can skip it for money is enough to tell me that it should be removed altogether. The old zones and stories should stay, but there's no need to force players to do it. It's a several month long tutorial, that doesn't really teach you anything anyway.

[horbindr]

my current advise for new players is to do a few class trials and then use their 110 boost.

all those questions you asks don't really matter compared to the poor quality of questing content from 1-90. (and especially 60-80). asking them to do the bad content first when there is plenty of higher quality quest content readily available is stupid.

[Big Thanks]

Omg @Flurryfang thanks for your post

Your 1) idea is so good, it makes my "opinion" of bringing back the old tag system pointless.
Its innovative and a lot of great ideas

[Nevcairiel]

What is fun? Grouping? Solo? Fast? Slow?

How about all of the above.

Leveling should be fun no matter if you do it alone or in a group. Especially if you are starting out, you don't immediately have a group, so solo should be perfectly fine. Many people also prefer to quietly level their alts solo, as a contrast to group activites at max level, "relaxing" if you will. At the same time, leveling should properly handle grouping up, so no bottlenecks from collecting stuff with more then one person, and stuff liket hat.

Speed - that is a tricky topic to address. I would argue that the speed ultimately doesn't matter as much, what does matter is that the player is engaged properly. Which means that individual quests should not be too long, rather more diverse quests then single very long grindy quests.

Of course as soon as you are on an alt, or the second alt, everyone might prefer faster leveling, since you already did most of this once or twice, at which point it'll get boring no matter what you do.

[Big Thanks]

How about all of the above.

Leveling should be fun no matter if you do it alone or in a group. Especially if you are starting out, you don't immediately have a group, so solo should be perfectly fine. Many people also prefer to quietly level their alts solo, as a contrast to group activites at max level, "relaxing" if you will. At the same time, leveling should properly handle grouping up, so no bottlenecks from collecting stuff with more then one person, and stuff liket hat.

Speed - that is a tricky topic to address. I would argue that the speed ultimately doesn't matter as much, what does matter is that the player is engaged properly. Which means that individual quests should not be too long, rather more diverse quests then single very long grindy quests.

Of course as soon as you are on an alt, or the second alt, everyone might prefer faster leveling, since you already did most of this once or twice, at which point it'll get boring no matter what you do.

I was thinking (maybe) equipping Heirlooms unlocking the "easy mode" leveling and making everything faster.
And the "new players" would invite you to their group if they saw you wearing Heirlooms...because they know you would 3 shot mobs or something like that.

Just a random idea :S

[edw]

Group play should be encouraged and zone level can be like in bfa. I think they need to shift the story arc of a character, now we are all promoted like champions, the savior, superman etc, they should change it to an adventurer story arc. More like a soldier in his faction then a superhero.

Mobs should hit a bit harder but not like in classic/vanilla, that should be it's own thing. No need to drink after each kill.
The quest bosses, idk like Hogger should require a group and be like an accomplishment when you kill him, a good xp boost and a nice item.

[MasterHamster]

People seem to believe that making things smooth and easy will keep players hooked. To some extent that is true, but if you don't pose some danger then the experience falls into comatose boredom.

This is a long time ago now, but it's an example I've mentioned in a similar topic before;
I was leveling a warrior, and was pretty much just obliterating in my path as usual. My healthbar barely moves, I don't care about health potions, stat buffs or anything, because I am already way overpowered compared to everything around me. This is around the level 25 range iirc.

But as I was taking a "shortcut", I accidentally pulled two red-level mobs (I miss you, mob levels), and that made me wake up from this easiness-induced slumber. Suddenly I was in some sort of "danger", my health was falling pretty rapidly, I had to use a potion, a lucky crit may have been the reason I survived, as I was able to kill one pretty quickly so I could focus down the other. I just barely survived, and it was exhilirating, even if it was just a random lowbie experience.

The leveling process has become a necessary-evil, WoW is now so focused on maxlevel, play-the-patch mentality that the only reason leveling is still in the game is because it kinda has to be, but every design decision regarding leveling seems to be about making it faster, and easier. This just compounds the problem.
If mobs are too easy, you don't appreciate gear upgrades, or stat buffs, or other class' buffs.
If you level up too quickly, what you gain becomes obsolete so quickly.

In short:
Yes, mobs do need to become harder, because they are now complete pushovers.
Mob scaling has it's benefits, but ultimately the loss of mob levels ruins too much.
Mob scaling, coupled with too-easy mobs, creates a constant: You are always overpowered. That is not fun.

[Lei]

How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

A couple questions if you would like to answer.
If not, create your own perfect leveling experience to New Players.

