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  1. #21
    If anything, they should scrap everything and make completely new rotations. But that is not going to happen. Basically any change they make at this point will piss people off.

  2. #22
    Why would you wanna scrap all rotations and make new ones if ALL of the current ones are perfectly fine? All they need some utility and fun spells to create an illusion of a choice as it was in Vanilla and that's it. There's no need to change all classes again from the ground.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i want the game to move forward. New specs, talents and skills. Everything that has been pruned is old useless abilities. Shit no one used. We need new stuff
    Just want to point out that my favourite spec iterations in the game no longer exist. I loved Cata style Survival Hunter with explosive shot and black arrow. MoP/WoD Demonology is hands down my favourite spec of all time.

    I would be very happy to play these two specs again, despite knowing it will never happen.
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  4. #24
    the old talents where shit and we don't want them. going 5 levels in a row getting 1% hit rating per level aint fun, 3 levels in a row and increaseing the duration of a dor by 0.2 sec per talent aint fun. Its not changing anything. You still had the same cookie cutter specs. you had no choice and its mostly filler talents. Why do you think blizzard changed it in the first place ? cause everyone was super happy about them and they worked just fine ?

    I think they were onto something in wod where when you leveled, your skill got morphed a bit. Draenor perks. Maybe even look into eso's skill morph system. Morph your shadow bolt into either regain some mana on hit or add some splash dmg. Things like this. But would probably be hell to implement and balance

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kudos View Post
    Just want to point out that my favourite spec iterations in the game no longer exist. I loved Cata style Survival Hunter with explosive shot and black arrow. MoP/WoD Demonology is hands down my favourite spec of all time.

    I would be very happy to play these two specs again, despite knowing it will never happen.
    when it comes to hunter. Which had 3 ranged specs. i think the best course of action there would have been to make the new survival melee spec a 4th spec. Not change it entirely like they did.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kudos View Post
    MoP/WoD Demonology is hands down my favourite spec of all time.

    I would be very happy to play these two specs again, despite knowing it will never happen.
    And this is why there will be no point when all specs will be appealing to everyone because I consider MoP/WoD demonology to be absolute garbage, and current demo for me is The best spec I have ever played - first one that made me switch my main. Since MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chipnuts View Post
    A second thought was if they should bring back some of the old specs that were instead replaced with the current versions, such as ranged Survival and old Combat. Ranged survival, based on my experience, was far different from any of the current specs Hunter has. Druid was given a fourth spec for Guardian, so why can't the same be done for Rogue, but especially for Hunter? Much of ranged Survival's toolkit was disbursed to the other specs and have gone unused, such as Explosive Shot and Black Arrow, so there's a lot of potential for recreating a pet-less, dot-based hunter again.
    Why?

    I mean that's what I'm not seeing here.

    Any actual rationale or reasoning. "They should do X because Y". You seem to going with "They should do X" and assuming it's self-evident as to why, but it really, really isn't.

    You then talk about a "pet-less, dot-based hunter". That's not really ever been a thing in WoW. I'm sure there was some expansion where you could have no pet and be entirely reliant on DoTs, but that's not what most people think of when they think of the old "ranged Survival". And again, there's no "Why". Similarly with "old Combat". What is it you think it offers that modern Outlaw doesn't? I can't even, off-hand, think of any abilities old Combat had that Outlaw doesn't (at least in some form).

    Why would we want to bring back "old specs"? You need a reason. Every spec added to the game makes the game incrementally harder to balance, harder to itemize, harder to develop for. There has to be an upside or it's just wasting development resources. And you've described no upside.

    I don't think we need any more specs right now. A smarter move might be to look at bringing in some of the abandoned stuff from the Artifact weapons as things that are part of the actual spec (about 80% of it was abandoned entirely for most classes). They also need to have a think about what talents are for, given that, yes, in most cases, one talent is clearly preferable to the other two for most content.

    I guess TLDR is I don't think Blizzard should do stuff "just becuz". They should carefully consider why they're doing things and keep their eye on making the game more fun and engaging at all levels, rather than adding stuff for the sake of adding it, or cutting it for the sake of cutting it.