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

1) Solo, with some satisfying group quests that give great reward. (Tho, it wouldn't work in a scaling world I think). We have PLENTY of group content on max level.
2) I hate this. Ok, don't hate but I'm not fan. I know why it's been implemented, I just don't like it. I am fine with it with alts, but my main experience should be unscaled imo. So current content is not scaled, converted into scaling world with the next expansion
3) Depends. I'm sure there were all sorts of tinkerings with how much quests require from the players. So if now a quest says kill 12 mobs, it's fine. But if mobs were to hit harder, and had more health, please don't ask me to kill 12 of them and pretend it's the same.
4) Honestly, don't care.
5) CRZ should not exist in wow (probably not in other games either but I only care for wow). Merge realms, do whatever but CRZ people might as well be NPCs/bots (bots by blizzard). If you see someone in the world, you should be able to invite them into your guild, or trade anything to them. Otherwise they are but decorations.

[ophion1990]

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

-I don't think it's nescessarily needed to promote group content, with how mob tagging works now. I do think that, at the very least, you shouldn't struggle with completing quests, just because there are 3 people present in a single zone...

-Maybe? I don't think people'd love that, tbh. I think rethinking how high/low certain zones scale would be fine. IE, allow people to skip TBC and WotLK.

-It's difficult. Some classes are already significantly worse at leveling than others, so who do you balance it for? For example: rogue is already pretty shit at it, especially since some boss mobs don't allow you to start from stealth and others are immune to stuns and whatnot. Just like the quests with "helpers" inhibit you from stealth. So if mobs hit harder, make sure it's still fine for the classes who are already weaker at leveling, compared to DH, who just pull 10 mobs and eyebeams them down.

-No, it's better this way since it actually promotes people helping out one another, even if they're not nescessarily grouping up.

-See my first point. It'd be fine if a bunch of quests didn't feel god awful when there are a lot of people around. The peon quest in the orc starting zone, for example, enjoy running around like a headless chicken, hoping to get those 4-5 hits in. Not to mention a quest in Hillbrad or Arathi, where one uest is generally just terrible, even if you're doing it solo, because NPCs kill the mobs aswell and they have a very slow respawn timer.

Mobs should hit harder IF you don't make an effort to counter them. They should have strong interruptible abilities or multiple casts but be in places that allow for LoS. Some perhaps should be made to be easily kited. Strong PBAoE or targeted AoE you need to run out of. Projectiles and frontal cone attacks you can dodge. So a skilled player can pull multiple mobs and do well but a player that doesn't want to improve or pay attention will get destroyed if they overpull.

Yeah, that'd be fair. Give people the chance to dodge the hard hits, so everyone has to dodge them, instead of just hard hitting mobs, which'll only screw over specific classes.

[Zantera]

Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)
I think a balance is good. Like the Nesingwary quests for example, you can do many of them solo but then you get to the end and have to take down a bigger beast, it's nice if you need another 2 people to do it. I kinda miss those "elite" quests because even if it took time finding a few other players through general chat, it felt rewarding once you handed them in. So little bit of both solo and group I'd say.

Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)
I can see why some people dislike scaling as it doesn't feel like you get stronger because the world scales with you. But on the other hand, it is nice being able to quest through a zone and actually finish it, without out-leveling it and having to move on. Maybe they could add an option for either? Kinda like how you toggle war mode on or off you could have "old world" or "new scaling". I don't think there's an easy answer though because if you want to keep it the way the old world was and you want to be able to finish questing in the zone that means you have to remove heirlooms or nerf XP gain a lot and I don't think either is a good solution.

Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)
I would be all for a more dangerous outside world for sure. Being able to pull 4-5-6 mobs without dying does make the experience less exciting and you enter "autopilot"-mode while leveling. I also believe that if leveling is harder and you need to use your brain while leveling we'll also get better players at max level who have learned interrupting and stunning/CCing along the way because it made their leveling easier.

Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)
Nah to be honest I thought it was kinda annoying.

Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)
I kinda miss the old server community but I don't really have a strong opinion on this topic. I've currently been leveling a new char and I feel like I still see a healthy amount of other players in the world.

[Shinrael]

First of all, i think if you want to design a good leveling experience, you first have to look at the mechanics already set in place.

I think it is hard to make something really good, without also changing some of the core ideas of the game. Like mobs hitting harder will make people not mass pull, but it will proberly make the solo experience worse. Alot of the world is also designed for quick combat and not long engagements, especially with classes that can heal, not really having mana problems anymore.

So with that out of the way, i think the answers can be answered:

1: It should be a SOLO experience, but group play should be encouraged. Give leveling bonuses for being in a group and being close together. Sure, people will just group up for the experience, but it will be an icebreaker for interactions.

2: Zones should stay as they are. The idea being pushed out of a zone because of your leveling speed, is one of the worst experiences with open world leveling.

3: Mobs can hit harder, but they don't have to. I would though love to see more boss mobs in the world, more abilities on mobs that deals a lot of damage, and maybe even create a mob-pummel ability to all mobs. So if you ever pull more than 3 adds, they will start to debuff you with dmg taken, or maybe increase their own dps. Any harder mobs should ofcourse be followed by increase in EXP.

4: I don't think the old tag system promoted much grouping other than supress solo players and classis without instant range attacks. There is nothing wrong with everybody being able to tag in on a mob.

5: I think all zones outside of the heavy PVP zones and end-game zones should be stacked with players. The more the better really, even to a point where they are swarmed.....Just for fun.


Aside from that, i would add some small "fun" features to the leveling zones.

- Zone Finish bonus: Finish a zone of quests/loremaster, get a big EXP reward and a movement speed buff for 10 min(for movement between zones.) Will help players stay in zones and see stories to the end. Also gives a nice boost in speed.
- An overall of Heirlooms: Heirlooms should not be gear, but merely a bonus for those slots in EXP gain and stats. So you still switch out gear, it just gets a bit more powerful and grants exp+ when you have aquired "Leather Shoulder Heirloom".
- Action Events: Just like Legion Invasions and BFA Incursions, all the old zones should also have special events going on. Grants conduits for players and allows some of the stories in the old zones to be a bit more active. Maybe even make it a questline, that pop ups and grants good EXP and some fun buffs/items.

A final thing, which is also the biggest thing, would be a return to the old talent system. Getting a level in current WoW is very anti-climatic, especially compared to all other MMOs like GW2, FF and especially old Wildstar. I think that talents, while not being a fix or something that beats other games, is a good step in the right direction and would simbolize the jouney of getting stronger.

Allow me to expand on your heirloom idea. I've had this in mind for years. Heirlooms should be what Azerite Gear is. Something you can obtain on your main and upgrade through grinding. Difference is it's account wide and the trait rings are reverse. Your first ring trait is the middle with only one option: +10% experience gained (maybe even ilvl boost for the item in that slot). This means that when you get a new item in the world while levelling your alt you can select a variety of traits (10% bonus exp being a standard for all) and you can upgrade them to give you more choice of traits that change the gameplay and give you situational bonuses to make levelling new chats more fun.

And (OT) please make the levelling more difficult (damage-wise) and thought-provoking (mechanic-wise) already.

[SirBeef]

[QUOTE=Togabito;51306163]How Should the Leveling Experience be to New Players in 2019?

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? Solo, with groups for elite mobs quests like it has always been.
• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? Everything should except current expansion. Let the player choose where to go and skip what they want.
• Should mobs hit hard? No unless they are elite. More should if you are undergeared, pulling above your level range, or low on resources/health.
• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction Faction tags except for quest mobs and rares.
• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? Never really cared to see tons of players in a game even as a new player. So I'm indifferent.

I think the leveling experience is fine. For starters, If a new player buys the current expansion, they get a free boost to be in the action right away which is great. If not there are plenty of people around and with scaling and adventure boards, you are never really lost at where to go. I do think all zones outside current expansion should scale, maybe 1-60 on Vanilla zones, then 60-110( or current starting expansion level) should scale from 60. Either way, leveling is a cakewalk.

For mobs, even in Vanilla you could take on multiple mobs if 1, you knew what you were doing, 2, were pulling greens/yellows. More often you had people try to take on way too much. Try to take on oranges/reds while undergeared and underleveld for the zone then say how difficult leveling was. It was only hard if you made it hard on yourself. I said it before and I'll say it again, I soloed Hogger, a level 11 elite that hit like a truck, as a level 10 Holy Paladin. I soloed Volchan, a level 60 elite, at 59 on the same character. I could solo the Blood of Heores elites. But I had gear, knew my class, and was prepared. New players today are not equipped with heirlooms, and do not know all the ins and outs or the game, and would more than likely get frustrated if regular mobs are killing them easily.

[Fred Skinner]

• Should leveling promote a SOLO or a GROUP experience? (in your perfect world, which one is best?)

It should be optional. You could either play in a group or solo. That would include difficulty levels. You would not gain better rewards for playing on a higher difficulty, tho, just more rewards. As like more gold and more crafting items.

• Should all the zones be scaled to player level? (no more low-high level mobs/zones)

Yes. Also, questing complete zones should be replayable. You could reset a zone, and you would relevel it for a major reward.

• Should mobs hit hard? (if you pull 2-3 mobs you die)

Optionally. You should be able to select a difficulty level.

• Should mobs be tagged even for your own faction (oldschool tag system to promote grouping)

On easy mode, mobs should not be taggable in the "old school" style, but yes on difficult mode.

• Should CRZ make the low level zones full of people on purpose? (so new players feel at home)

The hard difficulty should be limited to the realm. The easy difficulty should be shared.