  7. #27
    Bloodsail Admiral TheVaryag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i want the game to move forward. New specs, talents and skills. Everything that has been pruned is old useless abilities. Shit no one used. We need new stuff
    No, It's shit people had use for but Blizzard are too dumb to realize that. How in the fudge is removing abilities like Divine Intervention, Totems, Auras, Poisons for all rogues, all schools of spells for all mages (Instead of being a FIRE mage I'd like to be a MAGE who specializes in FIRE but hasn't forgotten how to do Frost or Arcane all of a sudden). You should feel growth, that's right, moving forward right? Then how Is removing abilities we've had and gotten used to since the start a good thing.

    Pruning can be good, but the kind Blizzard have been doing in MoP, WoD, Legion and BfA are REALLY REALLY BAD. It was still handable in Cata but after that, It just got worse and worse. Even now, all this power we gain with Azerite Armor and shit we will loose In the next expansion replaced with a legendary nipple piercing ring that we can upgrade and put more "Artifact Power" Into, instead of you know, the good old gear progression.

    So don't tell me that pruning is good In this case, we lost good abilities that Blizzard had NO IDEA how to make synergize together and so they removed them, that's it.

    You are right we have to move forward, get new abilities, talents and everything. But for that to be done Blizzard has to do what they do best, copy and paste and then make better. Let them look at Final Fantasy 14 and how the classes work and synergize there perfectly. I'd also say go look at Elder Scrolls Online but the combat there is abit specific to the game and Isn't the strong suit of the game, and still It's not -that- bad. And I'm not going to suggest Guild Wars 2 or any similar game, I don't want WoW to turn Into a non-tab combat based game which is what I think Blizzard is trying to do with Monks and Demon Hunters having such mobility that It pales in comparison to normal classes.
    Last edited by TheVaryag; 2019-06-16 at 07:00 PM.
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  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Why would we want to bring back "old specs"? You need a reason.
    Because people loved ranged Survival, me being one of them. I'm not saying they never should have introduced melee Survival, but why take away the ranged version when we have a class with 4 specs (druid)? Also, this game is already melee heavy. What reason did they have for replacing a perfectly fine ranged spec with a melee version instead, while also adding a new class that is strictly melee?

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    i want the game to move forward. New specs, talents and skills. Everything that has been pruned is old useless abilities. Shit no one used. We need new stuff
    couldn't be more wrong congrats.
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TheVaryag View Post
    No, It's shit people had use for but Blizzard are too dumb to realize that. How in the fudge is removing abilities like Divine Intervention, Totems, Auras, Poisons for all rogues, all schools of spells for all mages (Instead of being a FIRE mage I'd like to be a MAGE who specializes in FIRE but hasn't forgotten how to do Frost or Arcane all of a sudden). You should feel growth, that's right, moving forward right? Then how Is removing abilities we've had and gotten used to since the start a good thing.
    Some things has been removed that maybe shouldn't. but take the rogue poison. What would the point of poisons be for a outlaw rogue ? in assassination your abilities play into poisons. Envenom increase your poison application chance by 30% which means if you play it right, it interacts with the poison and you get higher dps. but outlaw, its just a passive dmg increase. if that dmg is baked into other skills. it simply won't matter.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Lack of skill. Really dude. Really. You thinking every skill and ability that was removed had a place in a rotation is a better reflection of your skills, or lack there off. + You just want to complain for the sake of complaining
    nah hes right, if u thought they were useless and no one used them u are honestly just fucking trash. get me a pruned ability that was useless, not even underwater breathing was useless, used it to counter purge spams. just because all uve ever done is raid at a shit tier level and nothing else doesnt mean the rest of us havent raided top end and gotten glad titles.

  12. #32
    Legendary! Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Everything that has been pruned is old useless abilities. Shit no one used.
    Tell that to emancipate, every ret paladin used that, regularly, and auras, that were used by every paladin all the time, and yes, were very useful. To call every pruned ability useless is a flat out lie, many of them were used all the fucking time.

    but take the rogue poison. What would the point of poisons be for a outlaw rogue ? but outlaw, its just a passive dmg increase.
    Versatility. Poisons did more than just damage. They dispelled enrage effects, applied healing debuffs, provided a snare... and the rogue had to evaluate their poison choices depending on the fight to get the most out of them.

    I'm guessing you're just a PvE player, and not a very good one if you never once used anesthetic poison back when it existed, or used wound poison on a boss/add that had heals.

    Or, maybe, you just never played a rogue at all, so you actually don't know what the hell you're talking about.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2019-06-16 at 10:33 PM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    And this is why there will be no point when all specs will be appealing to everyone because I consider MoP/WoD demonology to be absolute garbage, and current demo for me is The best spec I have ever played - first one that made me switch my main. Since MoP, WoD, Legion, BfA.
    They don't need to be for everyone. If they re-added MoP/WoD Demo as a new spec and you hate it, what's the big deal? The ideal would be you both get what you want and can play what you want to play. You like the current spec and that's great, but that other guy isn't allowed to play the spec he likes any more and he's just asking for it back.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Some things has been removed that maybe shouldn't. but take the rogue poison. What would the point of poisons be for a outlaw rogue ? in assassination your abilities play into poisons. Envenom increase your poison application chance by 30% which means if you play it right, it interacts with the poison and you get higher dps. but outlaw, its just a passive dmg increase. if that dmg is baked into other skills. it simply won't matter.
    Um... you don't play rogue do you?

    Poisons used to be able to be applied to each weapon separately so you might use, say, Deadly/Wound (if you were PVPing and wanted to hamper healing in Arena) or Deadly/Crippling or, hell, even Crippling/Wound in other PVP scenarios. You might want to do this even if you were Combat (now Outlaw).

    But your reply indicates the problem - you view it as all about damage rather than secondary things that classes could do in order to help.

    Finally, it's just silly to pretend rogues know all about poison in one spec but suddenly forget that if they respec. It's like a mage knowing about Fire spells.... and then completely forgetting that if the spec Frost. We play CLASSES... not just specs. Specs should enhance our base class knowledge in an area, not make us forget everything but that area.

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans MrKnubbles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrash View Post
    I want one handers for fury BACK
    Right? Is that too much to ask? I've never been on board with Fury wielding two two-handers. Arms was the slow, heavy, two-hander spec while Fury was the fast, dual-wielding, one-hander spec.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Niroshi View Post
    They don't need to be for everyone. If they re-added MoP/WoD Demo as a new spec and you hate it, what's the big deal? The ideal would be you both get what you want and can play what you want to play. You like the current spec and that's great, but that other guy isn't allowed to play the spec he likes any more and he's just asking for it back.
    Then we would end up having over 9000 specs because at some point someone liked previous iteration. OR have a spec-less class with take-buttons-you-like talents. Which will end up being boiled down to 2-3 specs because its best.

    Tho the latter solution could do the trick. There is a private server where you can build your own class, its called project-ascension, the only private server i wanted to try out - because that would be completely new concept.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MrKnubbles View Post
    Right? Is that too much to ask? I've never been on board with Fury wielding two two-handers. Arms was the slow, heavy, two-hander spec while Fury was the fast, dual-wielding, one-hander spec.
    I'd like to third this. I'd even settle for the ability to xmog 2h to 1h

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    I need a deep customization talent system T_T its all i do in MMO's
    Its the one thing that gives me strenght to play the game longer than usual.

    But i have low expectations at this point
    I agree with this.
    Deep costumization or at least different ways for me to play a spec and try out different builds/gear sets.
    There was a time I used to farm for a crit spec only so I could use a specific Shadow Priest build properly.

  19. #39
    This is modern blizzard, they are just going to reduce the number by levels by 50% and increase the required xp by 300% just to sell more level boosts.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chipnuts View Post
    Because people loved ranged Survival, me being one of them. I'm not saying they never should have introduced melee Survival, but why take away the ranged version when we have a class with 4 specs (druid)? Also, this game is already melee heavy. What reason did they have for replacing a perfectly fine ranged spec with a melee version instead, while also adding a new class that is strictly melee?
    I don't see much evidence to support this claim. Or rather, I'm sure someone loved it. Someone loves every terrible spec, or more often, claims they love it, and doesn't actually play it. But how many someones matters, and Survival was never a popular spec before it went melee. Even on the very rare occasions it wasn't subpar, it was less popular than other specs (I can think of one time it was briefly second most popular but generally its resolutely been third, and often a distant third). Further you claimed ranged Survival was petless, which has not generally been true.

    So "at least one person claimed to enjoy petless ranged Survival!" which is what your argument appears to be, is not a good or convincing argument for complicating balancing and interfering with other specs.

    You present no argument for old Combat at all I note. I presume you accept that there's nothing it had that Outlaw doesn't.

    I mean, if we're going to ask for rando shit back, what about old Retribution. I enjoyed Seal of Casino, why should we bring back ranged Survival but not that? Modern Ret is as different from Vanilla Ret as modern Marks is from Vanilla Survival.

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